Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

Are they giving Astrazeneca to the remaining over 70's who still need a first dose?

There are so few of them left to get their first dose, they wouldn't be saving many doses that way. I doubt too that they would try mixing vaccines between dose 1 and 2 with this cohort. And it would be tough on the few left in that category, who have had to wait longer thn many for their first jab, to be told now that they're going to have a 12 week gap until they're fully vaccinated. I can see the logic, but I doubt it will happen.

snotboogie

12.5k vaccines administered on Monday. Even with the AZ issues that's a hugely disappointing number

RavenBea17b

lbj666 wrote: »

I haven't seen anything statistically yet to suggest that the risk of serious illness death from AZ is greater than from Covid in younger cohorts, maybe in circumstances of low exposure but people can forget about that now as society starts to open up, higher incidence levels of the virus will be tolerated in the health service while we are in a transistionary period to herd immunity if it even gets to it.

But lets say for argument the risk of serious illness/death is the same very very rare for either side but still.

Well here your tie breakers

Potentially Being proper sick up for a few weeks
Long covid messing you up for even longer
The terror of not having your sense of taste for a while wondering if it would come back.
Isolating for 2 weeks 10 days (ie having to stay home from the job they havent been able to do for the past 12 months)
Living like a hermit to absolutely avoid any potential for this.

vs a rough 24 hours or
rare side effects such as the dizzys enlarged lymph node, ab pain sweating (all symptoms similar to covid symptoms )

The AZ Vacine or any other , wins on goal difference, goals scored, head to head etc etc. by a very clear margin.

Besides the AZ vacine is not earmarked for younger groups anyway, which provides even more comfort and assurance.

I havent even mentioned the benefits of reducing transmission or the overall goal of ending this bloody thing.

Additional long Covid effects include higher risk of blood clots, multiple organ failures.
Research is showing, that those, who have had Covid, but not hospitalised or symptom's that were not too bad, are also experiencing long term effects, some worse than the Covid effects they had at the time.
These are being investigated.
I'll take AZ, Jansen, Pfizer , whatever. Knowing the potential side effects, we can watch out for them ever.

vienne86

snotboogie wrote: »

12.5k vaccines administered on Monday. Even with the AZ issues that's a hugely disappointing number

And the pausing of the AZ clinics only kicked in yesterday, didn't it?

Wolf359f

vienne86 wrote: »

And the pausing of the AZ clinics only kicked in yesterday, didn't it?

Yup, gonna be a depressing front on vaccine numbers this week. Why they didn't do a separate risk analysis on cohort 4 & 7 and see if the risk of covid far outweighs AZ rare side effect.

Hurrache

TanookiMario wrote: »

You could almost just laugh at the whole sorry situation.

A few months ago we were battering "anti-vaxxers" from pillar to post.

I'd still batter any anti-vaxxer from pillar to post, and back again. And on the way, give anyone trying to make such a tentative link a slap in the chops.

1huge1

Presumably we are just building up a sizeable amount of vaccines at the moment then?

Le Bruise

Folks getting their second dose of Moderna today (mid 70's, West Cork). They're both delighted and excited and can't wait to go on the lash with their mates!:)

PhilOssophy

This thread is an interesting read, but its turning into "why didn't they do A, B and C", when if they had done A, B and C they would have been criticised for not doing D, E, and F.
While my opinion of the HSE as an organisation is probably the lowest of any organisation in Ireland, I have no doubt that those involved in the vaccine rollout do want to be cautious.
We've had 1 bad week on the vaccine front, largely through no fault of our own. While we can surmise that the probabilities are low for these vaccines, that decision shouldn't be made in haste. We don't need ad-hoc on the fly decisions on these things, many of the most vulnerable are now vaccinated and a pause of a few days is neither here nor there.
I am absolutely sure that AZ and J&J haven't stopped production - so once the green light is given to start again, the numbers will catch up again in days.
Our media are just hysteria merchants and if those making the decisions were given a chance to breathe, instead of having a media ready to pounce on even the slightest mis-communication, I am sure people would be better off for it.

ACitizenErased

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They aren't peddling anything. 6 confirmed cases out of 6.8million doses so far. They were specifically asked were there cases under investigation and didn't rule it out.

Right, you know better.

Micky 32

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1382259410601410562?s=21

lbj666

Micky 32 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1382259410601410562?s=21

Seasonal affects and getting to the bottom of the wave they had while the vacines were being rolled out are contributing to this along with segregation measures (not the geo political type for once) , but its still an amazing result for just 60% of the population jabbed. They are struggling get more supply to finish everything off by the sounds of it , so it will be curious to see if this is maintained.

Le Bruise

Micky 32 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1382259410601410562?s=21

Dare we dream that herd immunity is met at 60% rather than 75/80%??

is_that_so

Le Bruise wrote: »

Dare we dream that herd immunity is met at 60% rather than 75/80%??

We're a long way from any of those numbers!

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Right, you know better.

Exact wording from joint FDA/CDC statement

As of April 12, more than 6.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson (Janssen) vaccine have been administered in the U.S. CDC and FDA are reviewing data involving six reported U.S. cases of a rare and severe type of blood clot in individuals after receiving the J&J vaccine. In these cases, a type of blood clot called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) was seen in combination with low levels of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia). All six cases occurred among women between the ages of 18 and 48, and symptoms occurred 6 to 13 days after vaccination. Treatment of this specific type of blood clot is different from the treatment that might typically be administered. Usually, an anticoagulant drug called heparin is used to treat blood clots. In this setting, administration of heparin may be dangerous, and alternative treatments need to be given.

No where does it say there are definitely only 6 cases from the 6.8 million doses. For one thing, up to yesterday they were vaccinating large numbers every day, so many of the 6.8 million would have been jabbed in the past 13 days. All reports would not have been compiled by yesterday either.
I dont believe its a massive issue, but it cannot be concluded that there are only 6 cases form all 6.8million doses. May turn out to be 8 10, 12 or even 4 . Dont know yet.

What we do know is once awareness of the potential condition with the AZ vaccine was raised more cases were identified.

In theory though, the J&J vaccine uses a human Adenoviros that it is likely most of us have been previously exposed to. The AZ is a Chimpanzee virus that we haven't - I wonder could this be why the AZ has more adverse immune responses?

Hmmzis

Some pre-clinical data on the booster shots from Moderna:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.13.439482v1.full.pdf+html

They work well, even the original one works well. The B.1.351 booster works best if primed with the current vaccine, on its own it's less broad than the current one. The multivalent shot seems to work well across all variants.

Given these very preliminary findings (in mice) I guess the best two options might be:

1. Give the multivalent shot to all new vaccinees (good in high prevalence scenarios)
2. Prime with current vaccine, boost later with the B.1.351 version if deemed necessary (better use of existing vaccine doses if prevalence is low).

Le Bruise

is_that_so wrote: »

We're a long way from any of those numbers!

I know that....but we'd reach 60% a hell of a lot quicker than 80%

MerlinSouthDub

Good news - Pfizer/Biontech to beat EU Q2 delivery target! No specifics on much they might beat the target by, but good to hear something positive.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/pfizer-biontech-on-track-to-beat-second-quarter-eu-vaccine-goal

ACitizenErased

Le Bruise wrote: »

Dare we dream that herd immunity is met at 60% rather than 75/80%??

Israel's assumption is 15% infected + 60% vaccinated = ~75% immune

SJFly

It will be very interesting to watch UK figures compared to Israel, with the different mix of vaccines. Of course there are lots of other variables, be we can certainly learn a lot from the counties coming out of this ahead of us.

ACitizenErased

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Good news - Pfizer/Biontech to beat EU Q2 delivery target! No specifics on much they might beat the target by, but good to hear something positive.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/pfizer-biontech-on-track-to-beat-second-quarter-eu-vaccine-goal

Fantastic. Was expecting this because they announced it in the US yesterday.

Le Bruise

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Good news - Pfizer/Biontech to beat EU Q2 delivery target! No specifics on much they might beat the target by, but good to hear something positive.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/pfizer-biontech-on-track-to-beat-second-quarter-eu-vaccine-goal

Pfizer is the gift that keeps on giving

is_that_so

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Good news - Pfizer/Biontech to beat EU Q2 delivery target! No specifics on much they might beat the target by, but good to hear something positive.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/pfizer-biontech-on-track-to-beat-second-quarter-eu-vaccine-goal

Interesting comment in there on J&J pause by the FDA - a matter of days!

Le Bruise

Le Bruise wrote: »

Dare we dream that herd immunity is met at 60% rather than 75/80%??

There are also those previously infected. Would be overlap between the vaccinated and previously infected, but almost 10% of the population have confirmed previous infection, actual could be double

ACitizenErased

We're expecting 2,128,000 Pfizer doses this quarter and now they are suggesting exceeding this 'significantly'. Even 10-20% extra (like they are exceeding in the US) would be incredible.

is_that_so

ACitizenErased wrote: »

We're expecting 2,128,000 Pfizer doses this quarter and now they are suggesting exceeding this 'significantly'. Even 10-20% extra (like they are exceeding in the US) would be incredible.

A learning moment there for AZ, underpromise and massively overdeliver!

1huge1

Deleted User wrote: »

There are also those previously infected. Would be overlap between the vaccinated and previously infected, but almost 10% of the population have confirmed previous infection, actual could be double

True, but there hasn't been any exemption for people who had previously had covid from getting the vaccine, so makes it more difficult to get an exact picture, but fair to say it is less than the c.75% previously predicted which can only be good news.

ACitizenErased

Danish media reporting Denmark to stop using AstraZeneca vaccine entirely

funnydoggy

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Danish media reporting Denmark to stop using AstraZeneca vaccine entirely

Feck sake :rolleyes:

noplacehere

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Danish media reporting Denmark to stop using AstraZeneca vaccine entirely

Ah Jesus. And what about people part ways through their dose? This is a mess