Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

revelman

Turtwig wrote: »

It's too early to tell yet as dosing interval for AZ is 3 months minimum. Data from the UK would suggest the more doses you get the greater your risk.

However, it's too early to draw any firm conclusion there.

I’m not familiar with that data. The MHRA has reported only 6 cases of clots after the second dose versus 242 after the first. While I agree with you, that we still need more time to figure this out because many people have not yet received their second dose, 18 million people have still received their second dose (a large proportion will be AZ).

In theory, at least, you’d expect that if a person tolerated the first dose (that is, their immune system didn’t overact), then they should tolerate the second dose. Six cases is so few - we can’t be sure that they wouldn’t have occurred in the population anyway.

crossman47

Charles Babbage wrote: »

There is a fundamental attitude in the HSE that taxpayers should wait for the convenience of its own operations.

Are you sure the problems weren't due to people turning up early and trying to jump the queue?

Has there been any suggestion that the reason AZ appears to result in more frequent issues than Janssnen may be down to the viral vector used? AZ used a chimp adenovirus and J&J a human one. Could the immune response to the chimp virus be more extreme because the immune system is far less likely to have encountered something similar in the past? Just a thought

Apogee

snotboogie wrote: »

Numbers were pretty slow coming out of a lot of European countries this week. Today is the first day I can put this together. We have firmly caught up in terms of pace with the rest of the EU but will still almost certainly be the last in Western Europe to hit 40 shots per 100 people. Malta seem to be heading in the same direction as Israel with case numbers. They are down to a 7 day average of 25 daily cases per million. On one hand its good news but on the other hand it emphasises how far we have to go to get there. Even the second best performer in Lithuania are really only halfway towards real suppression of case numbers via vaccination (as can be seen by their current case numbers). Headlines like the number one focus of government shifting from covid to housing seem very premature with this in mind and given we are still last in Western Europe for vaccines administered.

Country per capita Date Reported Ireland Days Behind
Malta 87.5 May 10th
Lithuania 44.5 May 11th 12
Cyprus 44 May 11th 11
Spain 43 May 10th 10
Germany 42.5 May 10th 8
Denmark 42 May 10th 9
Austria 41.5 May 11th 6
Italy 41 May 11th 5
Estonia 41 May 11th 5
Belgium 40.5 May 10th 4
Portugal 40.5 May 11th 4
Luxembourg 40 May 10th 4
Finland 39 May 10th 1
Sweden 39 May 11th 1
France 38.5 May 10th 1
Netherlands 38 May 9th 1
Ireland 38 May 10th 0
Poland 37 May 10th -3
Greece 37 May 11th -3
Slovenia 36 May 11th -5
Czech Rep 35.5 May 11th -6
Slovakia 35 May 11th -7
Romania 31.5 May 10th -13
Croatia 28 May 10th -20
Latvia 22.5 May 11th -32
Bulgaria 14.5 May 11th -48

One additional factor when comparing to other countries, we're doing well in targeting/prioritising the most vulnerable age groups:

Red Silurian

Deleted User wrote: »

Has there been any suggestion that the reason AZ appears to result in more frequent issues than Janssnen may be down to the viral vector used? AZ used a chimp adenovirus and J&J a human one. Could the immune response to the chimp virus be more extreme because the immune system is far less likely to have encountered something similar in the past? Just a thought

I can see your logic but remember there is blood clots associated with J&J as well. Also chimp adenovirus based vaccines are used in HIV (serotypes 3 and 63) and influenza (AdC68) vaccines without the same effects. So it's unlikely to be the "Chimp" factor and more of a general adenovirus based vaccine factor. It's for this reason that the EC claim that they are not renewing their contract with AZ or J&J

Scientific data at the moment suggests that it's simply down to how many vaccines are being distributed. Never in the history of humankind have vaccines been distributed on such a scale.

Charles Babbage

crossman47 wrote: »

Are you sure the problems weren't due to people turning up early and trying to jump the queue?

Increasing problems as the day goes on are not the cause of people jumping the queue, they are not processing them at the rate they are arriving.

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

I can see your logic but remember there is blood clots associated with J&J as well. Also chimp adenovirus based vaccines are used in HIV (serotypes 3 and 63) and influenza (AdC68) vaccines without the same effects. So it's unlikely to be the "Chimp" factor and more of a general adenovirus based vaccine factor. It's for this reason that the EC claim that they are not renewing their contract with AZ or J&J

Scientific data at the moment suggests that it's simply down to how many vaccines are being distributed. Never in the history of humankind have vaccines been distributed on such a scale.

But the frequency is higher with AZ and the issue is caused by an abnormal immune response.

Also, are the SARS-CoV2 vaccines using adenovirus viral vectors not the first widely distributed vaccines using an adenovirus vector?

revelman

Deleted User wrote: »

But the frequency is higher with AZ and the issue is caused by an abnormal immune response.

Also, are the SARS-CoV2 vaccines using adenovirus viral vectors not the first widely distributed vaccines using an adenovirus vector?

We really can’t say yet if the frequency is higher with AZ. See my previous post a page or two back.

Wolf359f

Flying Fox wrote: »

Yeah, the latest UK yellow card data shows six cases following a second dose. So it's happening, but as you say it's far too early to know if it's a similar risk level to the first shot.

There should be updated UK data coming this afternoon.

On the second doses, it's 6 from about 6 mil. So 1 in a million risk. Updated rate for their first dose is 10 per million. Remember when it all kicked off, they were saying the risk on first dose was something like 1 in a million. So the rate in the second doses can increase.

Last 3 updates on J&J by the CDC put the rates at:
0.9 per mil
1.9 per mil
3.2 per mil
obviously increasing over time due to the reporting delay and higher risk getting down into younger ages.

SusanC10

A poster over in the Travel thread "Are we there yet?" (Sorry - I can't seem to link) is suggesting that NIAC may recommend 1 dose only of Pfizer or Moderna for everyone aged under 50. Not just those who have had Covid previously.

Has any other Country done this ?

afro man

florawest wrote: »

Hi,

I registered last Saturday, having the Moderna vaccine today at 3 in Galway ����

Florawest


Lets us Know how you get on and hopefully no Side effects

Russman

SusanC10 wrote: »

A poster over in the Travel thread "Are we there yet?" (Sorry - I can't seem to link) is suggesting that NIAC may recommend 1 dose only of Pfizer or Moderna for everyone aged under 50. Not just those who have had Covid previously.

Has any other Country done this ?

Really ? Wow !! Has to be a wind up surely, given how conservative we’ve been so far and that we ruled out even spacing the doses by two extra weeks, no ?

astrofool

SusanC10 wrote: »

A poster over in the Travel thread "Are we there yet?" (Sorry - I can't seem to link) is suggesting that NIAC may recommend 1 dose only of Pfizer or Moderna for everyone aged under 50. Not just those who have had Covid previously.

Has any other Country done this ?

I'd be very surprised if that happens, it also doesn't really make much sense from a supply of vaccines point of view (i.e. by the time second doses come around there won't be any constraints).

Sounds like something being made up for those bursting to travel again (1 dose and 3 weeks later I fly!).

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

On the second doses, it's 6 from about 6 mil. So 1 in a million risk. Updated rate for their first dose is 10 per million. Remember when it all kicked off, they were saying the risk on first dose was something like 1 in a million. So the rate in the second doses can increase.

Last 3 updates on J&J by the CDC put the rates at:
0.9 per mil
1.9 per mil
3.2 per mil
obviously increasing over time due to the reporting delay and higher risk getting down into younger ages.

Indeed. Which is why I feel uncomfortable with the reports of NIAC potentially lifting the under 50 restriction (unless it is on an opt-in basis with the risks fully explained). As the data is updated, it is consistently showing the risks increasing, while covid risks are decreasing. It will be interesting to see the latest UK yellow card data this afternoon.

twiglet24

Supercell wrote: »

Very interesting to see in the Got a confirmed vaccine appointment -Post your age and appointment date thread that most if not all the 50's cohort are getting Pfizer or in one case so far the Moderna, small sample set of posters of course.

I wish it was the case! Where I am (Clare/Limerick border), AZ seems prevalent. My husband (58) got text for the AZ jab, but as he is cohort 4/7, thought he would cancel that in the hope that he would get a later appointment with Pfizer, or get Pfizer from the GP sooner. He got another text yesterday for an appointment today - again with AZ, so after much agonizing, he is going for that today. His main concern with it was that Pfizer was the recommended vaccine for cohorts 4 and 7.
I’m 57, registered the day after him and still waiting for an appointment. I’m crossing everything that it’s Pfizer as I’m immunocompromised, but when it comes to it, I will take what’s offered.

SusanC10

astrofool wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if that happens, it also doesn't really make much sense from a supply of vaccines point of view (i.e. by the time second doses come around there won't be any constraints).

Sounds like something being made up for those bursting to travel again (1 dose and 3 weeks later I fly!).

I would love to travel again which is why I am on that thread but that suggestion just seems far-fetched at the moment anyway.

SusanC10

twiglet24 wrote: »

I wish it was the case! Where I am (Clare/Limerick border), AZ seems prevalent. My husband (58) got text for the AZ jab, but as he is cohort 4/7, thought he would cancel that in the hope that he would get a later appointment with Pfizer, or get Pfizer from the GP sooner. He got another text yesterday for an appointment today - again with AZ, so after much agonizing, he is going for that today. His main concern with it was that Pfizer was the recommended vaccine for cohorts 4 and 7.
I’m 57, registered the day after him and still waiting for an appointment. I’m crossing everything that it’s Pfizer as I’m immunocompromised, but when it comes to it, I will take what’s offered.

Have you been in touch with the GP? Is it that s/he is not doing Cohort 4/7?

Turtwig

SusanC10 wrote: »

A poster over in the Travel thread "Are we there yet?" (Sorry - I can't seem to link) is suggesting that NIAC may recommend 1 dose only of Pfizer or Moderna for everyone aged under 50. Not just those who have had Covid previously.

Has any other Country done this ?

The real world evidence would support this. I'd favour this if it meant younger cohorts avoided the viral vectors. For vulnerable with medical risks they should get two doses.

TheDoctor

Are Tuesdays numbers out yet?

revelman

SusanC10 wrote: »

A poster over in the Travel thread "Are we there yet?" (Sorry - I can't seem to link) is suggesting that NIAC may recommend 1 dose only of Pfizer or Moderna for everyone aged under 50. Not just those who have had Covid previously.

Has any other Country done this ?

If I’m looking at the same post, that poster is referencing an article saying that people under 50 who have already had COVID will be considered fully vaccinated after just one dose. So I think the poster is just confused!

Lucas Hood

TheDoctor wrote: »

Are Tuesdays numbers out yet?

40,278 they were out early this morning.

SusanC10

revelman wrote: »

If I’m looking at the same post, that poster is referencing an article saying that people under 50 who have already had COVID will be considered fully vaccinated after just one dose. So I think the poster is just confused!

Yes, but if you continue you will see that I queried him on it and his reply about everyone under 50. Now, he is getting the info 2nd hand from a mate. But I was just curious if any other Country worldwide had done this.

revelman

Donnelly says Varadkar’s remarks yesterday were “ambitious”. These were the remarks about everyone being able to have a vaccine appointment by end of June.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-tánaiste-s-hope-for-all-to-be-offered-vaccine-by-end-of-june-very-ambitious-1.4564039

I wonder is there politicking going on between FG and FF?

TheDoctor

Lucas Hood wrote: »

40,278 they were out early this morning.

Cheers.

Looking like today is dose 2 million day.

Turtwig

revelman wrote: »

If I’m looking at the same post, that poster is referencing an article saying that people under 50 who have already had COVID will be considered fully vaccinated after just one dose. So I think the poster is just confused!

Ah dang. That seemed a viable solution for them not having to lower the age restriction.
Not sure how they're going to rationalise lowering it otherwise. They could always say no to the HSE. Or lay down very strict parameters for supply level incurred delays. There is always the risk that such parameters may create an administrative burden that delays the program further.

Sky King

revelman wrote: »

Donnelly says Varadkar’s remarks yesterday were “ambitious”. These were the remarks about everyone being able to have a vaccine appointment by end of June.

You would wonder why he said that. Sure it's easy to give someone an appointment by the end of June, if the dates for appointments go on until August!

Beanybabog

revelman wrote: »

Donnelly says Varadkar’s remarks yesterday were “ambitious”. These were the remarks about everyone being able to have a vaccine appointment by end of June.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-tánaiste-s-hope-for-all-to-be-offered-vaccine-by-end-of-june-very-ambitious-1.4564039

I wonder is there politicking going on between FG and FF?

That article links to another article saying we’re the most willing to get vaccinated in Europe! I hadn’t seen that.
That makes me a little bit proud. Someone very close to me is very vaccine hesitant and swore blind she wouldn’t get the AstraZeneca. Then AZ was given to her age group only and she’s been very upset and angry about it from the worry, saying she wasn’t getting it. But she got it. She did it because she felt she had to, not even for her own health concerns but because like everyone she wants the world back to normal. I’m proud of her. She’s still giving out about it, I’m glad so far she had no side effects or I’d never hear the end of it

Lucas Hood

TheDoctor wrote: »

Cheers.

Looking like today is dose 2 million day.

Micky Martin seems to think so.

https://twitter.com/MichealMartinTD/status/1392791192425963529?s=20

So likely another 2X ~40k days Wednesday and Today.

Strazdas

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Micky Martin seems to think so.

https://twitter.com/MichealMartinTD/status/1392791192425963529?s=20

So likely another 2X ~40k days Wednesday and Today.

Yes, they're going like the clappers at the moment : around 1% of the adult population are getting vaccinated every day.

snotboogie

Updated EU table for today:
Country per capita Date Reported Ireland Days Behind
Malta 89 May 11th
Lithuania 45.5 May 12th 9
Cyprus 45.5 May 12th 9
Spain 44 May 11th 8
Germany 44 May 11th 8
Denmark 43 May 11th 6
Italy 42 May 12th 4
Austria 41.5 May 11th 4
Belgium 41.5 May 11th 4
Portugal 41.5 May 12th 3
Estonia 41 May 11th 4
Luxembourg 41 May 11th 4
Finland 41 May 11th 4
France 39.5 May 11th 1
Sweden 39 May 12th 0
Netherlands 38.5 May 12th -1
Ireland 38.5 May 11th 0
Poland 38 May 11th -2
Greece 38 May 12th -2
Slovenia 37 May 12th -3
Czech Rep 36.5 May 12th -4
Slovakia 35 May 12th -6
Romania 32 May 11th -9
Croatia 28 May 11th -15
Latvia 23.5 May 12th -22
Bulgaria 15 May 12th -35