Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

amandstu

From today

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0514/1221627-virus-figures-latest/


"He said those in the 75 to 80 year old age group now have a 20% risk of being admitted to hospital from Covid-19". (Philip Nolan"

Did I get it wrong?

snotboogie

Evil_g wrote: »

I was just trying to help you answer why you haven't heard one media outlet bring up that we have the slowest rollout in Western Europe.

It's because they would look like idiots.

They would be right though... Technically Sweden dropped behind us this morning but we have been last in Western Europe every day for the past month before that. The rollout is not just the last 7 days, obviously...

Unicorn Milk Latte

Had the first AZ shot earlier this week, but it was the most bizarre experience.

First, the SMS invitation has a link to a pdf information leaflet. One of the most crucially important things to combat fear and uncertainty is to make sure to get the basic science right.


The information leaflet is over a year behind current science of how Covid spreads:

- it correctly addresses spread via large respiratory droplets (produced by coughing and sneezing) - that's what social distancing is for
- it gets spread from surface transmission wrong - virologists and epidemiologists have made clear statements since mid 2020 that, while virus fragments can be detected in lab conditions on surfaces, it is irrelevant for actual virus spread
- it ignores spread via aerosols (produced by breathing and speaking), which is most likely the most common, prevalent way the virus spreads


This lack of basic understanding is also obvious when you reach the vaccination site: large numbers of people gather in small, poorly ventilated, closed spaces, queuing for extended periods of time. With 2m distance - effective for large droplet transmission - but completely ignoring aerosol transmission.

For me personally, waiting inside the vaccination centre has been the single most risky situation I've been in for over a year.


Why not let people queue outside instead? Aerosols quickly disperse outside, and quickly accumulate inside. Similar to cigarette smoke.
Baffling.



Then you receive the shot, and the nurse tells you to take 2 paracetamol right away, and another two 2 hours later.

Virologists have been clear that no medication should be taken prophylactically, because it can reduce the efficacy of the vaccine.
Once the vaccine starts working, and you do get a headache, it is perfectly ok to take paracetamol. But not prophylactically.
And - 4 doses of paracetamol? I haven't taken that much paracetamol in a day even once in my life. What are they thinking??

Vaccinated30

TheWonderLlama wrote: »

Question for people;

how would you feel if a work colleague announced they were antivax and were not intending to get vaccinated before returning to work?
could work demand that an employee gets vaccinated?
could other workers refuse to come in if that person is working?

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

I wouldnt bat an eyelid. If I have the vaccine I don't care about anyone else and what they do or don't do.

Yes I know all the Ifs and what abouts but i don't live my life worrying about something that may never happen. The vaccines work, don't worry about others.

josip

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

... What are they thinking??

They probably had no idea who they were dealing with.

amandstu

Vaccinated30 wrote: »

I wouldnt bat an eyelid. If I have the vaccine I don't care about anyone else and what they do or don't do.

Yes I know all the Ifs and what abouts but i don't live my life worrying about something that may never happen. The vaccines work, don't worry about others.

What if you know the people who are going to be working with this person who hasn't had the vaccine and is behaving as if they had?

Will it all come out in the wash?

snotboogie

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Arbitrary country borders, and the relatives sizes of various countries shouldn't make difference at all to how quickly (per capita) a country can role out vaccines.

There is no reason to think it should be easier or harder for a smaller country to roll out the vaccines more quickly than a big country (with the same supply, per capita). Malta rolled them out quickly because it had lots of supply, not because it is small.

Anyway, it is disappointing to see us so far behind Germany. We should be aiming to be top of the tables, not mid table or below. But I think we will catch up significantly over the next week or so.

The borders aren't arbitrary because the rollout is defined by them. For the most part it's a central service who will be in charge of the administration, staff, logistics and issues within those borders. Its not just staff numbers. The HSE have an easier job than their German equivalent.

Vaccinated30

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Had the first AZ shot earlier this week, but it was the most bizarre experience.

First, the SMS invitation has a link to a pdf information leaflet. One of the most crucially important things to combat fear and uncertainty is to make sure to get the basic science right.


The information leaflet is over a year behind current science of how Covid spreads:

- it correctly addresses spread via large respiratory droplets (produced by coughing and sneezing) - that's what social distancing is for
- it gets spread from surface transmission wrong - virologists and epidemiologists have made clear statements since mid 2020 that, while virus fragments can be detected in lab conditions on surfaces, it is irrelevant for actual virus spread
- it ignores spread via aerosols (produced by breathing and speaking), which is most likely the most common, prevalent way the virus spreads


This lack of basic understanding is also obvious when you reach the vaccination site: large numbers of people gather in small, poorly ventilated, closed spaces, queuing for extended periods of time. With 2m distance - effective for large droplet transmission - but completely ignoring aerosol transmission.

For me personally, waiting inside the vaccination centre has been the single most risky situation I've been in for over a year.


Why not let people queue outside instead? Aerosols quickly disperse outside, and quickly accumulate inside. Similar to cigarette smoke.
Baffling.



Then you receive the shot, and the nurse tells you to take 2 paracetamol right away, and another two 2 hours later.

Virologists have been clear that no medication should be taken prophylactically, because it can reduce the efficacy of the vaccine.
Once the vaccine starts working, and you do get a headache, it is perfectly ok to take paracetamol. But not prophylactically.
And - 4 doses of paracetamol? I haven't taken that much paracetamol in a day even once in my life. What are they thinking??

You have never taken 4 paracetamol in one day.
2 tablets and then 2 tablets 4 hours later.
You must live a great life.
I take paracetamol every 4 hours and neurofen every 6 hours when I'm unwell.
Currently taking difene 3 times a day and 2 solpadeine every 4 hours and trust me I would take anything else I could to get rid of this back pain.

amandstu

josip wrote: »

They probably had no idea who they were dealing with.

Maybe as confused as the rest of us.(it is a very fast moving subject)

Not sure if it's been posted here yet, but looks like delaying the second dose of mRNA vaccine might actually increase peak antibody response

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2021/05/covid-pfizer-vaccination-interval-antibody-response.aspx

Small study of 175 people over 80

Vaccinated30

amandstu wrote: »

What if you know the people who are going to be working with this person who hasn't had the vaccine and is behaving as if they had?

Will it all come out in the wash?

I don't know why it's a concern.

josip

snotboogie wrote: »

Nobody is asking. They trumpeted that we were the best in Europe back in March when supplies were low for everyone and it has just been accepted that it's still true. Haven't heard one media outlet bring up that we have the slowest rollout in Western Europe.

Maybe it's the kind of thing that yer man Eric Feigel Ding would like to highlight?

amandstu

Vaccinated30 wrote: »

I don't know why it's a concern.

If you were unvaccinated and had to work with others who refused vaccination (in a confined environment) wouldn't you worry?(or just refuse to go to work)

snotboogie

josip wrote: »

Maybe it's the kind of thing that yer man Eric Feigel Ding would like to highlight?

Can't dispute the numbers so resorting to pure nonsense, classy

bodun

OwlsZat wrote: »

Have you been talking personally to any of these doctors? I have. Yes they want to work in the best teaching hospitals i.e., the ones where they are actually being taught. I live with a intern doctor and he most certainly does write letters on a daily basis. As mundane as letters to GPs to inform them their patient has been discharged, which should obviously be automated. He also spends huge amounts of time reviewing paper files for senior doctors reviewing patient histories looking for allergies to medicines etc., Love to hear why you think differently, can't wait to tell him he's living a lie.

Back on topic the news about the India variant and how ineffective vaccines are against it is very worrying. Is this as bad as it sounds?

I am working in and have worked in Hospital IT systems for the last 20 years in Ireland. What hospital does your friend work in?

Vaccinated30

amandstu wrote: »

If you were unvaccinated and had to work with others who refused vaccination (in a confined environment) wouldn't you worry?(or just refuse to go to work)

Well if I am unvaccinated I'm just as much a risk to the other person who is refusing a vaccine as they are to me.

Unicorn Milk Latte

josip wrote: »

They probably had no idea who they were dealing with.

Who they are dealing with is large numbers of scared people.

The whole spectrum from hard core conspiracy antivaxxers, to people with perfectly reasonable doubts about the Pharma industry.

A lot of the future - whether there will be further lockdowns, new variants becoming prevalent, etc., - will depend on how large the number of people who are not getting vaccinated is.


The best way to combat fear - and antivax sentiments - is to double down on the science, IMHO. That means, being clear, being precise, and clearly communicating current knowledge.


Obvious mistakes in basic science in widely communicated information leaflets erodes trust. If they get the basics wrong, what else did they get wrong?

Spiderman0081

snotboogie wrote: »

They would be right though... Technically Sweden dropped behind us this morning but we have been last in Western Europe every day for the past month before that. The rollout is not just the last 7 days, obviously...

But it’s not a logistical problem in Sweden. Its simply because there is such a low turnout for the vaccines in many areas.

josip

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Who they are dealing with is large numbers of scared people.

The whole spectrum from hard core conspiracy antivaxxers, to people with perfectly reasonable doubts about the Pharma industry.

A lot of the future - whether there will be further lockdowns, new variants becoming prevalent, etc., - will depend on how large the number of people who are not getting vaccinated is.


The best way to combat fear - and antivax sentiments - is to double down on the science, IMHO. That means, being clear, being precise, and clearly communicating current knowledge.


Obvious mistakes in basic science in widely communicated information leaflets erodes trust. If they get the basics wrong, what else did they get wrong?

A better way to combat fear would be to uninstall Facebook

The literature and people you are critical of; that would only be relevant for someone who had turned up to get their vaccine.
Have there been reports of people going to the MVCs and subsequently refusing to take the vaccine?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/world/baltimore-vaccine-countries.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/05/13/vaccine-johnson-johnson-shortage/

Baltimore Vaccine Plant’s Troubles Ripple Across 3 Continents
Millions of doses of Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine produced by Emergent BioSolutions have been held back in Europe, South Africa and Canada as a precaution.

During the previous week’s call, Jeff Zients, coordinator of the White House’s coronavirus task force, said more doses will be available once federal regulators clear use of Emergent’s Baltimore plant, according to a recording of the conversation obtained by The Washington Post.

While stressing that approval is up to the Food and Drug Administration, Zients said, “Everything we’re hearing is that it’s a matter of a week or two, and then there’s going to be a significant amount, because once it’s cleared, my understanding is that there’s a lot ready to go.”

Sounds like the J&J vaccines at Emergent will be cleared soon. Great news for the vaccination drive worldwide

ACitizenErased

Looks like we won't be getting vaccine figures for today and likely the weekend too
https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1393219963557658628?s=20

ShineOn7

'possibly the most significant cyber attack on the Irish State'

What kinda **** do cyber attacks on a country's medical online infrastructure during a pandemic?

Excuse the Journal link https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-cyber-attack-5436981-May2021/

Minister of State for Public Procurement and eGovernment Ossian Smyth told RTÉ’s News At One that the attack was not espionage, and that it was an international attack.

This is a very significant attack, possibly the most significant cyber attack on the Irish State.

He said that the motive is to encrypt private data, and threaten to publish the data if a ransom is not paid.

Indications from HSE and government representatives are that a ransom demand has not yet been made.

Unicorn Milk Latte

josip wrote: »

A better way to combat fear would be to uninstall Facebook

The literature and people you are critical of; that would only be relevant for someone who had turned up to get their vaccine.
Have there been reports of people going to the MVCs and subsequently refusing to take the vaccine?

Haha, agree on Facebook - it's a social media platform where people who like to spread misinformation can communicate with people who like to consume misinformation. The best misinformation source on the planet.


But, in addition to that, there could be more clear communication directly from relevant scientists - virologists and immunologists - to the people. Unfiltered by politicians.


The pdf leaflet I was referring to is the AZ vaccine information leaflet. Also available on the HSE website.

So, I would assume, people who are on the edge, not sure if they want to get vaccinated, might read it. Getting the basics right is really not much to ask.

But - to be fair - in general, vaccination info from HSE, and how the Irish government handled the pandemic, has been pretty good, especially compared to some other countries.

snotboogie

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

But it’s not a logistical problem in Sweden. Its simply because there is such a low turnout for the vaccines in many areas.

Ya, which further highlights the ineptitude of the HSE, as people are clamouring for the vaccine here yet we still have one of the slowest rollots per capita.

MerlinSouthDub

snotboogie wrote: »

The borders aren't arbitrary because the rollout is defined by them. For the most part it's a central service who will be in charge of the administration, staff, logistics and issues within those borders. Its not just staff numbers. The HSE have an easier job than their German equivalent.

That doesn't make sense at all. Germany devolves responsibility regionally, and each region then works out what it needs to do.

stephenjmcd

ShineOn7 wrote: »

What kinda **** do cyber attacks on a country's medical online infrastructure during a pandemic?

Excuse the Journal link https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-cyber-attack-5436981-May2021/

The lowest of the low

Cyber attacks are a daily thing, there'll have been a vulnerability somewhere, be it on a piece of software, someone's PC or wherever it might have been.

Most get blocled but this one managed to get through. Could have been as simple as someone clicking on a link

Luckily the HSE have backups

snotboogie

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

That doesn't make sense at all. Germany devolves responsibility regionally, and each region then works out what it needs to do.

No it doesn't. Germany worked out their vaccine plan centrally.

Deeper Blue

I assume this Indian variant will be like all the other big bad super scary killer mutant variants i.e. nobody will be talking about it in a months time.

amdaley28

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The lowest of the low

Cyber attacks are a daily thing, there'll have been a vulnerability somewhere, be it on a piece of software, someone's PC or wherever it might have been.

Most get blocled but this one managed to get through. Could have been as simple as someone clicking on a link

Luckily the HSE have backups

Hopefully ?

ACitizenErased

WHO advising to not vaccinate children and instead donate doses
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1393205449051287555?s=20