Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

ddarcy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its already the approach, 2 chances to change.

What's taking its time is the operational aspect and that's not surprising, sure they haven't got any computers to plan the whole thing out on. Sure HSE cold chain can't access their emails, everything is being done by pen and paper.

Until some basic IT function is restored in the HSE they won't be able to firm anything up

Not getting into AZ again tbh we've been around in circles discussing it. As I posted earlier a quick look at the numbers vaccinated with AZ v the delvieries would show that they'll be kicking off dose 2 in numbers shortly and AZ haven't ramped delvieries up to anything near that would give an excess outside of dose 2

It’s purely a harassment thing. They’ll give you two opportunities and then stop texting you. If you go through HSE live you’ll get put back on. Just be smart in what you say (eg timing didn’t work, need more notice, can’t get to vaccination centre, etc).

JRant

ddarcy wrote: »

It’s purely a harassment thing. They’ll give you two opportunities and then stop texting you. If you go through HSE live you’ll get put back on. Just be smart in what you say (eg timing didn’t work, need more notice, can’t get to vaccination centre, etc).

We are also getting into the groups of people that will find it difficult to make an appointment at short notice (1 day). I know I would with 2 young children, school runs, both parents working full time, and having no access to childminding at short notice.

Beanybabog

I think the opt in / pharmacy model would work. There are plenty of people here both willing to take the AZ/ J&J and plenty willing to wait- you don’t want a situation where you’re offering vaccines to people who are going to refuse and end up giving Pfizer to those who wouldn’t have. The safety of the vaccines is the most important thing but it doesn’t take into account the other reasons people have. I imagine there are plenty of 40-49 year olds who have vulnerable family or friends they want to see, have jobs where they can’t WFH, want to get a vaccine to travel to see family abroad, and would be happy to take the faster vaccine J&J based on their own circumstances

Lumen

Judging by the volume of posts this morning it seems that the vaccination programme is finally about to reach the most entitled cohort. :pac:

Gile_na_gile

It seems like the 40s are the new 50s and they now have the same dilemma of facing delays to the rollout unless they put us much of us lot in our 40s on the backburner for J&J and whatever is left of AZ. I agree strongly the best would be to make J&J available immediately to pharmacies and tell people that if they want to travel within a month that is what they need - go get it - while applying the same principle / precedent they set with the over 50s and just use what stocks we have. AZ is a hard sell with the gap, but at least J&J is the fastest of all and has fewer rare incidences of serious clotting.

Who knows? Perhaps we'll be here in a month with weeks of letter writing between NIAC, NPHET, HSE, and Gov and an opt-in for the over 30s... I doubt it but the decision-making has been too slow on this and now it is scuppered by the massive HSE DoH hacks. I would still expect them to do what they said on the radio this morning, opening registration later this week and start injecting before the end of the month.

stephenjmcd

Lumen wrote: »

Judging by the volume of posts this morning it seems that the vaccination programme is finally about to reach the most entitled cohort. :pac:

I've a sense of déjà vu. Rinse and repeat the same discussion that was had before the 50s opened up.

paw patrol

MrStuffins wrote: »

Do you think that if most of the country is vaccinated, that Covid will be reduced and the economy & society can open up once again?

I was against restrictions in the first place - I've thrashed this out in the other thread so not rehashing it.
So yes and no is the answer. I won't deny that so far covid vaccines look promising but I don't need it.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Do you have any loved-ones or friends who could be in mortal danger by passing Covid to them?

honestly I don't know to be sure.
but mortal danger no - bar my granny who is 101 and had covid (thanks nursing home/NPHET/Donnelly) and the only woe she had was her absolute fury that at 101 she could die anytime and her final days could be stuck in isolation devoid of her family. but we were doing it for her own good :rolleyes:

the reality people need to take their own risk assessments.
Of course, hit me up if covid is a bio weapon that causes my head to explode in 6 months and i was wrong all the time. I'll buy you a pint if that happens. :pac:

Of course I've some friends who are taking the vaccine cos they are fearful of it due to conditions. I believe their fear is over hyped but that's not my call only my opinion. that's for them to decide and deciding they are.
as well as the vaccine takers , some others are on fence and a few say only if it becomes mandatory.

revelman

Russman wrote: »

Its a very fine line they need to walk tbh. They can't run the risk of enough people saying "f-ck it" and refusing, because they'll never get to herd immunity. While, with our current supply levels, they can't really offer an open menu to people either.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the thing to do is put J&J into the pharmacies, let people in their 40s who want it, sign up and get it, and continue with the other vaccines in the MVCs. If you're called for an MVC appointment and you've had J&J in your pharmacy, just cancel the appointment.

I was predicting all along that this would the the approach, that J&J would go into pharmacies. This would align with the approach in Germany, for example. In Germany, Pfizer and Moderna are in the MVCs whereas GPs are stocked with AZ and J&J as well. AZ and J&J are now free to all ages in Germany. You go into your GP, he/she outlines the risks, and then you have given “informed consent” to take the vaccine,

Apparently, Colm Henry was on Newstalk just now confirming that NIAC has approved AZ and J&J for those in their forties. I missed it but saw a reference on Twitter.

is_that_so

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

It seems like the 40s are the new 50s and they now have the same dilemma of facing delays to the rollout unless they put us much of us lot in our 40s on the backburner for J&J and whatever is left of AZ. I agree strongly the best would be to make J&J available immediately to pharmacies and tell people that if they want to travel within a month that is what they need - go get it - while applying the same principle / precedent they set with the over 50s and just use what stocks we have. AZ is a hard sell with the gap, but at least J&J is the fastest of all and has fewer rare incidences of serious clotting.

Who knows? Perhaps we'll be here in a month with weeks of letter writing between NIAC, NPHET, HSE, and Gov and an opt-in for the over 30s... I doubt it but the decision-making has been too slow on this and now it is scuppered by the massive HSE DoH hacks. I would still expect them to do what they said on the radio this morning, opening registration later this week and start injecting before the end of the month.

They might have a few over 40s done just to justify the claim and get some some stats on the board but May is largely about the over 50s.

km79

Russman wrote: »

Purely hypothesising and speculating, but if, as Stephen mentioned earlier, the likelihood is that most of the AZ will go on second doses (seems reasonable), and there was some form of Opt In for J&J, I wonder what people in their 40s would do if the choice was J&J now or Pfizer in a week, month, two months etc ? Where would the line be ?
Not sure for me, would I wait a week for an mRNA ? Absolutely. Would I wait a month ? Probably not.

Same for me
Tbh if I am offered J and J I don’t even think I’d bother waiting . I’d just take it
AZ is a problem only in so far as I would be back at school before being fully vaccinated . I don’t want to be in that situation next September again.

km79

Lumen wrote: »

Judging by the volume of posts this morning it seems that the vaccination programme is finally about to reach the most entitled cohort. :pac:

Or the most populated cohort

paw patrol

Lumen wrote: »

Judging by the volume of posts this morning it seems that the vaccination programme is finally about to reach the most entitled cohort. :pac:

in my experience of the last year the 40-60 age group we the most fearful of covid and most gung-ho supporters of restrictions. just an observation.
Makes sense to see this line of posting today

SJFly

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I've a sense of déjà vu. Rinse and repeat the same discussion that was had before the 50s opened up.

Similar, but 40s are at higher risk of clots and lower risk of covid, so lots more will just refuse. It really needs to be opt in.

ddarcy

Also to note for AZ, the health care workers started getting it mid-February and their 16 weeks is coming to an end in the next few weeks. Cohort 4 started in mid March and their 12 weeks is coming to an end in the next few weeks. So essentially in 2-3 weeks they will be giving twice as many second doses than originally planned to cover these two groups. This will go on for about 2-3 weeks and then level off. So a lot of AZ coming in needs to cover that.

stephenjmcd

revelman wrote: »

I was predicting all along that this would the the approach, that J&J would go into pharmacies. This would align with the approach in Germany, for example. In Germany, Pfizer and Moderna are in the MVCs whereas GPs are stocked with AZ and J&J as well. AZ and J&J are now free to all ages in Germany. You go into your GP, he/she outlines the risks, and then you have given “informed consent” to take the vaccine,

Apparently, Colm Henry was on Newstalk just now confirming that NIAC has approved AZ and J&J for those in their forties. I missed it but saw a reference on Twitter.

Would probably be the cleanest way to go about things anyway. Might even speed it up a little

JPup

km79 wrote: »

Same for me
Tbh if I am offered J and J I don’t even think I’d bother waiting . I’d just take it
AZ is a problem only in so far as I would be back at school before being fully vaccinated . I don’t want to be in that situation next September again.

The protection you'd get from one shot of AZ is very similar to what you'd get from one shot of J&J. Your risk of getting seriously ill from Covid-19 4 weeks after either would be greatly reduced.

Russman

km79 wrote: »

Same for me
Tbh if I am offered J and J I don’t even think I’d bother waiting . I’d just take it
AZ is a problem only in so far as I would be back at school before being fully vaccinated . I don’t want to be in that situation next September again.

Agree with you.

The irony in the whole thing is that, apart from international travel purposes, you're deemed vaccinated quicker with the AZ & J&J shots (4 weeks after dose 1 with AZ and 2 weeks after J&J) than you are with the mRNA ones (1 week after dose 2 with Pfizer, and 2 weeks after dose 2 with Moderna).
This needs to be highlighted and pushed to increase take up. If someone isn't planning on going abroad, the 16 week gap with AZ is effectively a non issue.

km79

km79 wrote: »

Same for me
Tbh if I am offered J and J I don’t even think I’d bother waiting . I’d just take it
AZ is a problem only in so far as I would be back at school before being fully vaccinated . I don’t want to be in that situation next September again.

It bears repeating, per health authorities, you are considered fully vaccinated 4 weeks after first dose of AZ, provided you get the second dose when invited to do so. This is earlier than with either of the mRNA vaccines

Russman

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Would probably be the cleanest way to go about things anyway. Might even speed it up a little

Yeah, I think there would be a massive uptake of J&J in the pharmacies tbh if it was offered. Particularly amongst males being supposedly less at risk from the clotting - one and done, protected in two weeks, get it at a time of your choosing - everyone's a winner.

Pandiculation

Any hint of what day 40-49 will open on the portal? It’s still only open for 50-59.

revelman

Michael Lehane on Twitter saying that the NIAC conditions are “not straightforward operationally” and this means a government decision is “some days off”

Shane Beatty of Newstalk is reporting that one of the conditions is that the vaccines be given “in a quicker timeframe”. Really not sure what sort of “condition” this is. Perhaps reducing the interval between AZ doses?

josip

Russman wrote: »

Yeah, I think there would be a massive uptake of J&J in the pharmacies tbh if it was offered. Particularly amongst males being supposedly less at risk from the clotting - one and done, protected in two weeks, get it at a time of your choosing - everyone's a winner.

Are thee sufficient supplies of J&J for this plan?
I thought there was only 200,000 expected during May and not until the end of June do we get a further 225,000.

Most 40-49 would have gotten an MRNA by the time the end of June J&J is available.
So at the end of June we'll be doing this silly charade all over again for J&J the 30-39 cohort.

Lumen

The A in NIAC stands for Advisory, right? Not Authority.

revelman

josip wrote: »

Are thee sufficient supplies of J&J for this plan?
I thought there was only 200,000 expected during May and not until the end of June do we get a further 225,000.

Most 40-49 would have gotten an MRNA by the time the end of June J&J is available.
So at the end of June we'll be doing this silly charade all over again for J&J the 30-39 cohort.

I don’t think the J&J deliveries for May are looking that promising. The Germans are expecting only 30,000 next week.

Rebelbrowser

josip wrote: »

Are thee sufficient supplies of J&J for this plan?
I thought there was only 200,000 expected during May and not until the end of June do we get a further 225,000.

Most 40-49 would have gotten an MRNA by the time the end of June J&J is available.
So at the end of June we'll be doing this silly charade all over again for J&J the 30-39 cohort.

This is why I think there is a deliberate delay now for the 40 somethings. HSE don't want all of us vaccinated by the time the big J&J consignment arrives at the end of June....

Russman

josip wrote: »

Are thee sufficient supplies of J&J for this plan?
I thought there was only 200,000 expected during May and not until the end of June do we get a further 225,000.

Most 40-49 would have gotten an MRNA by the time the end of June J&J is available.
So at the end of June we'll be doing this silly charade all over again for J&J the 30-39 cohort.

I've no idea tbh. I thought we were expecting either 550k or 600k in total by the end of June ? It could end up not being practical I guess, who knows.

Pandiculation

As much as I’m keen to get this done ASAP, I’d rather see NIAC taken seriously. They’re trying to get this as smooth and safe as they can.

We’ve got the most vulnerable vaccinated, so the reopening should, hopefully, be safe enough, albeit still hugely desirable to get this rolled out fully ASAP.

I genuinely feel more confident in the fact that the medics and technical advise on this here isn’t being mired or clouded in the politics of wanting them in arms at any cost though. As good as the UK speed has been, I’ve a certain lack of trust in Johnson’s spin and the nationalism that blinded them from being too analytical about risks.

Get it done but get it done safely.

I’m much happier with pure technocracy on this topic.

km79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It bears repeating, per health authorities, you are considered fully vaccinated 4 weeks after first dose of AZ, provided you get the second dose when invited to do so. This is earlier than with either of the mRNA vaccines

Ah right !
No issue for me so . Hopefully get to register soon

ddarcy

revelman wrote: »

Michael Lehane on Twitter saying that the NIAC conditions are “not straightforward operationally” and this means a government decision is “some days off”

Shane Beatty of Newstalk is reporting that one of the conditions is that the vaccines be given “in a quicker timeframe”. Really not sure what sort of “condition” this is. Perhaps reducing the interval between AZ doses?

I’d say they are holding back vaccines and NIAC is telling them to not do this. Another poster was complaining on Moderna sitting in the fridge, etc. Basically the current plan is to give AZ and hold off vaccinating instead of giving an available vaccine sooner. NIAC I think is saying don’t do that and get jabs in arms. Might explain some of the slow rollout so far.

Lumen

Pandiculation wrote: »

As much as I’m keen to get this done ASAP, I’d rather see NIAC taken seriously. They’re trying to get this as smooth and safe as they can.

We’ve got the most vulnerable vaccinated, so the reopening should, hopefully, be safe enough, albeit still hugely desirable to get this rolled out fully ASAP.

I genuinely feel more confident in the fact that the medics and technical advise on this here isn’t being mired or clouded in the politics of wanting them in arms at any cost though. As good as the UK speed has been, I’ve a certain lack of trust in Johnson’s spin and the nationalism that blinded them from being too analytical about risks.

Get it done but get it done safely.

IMO this would be better done by forming an exective council of NIAC and HSE bods, and iron out disagreements at the table and communicate a single message, rather than playing chess by post and having every move leaked.