Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

gaming_needs90

Gael23 wrote: »

Now normal refrigerator a month after discarding doses fro not being frozen fro hours
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0517/1222166-pfizer-vaccine/

Yes. I don't see what you are getting at. Can you see the future to prevent such issues again?

isha

isha wrote: »

I am supposing this is the Pro Vaccine thread so excuse me now while I point out some data that nobody seems to want to know about.

The European Database of Suspected Adverse Drug Reactions (http://www.adrreports.eu/en/background.html) was established by the European Medicine Agency in 2012 (https://www.ema.europa.eu/en)

Thus far to 16th May 2021 this database has recorded adverse reactions to all 4 vaccines on general release in Europe (VAERS is the US equivalent).
You can look at the data yourself.

https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages
Pfizer


https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages
Moderna


https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+40995439
Astrazeneca


https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42287887
Johnson and Johnson

There is a tab on each page named ''Number of Individual Cases for a Selected Reaction''
On the left of page in the top drop down menu you can go between various categories of bodily reaction groups.

I will save you some trouble as elsewhere I have read the totals for each vaccine.

Pfizer - 5,368 deaths and 170,528 injuries to 08/05/2021
Moderna - 2,865 deaths and 22,985 injuries to 08/05/2021
Astrazeneca - 2,102 deaths and 208,873 injuries to 08/05/2021
Johnson and Johnson - 235 deaths and 2,873 injuries to 08/05/2021

I think this information is valid insofar as I can assess the website. I see that most reports I have looked at are reported by healthcare professional. The categories are incredibly specific and would indicate access is being made by medical professionals.

Thus far to 8th of May (and it has increased since) There has overall been 10,570 deaths and 405,259 injuries reported to EudraVigilance.

The information came to my attention from a link to what people will dismiss as an anti-vaccination website. But I checked out Eudra's website and just looked at the data on the tabs to see if the report was correct and all seems to be in order. The website is incredibly slow to access individual databases so be prepared for that.

Never before has any medicine or vaccination been allowed to continue in the history of modern medicine with such a huge list of reported adverse effects and deaths, and especially worrying is that they are emerging so abundantly and so early in the process.

Any opinions?

Could you explain the below in the links you provided? And still claim this isnt the work of rabid anti-vaxxers.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Could you explain the below in the links you provided? And still claim this isnt the work of rabid anti-vaxxers.

No idea where that came from. Never saw it before. Are the pages I linked to on the Eudra website not real pages?

isha

isha wrote: »

No idea where that came from. Never saw it before. Are the pages I linked to on the Eudra website not real pages?

Its your link, so you tell me.

Edit: Strangely, the link is now Error 404--Not Found
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Its your link, so you tell me

I have gone back to my links in my post. It is now saying Error 404 at all pages linked when I click on them. I have no idea why this is. When I was there this morning they were pages full of tables and statistics with various tabs. I spent a while going through them and checked out the data specifically under one tab for Pfizer under blood events, just to see if the numbers correlated. There were lots of other drop down tabs, but I only took note of the stats in that one - I have the page beside me where I did it. It looked official to me.
Now that it is showing errors, and rather bizarrely showing Eye of god links such as you are finding, I honestly have no clue what is going on with it.

isha

isha wrote: »

I have gone back to my links in my post. It is now saying Error 404 at all pages linked when I click on them. I have no idea why this is. When I was there this morning they were pages full of tables and statistics with various tabs. I spent a while going through them and checked out the data specifically under one tab for Pfizer under blood events, just to see if the numbers correlated. There were lots of other drop down tabs, but I only took note of the stats in that one - I have the page beside me where I did it. It looked official to me.
Now that it is showing errors, and rather bizarrely showing Eye of god links such as you are finding, I honestly have no clue what is going on with it.

Most important piece of information on the actual site

The information on this website relates to suspected side effects , i.e. medical events that have been observed following the use of a medicine, but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine.
bullet
Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine.
The European Medicines Agency publishes these data so that its stakeholders, including the general public, can access information that European regulatory authorities use to review the safety of a medicine or active substance. Transparency is a key guiding principle of the Agency.

http://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Most important piece of information on the actual site



http://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html

I have agreed with all of that - that these reports have yet to be verified etc.

When you find out what the Eye of God stuff was about, do let me know - it looked bizarre.

ShineOn7

With what's happened with the HSE cyber attack, what's the latest on Cohort 7 and GPs now able to refer them online on the portal? (or something along those lines)

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It looked official to me.

Now that it is showing errors, and rather bizarrely showing Eye of god links such as you are finding, I honestly have no clue what is going on with it.

This indicates that it is not a reliable source of information.

Be careful what kind of information you trust online, and check it's a genuinely official source. There are people online with certain agendas who are either deliberately misinterpreting or simply making up data. Some of them look quite convincing, but it's all intended to send you down their bizarre rabbit hole.

Flying Fox

Flying Fox wrote: »

This indicates that it is not a reliable source of information.

Be careful what kind of information you trust online, and check it's a genuinely official source. There are people online with certain agendas who are either deliberately misinterpreting or simply making up data. Some of them look quite convincing, but it's all intended to send you down their bizarre rabbit hole.

I know there is untrustworthy information out there. I ignore all the loodelahs. But I will have to follow this up later and try and see if I can get to the source of the reports I saw - because if someone fraudulently compiled them they spent a lot of time doing it!!

beardybrewer

beardybrewer wrote: »

Is there any data on the longevity of AZ over J&J at this point?

To answer my own question I don't think anyone knows this yet. Best information I found was here:

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

J&J: 72% overall efficacy and 86% efficacy against severe disease

AZ: 76% effective at reducing the risk of symptomatic disease 15 days or more after receiving the two doses, and 100% against severe disease

Pf: 95% overall efficacy and 100% efficacy against severe disease. In early May, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was found to be more than 95% effective against severe disease or death from the variants first detected in the United Kingdom (B.1.1.7) and South Africa (B.1.351) in two studies based on real-world use of the vaccine.

So obviously Pfizer is the best for effectiveness, as far as I know, there are studies of its longevity which I don't know about the other 2, and it's more effective against variants.

My thinking is, if you don't want to wait, AZ offers more protection if you have concerns whereas J&J's one-and-done may appeal as a quicker option for those who are healthy and not that worried.

Okay, well I have followed through on checking where the data came from and if you go to this link...

http://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html


You can click from there to ...

Search for a Report, which opens this page...

http://www.adrreports.eu/en/search.html


and then you click on the tab called Suspected Adverse drug reactions for SUBSTANCES

Choose the letter C

and scroll down to all 4 Covid vaccine links.

When you click on one of those links it opens in an Oracle BI Interactive Dashboard (which are the dashboards I linked earlier)

eg for Moderna I get this one

https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+40983312

And then on that page there are several tabs and the one labelled ''Number of Individual cases for a selected reaction'' has the data I was referring to - it goes through individual body stuff like say Blood and Lymphatic, Cardiac etc etc.

The website is extremely slow, and sometimes gives error messages. I have seen no Eye of God stuff or weirdness, and it all looks proper and official if one goes through all the links as above.

beardybrewer

Yeah, I totally take that point and understand how the efficacy numbers were affected depending on how bad the outbreaks were at the time of the trial (comment was in reply to a deleted post re: efficacy numbers which has since been deleted).

My understanding was every vaccine is 100% effective against death or serious disease but I don't know that much about J&J. My original question about its longevity compared to AZ. If given a choice between waiting, J&J, or AZ I think I'd lean towards AZ and possibly being slightly more effective and hopefully lasting longer (2 shots more of a boost than 1 but that's just my gut feeling I'd love the facts).

If the wait for an mRNA vaccine is only a month then ironically it might be faster to wait because you'll get the 2nd shot in 3 weeks vs 3 months (for AZ).

Lumen

isha wrote: »

The information came to my attention from a link to what people will dismiss as an anti-vaccination website.

What link? Maybe you should let people make their own judgement about the source of your concerns.

Wolf359f

ShineOn7 wrote: »

With what's happened with the HSE cyber attack, what's the latest on Cohort 7 and GPs now able to refer them online on the portal? (or something along those lines)

Cohort 7 here, I received a txt Friday afternoon about a referral from my consultant for a vaccine with the time and date to follow (got the time and date a few hours later) this was all after they had shut down what needed to be shut down, so I'd guess the referral system is still up and running.

It seemed to come from swiftqueue, same as blood test appointments, so that must be still up and running.

bodhrandude

Wolf359f wrote: »

Cohort 7 here, I received a txt Friday afternoon about a referral from my consultant for a vaccine with the time and date to follow (got the time and date a few hours later) this was all after they had shut down what needed to be shut down, so I'd guess the referral system is still up and running.

It seemed to come from swiftqueue, same as blood test appointments, so that must be still up and running.

Nice to hear you got sorted in the end, it must be relief.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

What link? Maybe you should let people make their own judgement about the source of your concerns.

I saw it mentioned on Twitter and the photo in the tweet had EudraVigilance - which to be frank sounds weird and like a made-up name.


But I responded by googling ''eudravigilance reports of covid adverse reactions'' - I have copied this phrase from my search history.

It gave various options of sites and third down the list was
http://www.adrreports.eu/en/

I checked out that site and it looked kosher. Then went back to Twitter to find who was commenting on this. I found it was only the fringe elements. I went to a site linked in one tweet called Humans Are Free and they had the totals I included earlier.
Suspecting it was not so, I went back to the original site - adrreports and began looking myself at the databases - as I said specifically for blood and lymphatic responses, and the numbers were coming out quite similar to what the fringe website had reported.

The source of my concerns can be found at the official website - http://www.adrreports.eu/en/search_subst.html#

paw patrol

isha wrote: »

I am supposing this is the Pro Vaccine thread so excuse me now while I point out some data that nobody seems to want to know about.

Any opinions?

My opinion - I never really bothered much with this thread before before today.

It's chock a block with people absolute mad for the vaccine - as is their right tbf but it's a fairly unbalanced thread. You are wasting your time posting that stuff here. Nobody wants to know - you are talking to the wall or preaching to the converted - take your pick.

More than one poster today said words to the effect "stick it in me, whatever it is" . All they want is the vaccine and they want it NOW . The hysteria in the media and the restrictions has people desperate for the jab unless I stumbled into a thread exclusively for sick people.

you're better served relaxing and owning your own decision.
Flake out in the sun.

Skygord

From the Guardian's Coronavirus blog at 17:23

Johnson & Johnson has cut by half expected deliveries of Covid-19 vaccines to the European Union this week, an EU official told Reuters.

Under its contract with the EU, J&J has committed to shipping 55 million doses of its one-shot vaccine in the second quarter. But midway through the quarter, it had delivered less than 5 million doses, less than 10% of its target, Reuters reports.

In addition to these initial delays, the drugmaker “is cutting deliveries this week by half,” one EU official involved in talks with vaccine makers said, adding that it is not clear how many doses will be delivered next week. The official did not say how many doses were expected this week. “We understand there is only a limited temporary reduction of deliveries which is expected to be caught up at a later stage,” a spokesman for the European Commission said, declining to say how many doses short this week’s delivery will be.

Both the EU source and the spokesman said the company was still aiming to deliver the contracted 55 million doses by the end of June.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/may/17/coronavirus-live-news-parts-of-uk-ease-lockdown-despite-india-variant-fears-4-out-of-5-in-japan-oppose-olympics?page=with:block-60a297f38f08e757a7357a1e#block-60a297f38f08e757a7357a1e

Turtwig

There probably are some people desperate for the jab and others that could be accused of vaccine cheerling.

Doesn't change the nature of Bullsh1t. It's still bullsh1t.

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

My opinion - I never really bothered much with this thread before before today.

It's chock a block with people absolute mad for the vaccine - as is their right tbf but it's a fairly unbalanced thread. You are wasting your time posting that stuff here. Nobody wants to know - you are talking to the wall or preaching to the converted - take your pick.

More than one poster today said words to the effect "stick it in me, whatever it is" . All they want is the vaccine and they want it NOW . The hysteria in the media and the restrictions has people desperate for the jab unless I stumbled into a thread exclusively for sick people.

you're better served relaxing and owning your own decision.
Flake out in the sun.

Hahahha Are you my husband secretly on boards? He always says to me about my very many contrary opinions (many of which have, in the long run, proven to be correct!!) on a multitude of things in life - why do you bother, never mind the gobshytes, do your own thing
Which to be frank is what I have always done - my own thing, I mean.
Just thought it was worth posting some additional or alternative info from a reliable source for people to check in on other possible view points. As you say though, it rarely is worth it.

ACitizenErased

Imagine being desperate for a vaccine against a disease that could kill you. Imagine.

Lumen

isha wrote: »

The source of my concerns can be found at the official website - http://www.adrreports.eu/en/search_subst.html#

No it isn't. The source of your concerns is some uncited Twitter post by a loon. You haven't linked to it because it would damage the credibility of your argument.

You read this page, right? It's linked from the header.

http://www.adrreports.eu/en/understanding_reports.html

For a medicine to be authorised for use, its benefits should outweigh any associated risks of side effects. At the time of authorisation of a medicine, the benefit-risk balance has been assessed and the benefits judged to outweigh the risks. All the information available on this website relates to medicines that have been assessed in this way and authorised for use in the European Economic Area (EEA).
....
The information on this website cannot be used to determine the likelihood of experiencing a side effect.

They've even helpfully bolded the important bits.

Frank Bullitt

Getting mine here in Vancouver tomorrow, sounds like a nice dose of Moderna for me.

Can't wait to have better phone signal and be able to change shows on Netflix by wiggling my ears.

JTMan

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1394326978405322767

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

The source of your concerns is some uncited Twitter post by a loon. .

Incorrect. I went to the source reports of an official European body and looked at them quite closely for some time.
That may be inconvenient for your bias, but there you go.

revelman

I think contrarianism is important and I would see myself has having contrarian positions on some issues. Without contrarians, we would not have made significant progress in science and we’d still probably be living in primitive societies. But I’m certainly not a permanent contrarian.

The permanent contrarian’s fallacy is that the contrary position is always the truth, that the majority view is always the wrong one. That is patently absurd. More often than such contrarians care to admit, the majority might be correct and the contrarian might be wrong. Very often the majority can see the wool that the contrarian says has been pulled over their eyes. The majority has simply pushed that wool to one side because it is not very important.

Lumen

isha wrote: »

Incorrect. I went to the source reports of an official European body and looked at them quite closely for some time.
That may be inconvenient for your bias, but there you go.

These are your exact words:

isha wrote: »

I saw it mentioned on Twitter and the photo in the tweet had EudraVigilance - which to be frank sounds weird and like a made-up name.

Therefore, the source of your concens was a Tweet. Please provide the link to that Tweet.

Spreading anti-vax nonsense is dangerous. The last major wave of anti-vax that I'm aware of was triggered by Andrew Wakefield's fraudulent and since-debunked "research" on links to autism, the local impact of which is described here:

https://www.medicalindependent.ie/the-great-fraud-of-andrew-wakefield/

Measles vaccine uptake had fallen in the area to 70 per cent as a result of Wakefield’s proclamations. Some 335 children attended the hospital with proven measles, 111 were admitted to hospital, 13 required intensive care, and three sadly died. Avoidable measles, misery and mortality.

That's what anti-vax does. Spare your arbitrary contrarianism for topics where your ill-informed and unqualified misrepresentations won't result in people dying.

plodder

paw patrol wrote: »

My opinion - I never really bothered much with this thread before before today.

It's chock a block with people absolute mad for the vaccine - as is their right tbf but it's a fairly unbalanced thread. You are wasting your time posting that stuff here. Nobody wants to know - you are talking to the wall or preaching to the converted - take your pick.

More than one poster today said words to the effect "stick it in me, whatever it is" . All they want is the vaccine and they want it NOW . The hysteria in the media and the restrictions has people desperate for the jab unless I stumbled into a thread exclusively for sick people.

you're better served relaxing and owning your own decision.
Flake out in the sun.

"stick it in me, whatever it is" - so long as "it" is an EMA approved vaccine. Bit of a difference there.

In fairness too, the poster asked the question and even though it's been asked loads of times before, they got a reasoned answer. Hundreds of millions of people have got these vaccines already. Some percentage of people will trip and fall when leaving the vaccine centre. That's not the vaccine's fault , just like some percentage will get sick after getting the vaccine, and that's not the vaccine's fault either except for this rare blot clotting business which is actually caused by the vaccine.

JRant

Skygord wrote: »

From the Guardian's Coronavirus blog at 17:23



https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/may/17/coronavirus-live-news-parts-of-uk-ease-lockdown-despite-india-variant-fears-4-out-of-5-in-japan-oppose-olympics?page=with:block-60a297f38f08e757a7357a1e#block-60a297f38f08e757a7357a1e

50 million doses in a little over a month. Considering how unreliable they have been to date, I'd say that's pie in the sky stuff. Starting to look like J&J will be about as much use as Moderna here, which is to say, not a lot.