Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

revelman

revelman wrote: »

I think contrarianism is important and I would see myself has having contrarian positions on some issues. Without contrarians, we would not have made significant progress in science and we’d still probably be living in primitive societies. But I’m certainly not a permanent contrarian.

The permanent contrarian’s fallacy is that the contrary position is always the truth, that the majority view is always the wrong one. That is patently absurd. More often than such contrarians care to admit, the majority might be correct and the contrarian might be wrong. Very often the majority can see the wool that the contrarian says has been pulled over their eyes. The majority has simply pushed that wool to one side because it is not very important.

True true. But contrarians do not all insist they are infallible. Keeling over at the first line of attack on a contrarian position, or indeed the second, third or fourth, etc, would hardly be very brave or useful though, would it. Contrary positions are as you say important. And therefore one's brain must be trained to entertain them, for however long they exist.
I am very open to the vaccines being manna from Heaven, albeit from a personal point of view after sufficient time has passed for accurate and longer term data to be scientifically assessed.

In the meantime I feel free to observe other data that may not be palatable to the majority.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

JRant wrote: »

50 million doses in a little over a month. Considering how unreliable they have been to date, I'd say that's pie in the sky stuff. Starting to look like J&J will be about as much use as Moderna here, which is to say, not a lot.

There is supposed to be a lot of vaccine stockpiled at Emergent Biosolutions. When the FDA give the factory the green light again is anybody's guess though.

Gile_na_gile

Of more relevance than the immortality-gate distraction is that Germany is going straight to available to all over 16 years on June 7th (in Guardian live blog). If we were to do the same around then, all this prioritisation debate would recede.

Germany will scrap its Covid vaccine priority list and start offering jabs to all adults from June 7, the country’s health minister Jens Spahn said.
The move means anyone aged 16 and up will be eligible for a vaccine in Germany, scrapping the existing priority criteria based on age, jobs and pre-existing medical conditions, AFP reports. “We have agreed to lift the priority system on June 7... in doctor’s practices, among company doctors and in vaccination centres,” Spahn said after talks with Germany’s 16 regional health ministers.

SJFly

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the meantime I feel free to observe other data that may not be palatable to the majority.

I think you're still missing the point. The raw data is pretty much meaningless, without thorough analysis. Linking to the raw data and calling it unpalatable is just scaremongering.

JRant

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

There is supposed to be a lot of vaccine stockpiled at Emergent Biosolutions. When the FDA give the factory the green light again is anybody's guess though.

They've been looking at that for nearly a month now already. Easy to know it doesn't affect the US judging by the speed of their response.

greenfarm

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Of more relevance than the immortality-gate distraction is that Germany is going straight to available to all over 16 years on June 7th (in Guardian live blog). If we were to do the same around then, all this prioritisation debate would recede.

I think it's going to happen very soon here, my father 57 got his jab last week and the nurse said thanks for coming, alot of no shows today, good you came.

Demand is dropping hence the mad media campaign going on.

Wouldn't be suprised to see incentives being offered in July to get stragglers, supervalu vouchers etc

SJFly

SJFly wrote: »

I think you're still missing the point. The raw data is pretty much meaningless, without thorough analysis. Linking to the raw data and calling it unpalatable is just scaremongering.

Ignoring it completely may prove unwise.
Time will tell.

Greystones appointments tomorrow have got a text changing their vaccine from pfizer to Astrazenica

Has that happened before?

Lucas Hood

Germany to open up vaccinations to all on June 7

https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-india-coronavirus-pandemic-race-and-ethnicity-business-12cdfacd98e57eea03a52a78c87b9e6b

Jim_Hodge

greenfarm wrote: »

I think it's going to happen very soon here, my father 57 got his jab last week and the nurse said thanks for coming, alot of no shows today, good you came.

Demand is dropping hence the mad media campaign going on.

Wouldn't be suprised to see incentives being offered in July to get stragglers, supervalu vouchers etc

Funny if demand is dropping that many are waiting almost three weeks for an appointment.

Why register and not cancel when texted an appointment if you don't want it?

Godot.

JRant wrote: »

They've been looking at that for nearly a month now already. Easy to know it doesn't affect the US judging by the speed of their response.

This is promising news. Those doses the US are giving to the world won't concern Europe because America will probably give them to India etc, but it suggests clearance is due soon for vaccines from the Emergent site. Europe will hopefully get its contracted doses.

https://twitter.com/ZacharyBrennan/status/1394328115422367744

stephenjmcd

Godot. wrote: »

This is promising news. Those doses the US are giving to the world won't concern Europe because America will probably give them to India etc, but it suggests clearance is due soon for vaccines from the Emergent site. Europe will hopefully get its contracted doses.

https://twitter.com/ZacharyBrennan/status/1394328115422367744

If its from Emergent it is big news for us. Will hopefully fulfill the J&J delviery in Q2 as you'd assume they'll be released quickly after

Cork Lass

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Funny if demand is dropping that many are waiting almost three weeks for an appointment.

Why register and not cancel when texted an appointment if you don't want it?

I was vaccinated at one of the MVC's in Cork this morning. Whilst walking through the car park I heard them over the walkie talkie saying to check anyone waiting in cars (I assume those that had arrived too early) and to send them in as there was absolutely no queue in the centre. My appointment was for 11.15 am and i was seen a few minutes early and out the door at 11.25. Definitely some people must not be turning up.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

stephenjmcd wrote: »

If its from Emergent it is big news for us. Will hopefully fulfill the J&J delviery in Q2 as you'd assume they'll be released quickly after

Wouldn't be surprised if it's a shipment of 500k in the final week of June, like a college kid submitting an assignment at the last minute

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

True true. But contrarians do not all insist they are infallible. Keeling over at the first line of attack on a contrarian position, or indeed the second, third or fourth, etc, would hardly be very brave or useful though, would it. Contrary positions are as you say important. And therefore one's brain must be trained to entertain them, for however long they exist.
I am very open to the vaccines being manna from Heaven, albeit from a personal point of view after sufficient time has passed for accurate and longer term data to be scientifically assessed.

In the meantime I feel free to observe other data that may not be palatable to the majority.

And reap the benefit of everyone else getting vaccinated while you convince yourself you are one of the enlightened few

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ignoring it completely may prove unwise.
Time will tell.

It’s not ignored. It’s examined thoroughly and if something is off it’s reported. It is so thorough that within weeks of the AZ vaccine program starting the CVST issue was detected even though its a 1 in 100,000 event.

What you are continually and convenient ignoring is that everything post vaccine is reportable through the system. Sore arm, headache, unrelated migraine, hayfever, allergic reaction due to other medications, and yes every death that cannot be immediately ruled out as not been vaccine related which is most. The raw data is what you referenced with all in. The continued daily grind of weeding out the minor acceptable sore arms and mild temperatures is ongoing in regulatory bodies daily, looking for the rare events that may be concerning and then comparing to the rates of those same conditions in general.

One example is occurrence of myocarditis in people who have received the Pfizer vaccine. Yes there have been many cases, probably triggered by the immune response to the vaccine, but at numbers you would expect in the background and a far lower levels that those seen in people who get Covid.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And reap the Brno of everyone else getting vaccinated while you convince yourself you are one of the enlightened few

If you are happy to take the vaccine or any medications for that matter, then do so, and be content. I am happy for you to be contented. While it is not a sterilising vaccine, meaning you may still to some degree catch, incubate and transmit Covid 19, you will nonetheless be largely protected from serious illness, according to the manufacturers. Beyond your own personal choices in this matter, which I fully support, do not belabour me or others with emotional blackmail.

Jellybaby_1

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s not ignored. It’s examined thoroughly and if something is off it’s reported. It is so thorough that within weeks of the AZ vaccine program starting the CVST issue was detected even though its a 1 in 100,000 event.

What you are continually and convenient ignoring is that everything post vaccine is reportable through the system. Sore arm, headache, unrelated migraine, hayfever, allergic reaction due to other medications, and yes every death that cannot be immediately ruled out as not been vaccine related which is most. The raw data is what you referenced with all in. The continued daily grind of weeding out the minor acceptable sore arms and mild temperatures is ongoing in regulatory bodies daily, looking for the rare events that may be concerning and then comparing to the rates of those same conditions in general.

One example is occurrence of myocarditis in people who have received the Pfizer vaccine. Yes there have been many cases, probably triggered by the immune response to the vaccine, but at numbers you would expect in the background and a far lower levels that those seen in people who get Covid.

Regarding presently available covid vaccines the facts remain that the very vaccinations that millions have already been given have since been discontinued in several countries, including Norway and Denmark, and the EU will discontinue the purchase of them from June. These changes have taken place in a short time. Other changes may also take place, as yet unforeseen. This cannot be denied.

Lumen

isha wrote: »

Regarding presently available covid vaccines the facts remain that the very vaccinations that millions have already been given have since been discontinued in several countries, including Norway and Denmark, and the EU will discontinue the purchase of them from June. These changes have taken place in a short time. Other changes may also take place, as yet unforeseen. This cannot be denied.

Neither can your freeloading on the immunity of others

Jellybaby_1

Jellybaby_1 wrote: »

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

Jellybaby that's not acceptable at all - especially when you read about all the people in their 50s getting appts.
I'd continue to phone the GP and HSE several times a day and let them know that you'll be continuing to phone until they're vaccinated.

JRant

Godot. wrote: »

This is promising news. Those doses the US are giving to the world won't concern Europe because America will probably give them to India etc, but it suggests clearance is due soon for vaccines from the Emergent site. Europe will hopefully get its contracted doses.

https://twitter.com/ZacharyBrennan/status/1394328115422367744

80 million doses is pathetic really.

iamwhoiam

Jellybaby_1 wrote: »

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

They could try to register online on the portal maybe ? I have heard of someone who had registered by phone getting lost in thr system . No harm in registering online now as you had no satisfaction by phone

I am in 65-70 age group as are all my friends and we are all done 3 weeks now
Its not good enough for your relatives

Panrich

Jellybaby_1 wrote: »

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

I agree with the other poster. I'd be ringing your GP morning noon and night for an update.

Call me Al

Jellybaby_1 wrote: »

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

Are they the only ones in their age range amongst their friends who are left like this?

There was a problem in Meath wrt registration of postcodes and it meant that people of a similar age weren't receiving appointments. It took some local councillors to intervene, kick up a bit of fuss, and get to the bottom of the problem over the weekend to get it resolved last night.
Maybe there's an update on their portal booking?
But you're right this isn't OK.

Jellybaby_1

Deleted User wrote: »

Jellybaby that's not acceptable at all - especially when you read about all the people in their 50s getting appts.
I'd continue to phone the GP and HSE several times a day and let them know that you'll be continuing to phone until they're vaccinated.

According to my family, that doesn't work. The people you finally get to talk to have no power to do anything. Maybe a call to Joe might be the only answer for them!

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Regarding presently available covid vaccines the facts remain that the very vaccinations that millions have already been given have since been discontinued in several countries, including Norway and Denmark, and the EU will discontinue the purchase of them from June. These changes have taken place in a short time. Other changes may also take place, as yet unforeseen. This cannot be denied.

Point out a vaccine where long term adverse effects were not apparent soon after mass vaccinations began

expectationlost

is it really 16 weeks betw the 2 AZ shots? 4 months!

is it still necessary to have it that spread out? supply wise?

paw patrol

isha wrote: »

Hahahha Are you my husband secretly on boards? He always says to me about my very many contrary opinions (many of which have, in the long run, proven to be correct!!) on a multitude of things in life - why do you bother, never mind the gobshytes, do your own thing
Which to be frank is what I have always done - my own thing, I mean.
Just thought it was worth posting some additional or alternative info from a reliable source for people to check in on other possible view points. As you say though, it rarely is worth it.

I don't think I'm your husband:). my wife doesn't do the internet unless secretly:)

Tbh I tried initially with my views and thoughts when I was muddling through trying to make sense of the initial stages but people are entrenched and rarely want to listen it's a lot of point scoring and a "gotcha my expert is better than yours" type thing. It can be tiresome unless you are killing time.

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Imagine being desperate for a vaccine against a disease that could kill you. Imagine.

flu kills. people aren't too desperate for that vaccine. why is that? the hype. Covid has great PR. I can't deny that.

Sure covid can kill but people die from all manner of things but unless you are sick or really old (and then it's really the sick & old combo) you aren't at much risk of dying. As pointed out my granny got it in jan at 101 and was fine.

384 people (as per CSO 30th april) under 65 have died in ireland "with covid" since it began. out of 5 million. Every death is sad on an individual level but I can't get into a flap over those numbers. If I did, I'd never leave the house.

plodder wrote: »

"stick it in me, whatever it is" - so long as "it" is an EMA approved vaccine. Bit of a difference there.

an EMA approved vaccine - you mean the "conditional marketing authorisation granted " vaccines.

definitely hasn't skipped a few steps in testing and authorisation. In no way has their been any "fast tracking" oh...


like this

in the interest of public health, applicants may be granted a conditional marketing authorisation for such medicines on less comprehensive clinical data than normally required, where the benefit of immediate availability of the medicine outweighs the risk inherent in the fact that additional data are still required.

"less comprehensive clinical data than normally required" defo no issues there boss.

or this

During the COVID-19 pandemic, the conditional marketing authorisation procedure is being used to expedite the approval of safe and effective COVID-19 treatments and vaccines in the EU.

This is in line with EU legislation which foresees that conditional marketing authorisation is used as the fast-track authorisation during public health emergencies to speed up approval and save lives.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/marketing-authorisation/conditional-marketing-authorisation

stick it in me boss.
fcukin hell jab me twice just to be sure:pac:

conditional vaccine or almost no chance dying unless if you aren't sick/old.
I'll chance my immune system all the same.

But in case you all take me up wrong, I'm a massive believer in personal freedom esp for your own body. So do what you will to yourself - I'm just here to chew the fat and read others opinions.

podgeandrodge

Marine Layer wrote: »

Greystones appointments tomorrow have got a text changing their vaccine from pfizer to Astrazenica

Has that happened before?

Never read that on here anyway. I'd be saying NO on principle!