Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Goldengirl

average_runner wrote: »

Yes side effects can happen with all. We don't know how our body will react. But from what I seen and who I talked to that gone through the process, AZ has more side effects. Doesn't mean everyone will get them

Pfizer second dose has side effects also .
Headaches, extreme fatigue, fluey aches and pains and diarrhoea.
All normal to expect and all gone within a few days .
Doesn't seem to happen in older people so much , but even if you do or don't get them you are still protected .

Rebelbrowser

ixoy wrote: »

So is the difficulty in implementing the NIAC advice on being able to accent J&J/AZ for the 40ss group a result of complexity arising from the HSE hack?

Don't think so. They were saying 8 0r 9 days ago (i.e. before the attack) that they saw the NIAC advice as difficult from a practical point of view. Nor was any linkage made between the two issues in the news conference

adam240610

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Looks like we're going to struggle to use 200k of J&J which means we could have potentially 400k+ doses that we can't use.

It's not great news to be honest. Will delay the rollout to u40s I think and we'll need more Pfizer to make up the shortfall

As for AZ, as I mentioned in comments the other day, looking at the numbers and 2nd dose coming due, it'll be used in very little dose 1 going forward

Fingers crossed they'll let us take it (JJ) if we tick a waiver or something, I'd gladly take it as an early 20's, same with majority of my friends from conversations.

Mark1916

https://twitter.com/business/status/1395394066561519620?s=21

average_runner

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Looks like we're going to struggle to use 200k of J&J which means we could have potentially 400k+ doses that we can't use.

It's not great news to be honest. Will delay the rollout to u40s I think and we'll need more Pfizer to make up the shortfall

As for AZ, as I mentioned in comments the other day, looking at the numbers and 2nd dose coming due, it'll be used in very little dose 1 going forward

If we have doses left over, then we need to send them to less well off countries to help them

Rebelbrowser

adam240610 wrote: »

Fingers crossed they'll let us take it (JJ) if we tick a waiver or something, I'd gladly take it as an early 20's, same with majority of my friends from conversations.

With the passing of time and availability of more data NIAC might change advice to allow this. It would make sense to give the one shot vaccine to young people.
For now, it is too soon, and there is too little if any extra data, for NIAC to be able to credibly change the advice they gave only a couple of weeks ago that JJ wasn't suitable for u50's.

podgeandrodge

average_runner wrote: »

Yes side effects can happen with all. We don't know how our body will react. But from what I seen and who I talked to that gone through the process, AZ has more side effects. Doesn't mean everyone will get them

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And see I'm the opposite know more that had side effects with Pfizer. We can both give anecdotal examples.

Nobody can say 1 vaccine gives more side effects than the other. Everyone reacts differently.

You claimed being tired for 2 weeks is common with AZ, it is not. With any vaccine if the side effects are still there more than 2 days or so contact a GP

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/astrazeneca-and-pfizer-what-are-the-side-effects-f#:~:text=Systemic%20side%20effects%20(diarrhoea%2C%20fatigue,second%20respective%20dose%20of%20Pfizer.


Seems to be different types of side effects depending on vaccine:

Researchers had 627,383 people self-report their symptoms on the COVID Symptom Study app between 8 December and 10 March after receiving either their first or second dose of the Pfizer vaccine, or their first dose of AstraZeneca.

They found local side effects (pain, swelling, redness, itching, swollen armpit glands) affected two in three people, and were more common in Pfizer recipients. At least one symptom was reported by 71.9% of individuals after the first dose of Pfizer, 68.5% after the second dose, and by 58.7% after the first dose of AstraZeneca.

Systemic side effects (diarrhoea, fatigue, headache, chills, nausea) affected fewer than one in four people, but were more common with AstraZeneca, with at least one symptom reported by 33.7% after the first dose, compared to 13.5% and 22% after the first and second respective dose of Pfizer.

It found side effects are more common among women, people aged 55 years or younger, and after a second dose.

For example, 46.9% (AstraZeneca) and 20.7% (Pfizer) of people aged 55 years or younger reported at least one systemic effect after receiving their first dose, compared with 30.7% (AstraZeneca) and 10.6% (Pfizer) of those older than 55.

Red Silurian

keno-daytrader wrote: »

I have been a vocal critic of NIAC. Boards is a forum where people can voice their opinion, which is what I'm doing about NIAC.

No I dont think its a good news story. Anything to do with NIAC hasnt been a good news story for a long time.

I have to agree with you regards criticism of NIAC, except on this occasion where I think they're making the right call.. It's not me changing my mind because in fairness even a stopped clock is right twice a day

Unicorn Milk Latte

A new study about household transmission shows promising results that indicate that vaccination does indeed reduce transmission significantly.


Quote:
"These results show that the likelihood of household transmission is 40-50% lower for households in which the index cases are vaccinated 21 days or more prior to testing positive (compared to no vaccination), with similar effects for both ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and BNT162b2 vaccines."



Data and studies about how vaccines affect transmission are only just starting to come in, the picture will become clearer with time. But, as of now, first signs look pretty positive.

Goldengirl

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

With the passing of time and availability of more data NIAC might change advice to allow this. It would make sense to give the one shot vaccine to young people.
For now, it is too soon, and there is too little if any extra data, for NIAC to be able to credibly change the advice they gave only a couple of weeks ago that JJ wasn't suitable for u50's.

I doubt they will get that data most countries only giving J& J to older people now , if at all ?
Might be kept and used as a " mop up " vaccine for those who fall within approved age groups and somehow missed out on vaccination.
What a shame !

revelman

Mark1916 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/business/status/1395394066561519620?s=21

Does anyone know if Moderna has been delivering according to its contract? Is the problem not for us that we have not contracted for enough Moderna doses?

revelman

Goldengirl wrote: »

I doubt they will get that data most countries only giving J& J to older people now , if at all ?
Might be kept and used as a " mop up " vaccine for those who fall within approved age groups and somehow missed out on vaccination.
What a shame !

Germany is allowing any adult of any age to get AZ or J&J as long as they have spoken to their GP first. You get it in the GP. Plenty of young people are being vaccinated this way.

stephenjmcd

average_runner wrote: »

If we have doses left over, then we need to send them to less well off countries to help them

We will of course via covax but I find it uncomfortable to be honest that we've put ourselves in the position to have hundreds of thousands of doses of an effective vaccine that we can't / won't use

average_runner

stephenjmcd wrote: »

We will of course via covax but I find it uncomfortable to be honest that we've put ourselves in the position to have hundreds of thousands of doses of an effective vaccine that we can't / won't use

You be moaning if we didnt have enough also!!


We put in a few different orders, to cover ourselves, that is good planning. A shortfall is alot worst.

revelman

stephenjmcd wrote: »

We will of course via covax but I find it uncomfortable to be honest that we've put ourselves in the position to have hundreds of thousands of doses of an effective vaccine that we can't / won't use

We ordered many more million doses than we could possibly use. Most rich countries did the same. It was only a matter of when this would happen...

Vaccinated30

Degag wrote: »

But a proper process didn’t exist ‘to exercise their right?’

So you are calling people idiots because they are refusing a vaccine or is your issue the process in which they can refuse the vaccine dosnt exist.
You said they should take what they're given yet you accept they can refuse, so your issue is that the process didn't exist. But that has only become the problem since you have been told over and over thatits expert advice people in this age catagory can refuse and wait for an mrna.

Goldengirl

average_runner wrote: »

If we have doses left over, then we need to send them to less well off countries to help them

20000 vaccines destroyed by Malauwi health officials yesterday .
Apparently although they were ok to be used for another 6 weeks they had reached the official expiry date , so health minister made a point publicly throwing a batch of them in an incinerator , saying " no citizen in Malauwi will br given an expired vaccine " .

So if they are giving them away they need to do it quickly .

Vaccinated30

24 hours since second dose of Pfizer, arm is a tiny bit sore to touch but no side effects.

Furze99

Long past time to start sticking AZ & JJ vaccines in 30-60 yr olds. If I read one more smug FB boast - 'I just got Pfizered'........

Goldengirl

revelman wrote: »

Germany is allowing any adult of any age to get AZ or J&J as long as they have spoken to their GP first. You get it in the GP. Plenty of young people are being vaccinated this way.

I don't think NIAC will change the rules for people in that age group , especially if the risk of Covid is declining in the community .
If we had a surge in infections , maybe ...

ACitizenErased

revelman wrote: »

We ordered many more million doses than we could possibly use. Most rich countries did the same. It was only a matter of when this would happen...

It's unacceptable when the majority of the population don't have a dose imo.

Goldengirl

stephenjmcd wrote: »

We will of course via covax but I find it uncomfortable to be honest that we've put ourselves in the position to have hundreds of thousands of doses of an effective vaccine that we can't / won't use

Medicines sent from Western countries all the time , to poorer countries , no change there .
Better than wasting them tbh.

It is disappointing though . I know a lot of young people more scared of needles than Covid who would have loved a one shot dose of JJ and their freedom to travel back .

revelman

Goldengirl wrote: »

I don't think NIAC will change the rules for people in that age group , especially if the risk of Covid is declining in the community .
If we had a surge in infections , maybe ...

I think you are right but there is an interesting question here about the balance between paternalism and individual autonomy. If someone has given informed consent, what is the issue in them receiving an EMA-approved vaccine?

Rebelbrowser

ACitizenErased wrote: »

It's unacceptable when the majority of the population don't have a dose imo.

But the issue won't arise until mid June at earliest (and Paul Reid just now was doubtful enough about JJ supply full stop). Its likely to be end June / early July by the time we have a decent surplus of JJ and by themn I suspect we will be vaccinating our 20 somethings with MRNAs already.

Vaccinated30

Furze99 wrote: »

Long past time to start sticking AZ & JJ vaccines in 30-60 yr olds. If I read one more smug FB boast - 'I just got Pfizered'........

This girl is on pfiiiiiiizzzzeeeerrrr

Goldengirl

revelman wrote: »

I think you are right but there is an interesting question here about the balance between paternalism and individual autonomy. If someone has given informed consent, what is the issue in them receiving an EMA-approved vaccine?

It would be said that although consent is given , it is under the not insignificant duress, of people trying to get normality back , in a pandemic , and local health authorities who should be managing it better , " allowing" decisions to be made like that .

I don't agree with it , btw .
I think they could easily allow young men to have it at least as most issues in women .
Am just saying that is what is being taken into account here .
Consent has to be informed , tick, freely given , tick ,and not under any type of pressure or duress from outside / other agencies .....?

stephenjmcd

average_runner wrote: »

You be moaning if we didnt have enough also!!


We put in a few different orders, to cover ourselves, that is good planning. A shortfall is alot worst.

I'm well aware how many we ordered

Don't need that explained thanks.

My issue is with a perfectly good vaccine potentially sitting on a shelf when it arrives in June due to our ultra cautious nature, while we have sections of the population unvaccinated.

J&J should be opened up here much like the German plan

revelman

Goldengirl wrote: »

It would be said that although consent is given , it is under the not insignificant duress, of people trying to get normality back , in a pandemic , and local health authorities who should be managing it better , " allowing" decisions to be made like that .

I don't agree with it , btw .
I think they could easily allow young men to have it at least as most issues in women .
Am just saying that is what is being taken into account here .
Consent has to be informed , tick, freely given , tick ,and not under any type of pressure or duress from outside / other agencies .....?

I think you are almost touching on philosophical questions here! If you take your broad definition of pressure or duress, you might ask whether there is genuine consent for Pfizer. There is such a buzz everywhere about it being the “golden ticket” that people are rolling up their sleeves without even thinking about it. Is this a form of social influence affecting an individual’s consent under your definition?

Lumen

stephenjmcd wrote: »

My issue is with a perfectly good vaccine potentially sitting on a shelf when it arrives in June due to our ultra cautious nature

It's not ultra cautious to leave half the country walking around unvaccinated with unused vaccines in the fridges because the various authorities can't work with each other to get the logistics and messaging right. It's incompetent.

stephenjmcd

Goldengirl wrote: »

Medicines sent from Western countries all the time , to poorer countries , no change there .
Better than wasting them tbh.

It is disappointing though . I know a lot of young people more scared of needles than Covid who would have loved a one shot dose of JJ and their freedom to travel back .

I'm not questioning the sending of doses to poorer countries, I'm all for it. We have orders in for vaccines that aren't approved yet that we won't use, send them to poorer countries, absolutely

I'm disappointed we have a perfectly acceptable vaccine that'll arrive into country that at the moment we won't be able to use due to the conditions we've attached to it as a country when we'll still have large numbers of the population here unvaccinated.

It should be opened up in the same style as the Germans are doing