Is it cheating if...?

LegacyUser

Together 5 years, engaged 1 year

Found out he was going behind my back having sexual chats with other women on a site called Chatiw - a dating/hookup site according to Google.

Not sure how often he was going on it. Said he was sorry and it wont happen again.

Would you consider this cheating or not? I've cheated on him or any partner - emotionally, physically or otherwise.

(Few months later - we're in the process of breaking up for other reasons. He keeps accusing me of using the dating site thing as a "cudgel"...)

YellowLead

It’s the going being the back part that’s the killer. How can you trust somebody who did that and hid it? You’d always wonder if it was a prelude to physical cheating or indeed if the physical cheating also happened. Though the sexy chats with either women are a deal breaker on their own.
So yes I consider it cheating.

Sounds like there are a lot of issues there if you are breaking up for other reasons - so good call. Good luck!

Tork

This is the sort of thread where you're likely to see differing opinions. There are people who will say yes, it was a form of cheating. Even if he didn't physically cheat on you, there may have been an intent there. He seems to have been getting some sort of thrill out of it. This wasn't him knocking one out while looking at porn - it was him interacting with other people despite being engaged to you. Some people won't consider this behaviour to be a dealbreaker and that's fine. Everybody has their own boundaries. The only person whose boundaries count here is you. You aren't happy that he was using that dating/hookup site and that's fine. Let him complain all he wants about you using this as a cudgel - nobody forced him to sign up for and to use this site. He knew he was in the wrong.

Neyite

Everyone's yardstick is different. Me personally, I think any kind of hidden sexual chat or banter is dodgy territory and emotional cheating. My yardstick tends to be "If my partner was doing this with another woman, would it upset me or make me feel like he thinks our relationship wasn't important?" and I go by that.

Basically if you need to hide something, then either your relationship isn't working or you are doing something that you know would hurt your partner and/or damage your relationship.

People can argue semantics and split hairs all they like. But the upshot is that if you are going behind his/her back to flirt or chat intimately with another person, your partner has every right to decide they won't tolerate it in their relationship whatever label people put on it.

blue note

I'd try to avoid thinking of cheating as black and white, trying to find a point where it's cheating. In reality there's a spectrum of cheating / inappropriate behaviour. And for me, it's at the lower end. I can imagine a guy thinking of this as more like a form of porn than anything. There's no emotional connection, you probably don't even know what the other person looks like? I doubt it actually feels like there's a real person at the other end. He shouldn't do it of course, but I wouldn't dwell on it.

But that's me, he's not my fiance.

Caranica

If you're breaking up anyway (for other reasons) does it really matter whether it fits someone's definition of cheating or not?

Every couple has to set the boundaries of their own relationship. To some that would be cheating, but not to others.

Jequ0n

Your post contains very little information and yet enough to make the whole relationship sound questionable.
Is the actual problem whether this was cheating or not or that your indiscretions in the past have not been resolved properly?
Unless I misunderstood that messy post

Neyite

You can agree to disagree on the label. It doesn't matter. Any kind of behaviour you don't want in a relationship can be a deal breaker.

If he picks his nose he could argue it's the same as blowing it, or if he bites his toenails and argues it's technically a pedicure but you still have the right to disagree with him and find it revolting and not something you want to live with.

stuboy01

Meh, as others have said, this comes down to your expectation of a relationship.
if you think it's not acceptable, then it's not acceptable. simple.

As a man, I wouldn't do it, and i reckon if I did my wife would feel betrayed. If my wife did it, I would feel betrayed.
Would I feel that it was 'Cheating', probably not.
I think it would trigger a conversation about what the standards in the relationship are, if they weren't clear already.
We would move on with the expectation that if it happened again there would be more serious consequences for the relationship.

the fact it was done covertly, means he felt you wouldn't think it acceptable in your relationship. And I guess that's your answer. You made your thoughts clear on the matter. As far as you were concerned it was not acceptable. If he thinks it was acceptable, then your relationship parameters are off and you weren't suitable to each other, and maybe these other reasons you are breaking up are further evidence of that incompatibility.

also, some questions for you re his accusation of using it as a cudgel:

did he stop it and accept that it was no longer acceptable in the relationship? did he stick to that?
if he did...
did you bring it up in arguments about other things in a 'remember that time you...' manner

If he had stopped the behaviour, and you kept bringing it up, then there is a point of view that could say that was unfair on him, IF... it was all over with.
there is also another POV that would say you obviously weren't over it and it was still a scab nagging at you. which is understandable IMO.

Sorry I rambled on, I just got a bit carried away there.
I think in general you were both not suited to each other as this incident and (presumable) the other incident that caused your break up illustrates.

Best of luck. and apologies for the awful punctuation and lack of grammer /spell checking. (
I'm not being paid for this copywriting LOL)
S

listermint

Seems like an ad for the site. No ,?..

LegacyUser

Caranica wrote: »

If you're breaking up anyway (for other reasons) does it really matter whether it fits someone's definition of cheating or not?

We weren't breaking up at the time (a few months ago).

Jequ0n wrote:

Your post contains very little information and yet enough to make the whole relationship sound questionable.
Is the actual problem whether this was cheating or not or that your indiscretions in the past have not been resolved properly?
Unless I misunderstood that messy post

Well, I think it's fair to say I've been cheated on, and that he is a cheater. I just wanted other people's perspectives on this. The fact that he accuses me of using it as a "cudgel" makes me wary that he might be trying to rationalise me into an alternate reality where he didn't cheat on me and, in fact, *I'm* in the wrong. Gaslighting?

He dumped me two weeks ago because he finds me "exhausting" since I've become depressed over lockdown, and I drink too much.

LegacyUser

I just realized this should be in the Relationship Forum. Mods - feel free to move!

Jequ0n

I wonder is the purpose of the thread to get more ammunition for another cudgel

stuboy01

JiltedJane wrote: »

Well, I think it's fair to say I've been cheated on, and that he is a cheater. I just wanted other people's perspectives on this. The fact that he accuses me of using it as a "cudgel" makes me wary that he might be trying to rationalise me into an alternate reality where he didn't cheat on me and, in fact, *I'm* in the wrong. Gaslighting?

He dumped me two weeks ago because he finds me "exhausting" since I've become depressed over lockdown, and I drink too much.

If you think it's cheating then it's cheating to you. He obviously didn't think so. but in your first post you said he aknowledged the behaviour was wrong.

I guess it brings me back to the question in my other post.

Did you use it as a cudgel? did he apologise and then stop the behaviour, and did you keep bringing it up?

If he didn't stop it, then you were right to keep bringing it up.

however, if you had a 'clear the air', decided to move on together fresh, but you kept bringing it up, then that's bad form on your part.

TO be honest, if you want better feedback, you need to provide more context beyond a few short bullet points.


The 'depressed over lockdown' and 'drink too much' thing...now that's a different kettle of fish.
Myslef and the wife found ourselves drinking too much in the first lockdown. cue a lengthly spell off the drink to break the potential bad habit that was forming. It was a good decision.
Depression over lockdown is common, weather improving should help that, fingers crossed.

LegacyUser

stuboy01 wrote: »

If you think it's cheating then it's cheating to you. He obviously didn't think so. but in your first post you said he aknowledged the behaviour was wrong.

I guess it brings me back to the question in my other post.

Did you use it as a cudgel? did he apologise and then stop the behaviour, and did you keep bringing it up?

If he didn't stop it, then you were right to keep bringing it up.

however, if you had a 'clear the air', decided to move on together fresh, but you kept bringing it up, then that's bad form on your part.

TO be honest, if you want better feedback, you need to provide more context beyond a few short bullet points.

When it happened, we had a chat in which I forgave him and said I wanted to move on and not dwell on it. However a few times in the months after that there were moments where I berated him for it when my character/integrity was being called in to question.

I also feel kind of pathetic in the way I acted after confronting him. He looked so sad and sorry, that I started making excuses for him like "well we all have urges, it's only natural!" and even MYSELF APOLOGISING for, eg, not having bigger tits... In hindsight I feel angry at myself that I didn't give him more **** for it.

In fact, in hindsight I should have broken up with him. A cudgeling is the least he deserves after cheating on me.

In the recent breakup, I criticised him for not stand by me when I'm vulnerable (I've become depressed over lockdown and am drinking too much), even though I stood by him when he went on dating sites.

YellowLead

OP is there specific advise you are looking for here? It’s seems like you are just looking for affirmation that this was indeed cheating.

You said first you were currently in the process of breaking up, then in a later post that he dumped you 2 weeks ago. Surely it doesn’t matter at this stage who considered what cheating.

LegacyUser

JiltedJane wrote: »

Together 5 years, engaged 1 year

Found out he was going behind my back having sexual chats with other women on a site called Chatiw - a dating/hookup site according to Google.

Not sure how often he was going on it. Said he was sorry and it wont happen again.

Would you consider this cheating or not? I've cheated on him or any partner - emotionally, physically or otherwise.

(Few months later - we're in the process of breaking up for other reasons. He keeps accusing me of using the dating site thing as a "cudgel"...)

Meant to say I've *never* cheated on him or any partner, sorry if that caused confusion.

LegacyUser

YellowLead wrote: »

OP is there specific advise you are looking for here? It’s seems like you are just looking for affirmation that this was indeed cheating.

You said first you were currently in the process of breaking up, then in a later post that he dumped you 2 weeks ago. Surely it doesn’t matter at this stage who considered what cheating.

Yes, I am looking for affirmation and different perspectives, as it seems like my ex is trying to gaslight me into thinking he did nothing wrong.

We weren't breaking up at the time of the cheating (some months ago) but are breaking up as of two weeks ago.

YellowLead

JiltedJane wrote: »

Yes, I am looking for affirmation and different perspectives, as it seems like my ex is trying to gaslight me into thinking he did nothing wrong.

We weren't breaking up at the time of the cheating (some months ago) but are breaking up as of two weeks ago.

So just to clarify you haven’t broken up? It’s just on the cards?
Regardless if he feels that having sex chats behind your back wasn’t a dick move if it’s unacceptable to you (as it would be to most I imagine) then you are so better off without him.
Different if he accepted it was hurtful behaviour and was apologetic, for some people things might be salvageable if so, but it sounds like you are better off without him.

Jequ0n

Well for him it might not have counted as cheating, so nobody can answer this for you.
If he wanted to gaslight you properly he’d do it differently, making it your fault etc. Unless he is an amateur of course

Neyite

JiltedJane wrote: »

Yes, I am looking for affirmation and different perspectives, as it seems like my ex is trying to gaslight me into thinking he did nothing wrong.

We weren't breaking up at the time of the cheating (some months ago) but are breaking up as of two weeks ago.

He will continue to argue that he did nothing wrong and the break up is all your fault. You believe otherwise. He could be caught literally shagging someone and would still try and argue semantics over why it wasn't technically cheating or why your behaviour was worse. You'll never agree on it and honestly, he's not even worth your energy.



The best thing you can do for you is complete the break up asap. Disengage. Sort our who's getting what, move out and block him on every bit of social media you can think of. And focus on you getting over this. Ruminating over who dealt the deathblow to what sounds like a dying relationship is pointless and draining.

LegacyUser

Jequ0n wrote: »

Well for him it might not have counted as cheating, so nobody can answer this for you.
If he wanted to gaslight you properly he’d do it differently, making it your fault etc. Unless he is an amateur of course

When I initially confronted him, he was sad and apologetic and conceded that he wouldn't stand for it if I did it to him (I know this for a fact based on his personality and values) and that he'd understand if I wanted to end things there and then.

Recently he seems to be taking a different tune, making out like I'm the villain for still being mad about it.

YellowLead

OP i suppose if he was apologetic and accepted he was in the wrong, gave you the opportunity to dump him but you decided to forgive and continue, yet couldn’t let it go - I can see why he would be miffed! You can’t accept an apology and then keep on berating him for it - that what I think anyway.

Tork

Jane, this relationship sounds like it is over. Do you have to do much in order to tidy up the odds and ends?

Jequ0n

JiltedJane wrote: »

When I initially confronted him, he was sad and apologetic and conceded that he wouldn't stand for it if I did it to him (I know this for a fact based on his personality and values) and that he'd understand if I wanted to end things there and then.

Recently he seems to be taking a different tune, making out like I'm the villain for still being mad about it.

That’s not necessarily gaslighting and sounds more like there was no point in continuing the relationship if you could not move past this. That’s not your fault as such but he was right to end it if the relationship could not be salvaged.

Just accept it and move on

Rubberchikken

I don't think the relationship sounds healthy.
He goes into some chat site, you can't decide if he's cheated on you or not.

When he brings up some issue, you in turn bring up his chat site history.

You mention you're drinking too much during lockdown.
Issues need to be addressed. You have to decide which one to deal with first and when.

Good luck

JustAThought

Tork wrote: »

This is the sort of thread where you're likely to see differing opinions. There are people who will say yes, it was a form of cheating. Even if he didn't physically cheat on you, there may have been an intent there. He seems to have been getting some sort of thrill out of it. This wasn't him knocking one out while looking at porn - it was him interacting with other people despite being engaged to you. Some people won't consider this behaviour to be a dealbreaker and that's fine. Everybody has their own boundaries. The only person whose boundaries count here is you. You aren't happy that he was using that dating/hookup site and that's fine. Let him complain all he wants about you using this as a cudgel - nobody forced him to sign up for and to use this site. He knew he was in the wrong.

‘knocking one out while looking at porn’ IS interacting with other people sexually and being emotionally dishonest - all while being engaged to you.

I’d also say that his ‘cudgel’ whining is what you may expect if you take him to task in the future - he was caught, he should man up and apologise - but no - he is whining like a little schoolboy and complaining - you are now the subject and somehow he is the victim. Not a good foundation for 10/20/30 year marriage and lifelong ‘commitment’. Do you want many other different third parties and sexual dishonesty in your marriage OP? It’s NOT normal and IMO it’s bot acceptable. Not is victim shaming and victim blaming when caught.

He now realises his behaviour or pattern of behaviour with porn sites/escort sites/ sexual chat sites is never going to be tolerated and is cut away from him forever if he wants marriage and FIDELITY and MONOGAMY will have to be his choices and so now he is finding anything he can to blame you and break up. IMO he really wants to have his cake and eat it - nice marriage with sexchats and online hookup with random women and a partner who if she finds out will shrug it off or let him carry on regardless. Looking hurt and upset and sorry is a well learned schoolboy tactic. Behaving like a man and being a supportive companion through tough times is a mans job. Maybe you need to find a real one - and not the self engrossed, selfish, blaming, whining man-child who has attached himself to
you - while sexting and going behind your back with other women. God knows what you don’t know about. Sure we all eat & drink too much during lockdown and the media is full of suport because they acknowledge its difficult and challenging. Tell your man child you are depressed because you found out by accident the life partner you loved and thought you would spend the reat of your life with was a liar and a cheat. He didn’t have that additional burden to put up with because he already knew he was a
liar and a cheat - you were under the impression he was an honest and loving partner - imagine your surprise when you discovered by accident he was unfaithful, emotionally unavailable, searching the internet for slappers for hire to sex with and scurrying around behind your back sexting them and having online sex games and sex fantasies with them. No wonder you’re depressed. Tell him
that - and tell him you will tell his family and parents too what kind of a man he is and what he did to you. He sounds like a selfish, lying, manipulitive wanker. You will find someone deserving of your affections and love and someone who will be loyal to you and faithful - - not someone scurrying around looking online for someone to cheat with and then daring to blame you for being upset and having a few drinks - you deserve better than this.

YellowLead

JustAThought wrote: »

‘knocking one out while looking at porn’ IS interacting with other people sexually and being emotionally dishonest - all while being engaged to you..

I hate to go off topic but seriously? Watching porn is being emotionally dishonest?? I would have imagine most people are fine with their partners watching porn (unless they are addicted and it’s interfering with their lives). I would expect a man I was with to watch it, I do myself. I would be surprised to find out if a guy didn’t but maybe that’s just me!

JustAThought

YellowLead wrote: »

I hate to go off topic but seriously? Watching porn is being emotionally dishonest?? I would have imagine most people are fine with their partners watching porn (unless they are addicted and it’s interfering with their lives). I would expect a man I was with to watch it, I do myself. I would be surprised to find out if a guy didn’t but maybe that’s just me!

Watching porn and fantasising over someone else is NOT normal in a relationship and it is not acceptable. You may think its fine and you may be desentisised to it for for the majority of normal people is is cheating and not normal and not acceptable. Would you watch it in front of your mother or father on a friday evening with a take away? Or with your children? Do you want your daughter to be a sex product or ‘work’ being raped and exploited for others entertainment? Doubt that either. Nor do I accept that someone watching their husband/wife fantasise while watching someone else have sex is not damaging to them - thinner, more muscles, more hair, better condition, better shape - why not me etc. As well as being emotionally scarring. Do you think your parents are in different rooms at night watching people paid to have sex for their amusement & then brush their teeth & head off to bed normally together & nothing is wrong? No. And for good reasons. Betrayal, dishonesty, emotional deception, emotional unavailability, comparison. None of it is good. Which is why its not acceptable. And which is probably why the OP was so upset and finding her fiance going behind her back and looking for strangers and sexting ‘strangers’ - with images - over the internet as he lay in bed promising to love her and be faithful to her for life and making love to her - or with her and to whomever he was thinking of at the time..

YellowLead

JustAThought wrote: »

Watching porn and fantasising over someone else is NOT normal in a relationship and it is not acceptable. You may think its fine and you may be desentisised to it for for the majority of normal people is is cheating and not normal and not acceptable. Would you watch it in front of your mother or father on a friday evening with a take away? Or with your children? Do you want your daughter to be a sex product or ‘work’ being raped and exploited for others entertainment? Doubt that either. Nor do I accept that someone watching their husband/wife fantasise while watching someone else have sex is not damaging to them - thinner, more muscles, more hair, better condition, better shape - why not me etc. As well as being emotionally scarring. Do you think your parents are in different rooms at night watching people paid to have sex for their amusement & then brush their teeth & head off to bed normally together & nothing is wrong? No. And for good reasons. Betrayal, dishonesty, emotional deception, emotional unavailability, comparison. None of it is good. Which is why its not acceptable. And which is probably why the OP was so upset and finding her fiance going behind her back and looking for strangers and sexting ‘strangers’ - with images - over the internet as he lay in bed promising to love her and be faithful to her for life and making love to her - or with her and to whomever he was thinking of at the time..

I agree that the sex chats with real women were wrong and I said that it would be unacceptable for me - but I don’t understand why you lump it in the same bag as watching porn!

When I watch porn I am not fantasising about having sex with the guy on screen, they are always pretty gross IMO. It’s the act itself - watching it is a turn on and imagining doing it with my partner.
Also - I’m very confident and think I look better than most of the women on screen - but perhaps if you are insecure like yourself it could be damaging. However nobody I know minds it, so I think it’s more unusual to be bugged by it. It is possibly a generational thing (I’m imagining you much older than me), or a religious thing but at the end of the day I think it comes down to insecurity - if you feel you’re not good enough for your partner or something.

And no, to answer your bizarre question - I wouldn’t watch porn with my mother - because I’m not in a sexual relationship with her!!!! Not doing something because we wouldn’t do it with our parents is a bizzare way to figure out what’s acceptable!

stuboy01

OP, sounds like you're well rid. You were not compatible with each other. Time to move on. Don't get caught up in the whole idea that he's trying to normalise his behaviour in the relationship and criticise yours. It's not worth your time and you'll just go into a mental tailspin which wouldn't be good considering lockdown depression and drinking.
He won't change his perspective, and you won't. Move on.

Try going dry for a few weeks if you're drinking too much at present. trust me, it works. I'm back to a more normal drinking pattern after my dry period. it broke the potential bad habit forming. filled the void with regular exercise, worked a treat with the mental outlook too as a nice byproduct.

NOW...JustAThought...that's some unload there. Where do we start. maybe your own thread?
There's nothing wrong with your outlook, that's your opinion.
I'm not really a fan of porn either, exploitation happens, but not always. and people that watch occasional porn are not depraved sex criminals as your post seems to imply.

JustAThought wrote: »

Would you watch it in front of your mother or father on a friday evening with a take away? Or with your children?

No, but i presume you wouldn't have sex in front of your parents or children either. or masturbate, or poo, or clip your toenails, or pick your nose.
Does that mean you shouldn't have sex? or masturbate? or clip your toenails? poo?
ok, fair enough, you shouldn't pick your nose in private either.

Now, maybe you do have sex in front of your parents, and I'm not criticising your life choices but, that wouldn't be for me TBH. And I guess that's the whole point here, everyone has different standards in relationships and its all about finding the right type of person that fits with your outlook.

Jequ0n

@Justathought

Thank you, this has to be the funniest and totally OT comment I have read here for a while

Hannibal_Smith

Your thread title and opening post ask whether sexting is cheating. You then say:-

In fact, in hindsight I should have broken up with him. A cudgeling is the least he deserves after cheating on me.

So you've already decided that for you it is cheating. He was apologetic initially - as you'd expect. And you've decided further down the line, months later that the punishment didn't fit the crime. That's all perfectly understandable. I'd say it came as a shock and the true extent of how hurt you were became clearer to you as the shock wore off.

You're calling him your ex and are in the middle of breaking up over something else. Finalise the break up, put all your energies into that. What is the point of revisiting a score card where he didn't support you in X, while you supported him in Y. There's no point, the relationship is ending. Asking for opinions to back up your side of the argument is not going to do you any favours. Let it go. It's not like you're working to salvage anything. As I say, concentrate on getting everything organised regarding the break up and look forward, not back.

ILoveYourVibes

For me yes. But that is my definition.

However ultimately cheating is something couples must define for themselves. Some people don't even consider extra marital sex cheating. But only emotional affairs ..and some are ok with affairs.

But it would certainly give an insight into his character.

Big Bag of Chips

I honestly think you need to just continue with the break up, move on and don't look back. You think one thing, he thinks another. Neither of you are going to talk the other round. You now just both want to be more right than the other. It'll only result in you both getting more and more frustrated and making the break up nastier than it needs to be.

Keep your dignity. Stop discussing it. It's irrelevant now. You're breaking up.

Opinions you get will always depend on whose opinion it is. Someone who would do this in a relationship will always think it's not cheating, because they need to justify it to people who think it is in fact cheating.

You're breaking up. Walk away and don't get dragged down by throwing dirt at each other. He doesn't care whether or not you think it was cheating. He doesn't care. That's why he did it at the time.

Airyfairy12

You draw your own boundaries, if you consider it cheating and it's a deal breaker for you thats all that matters. By the sounds of it he's not taking any responsibility for the hurt he's caused you. That to me personally would be the red flag because that shows to me he doesnt care about your feelings.
It sounds like you have other issues besides this too and he is not willing to meet you half way. How long have you been having difficulties? Could this all be a result of the covid situation or has there been problems in your relationship before this?

Why are you with him? Do you love him, does he make you happy? Or have a fear of being alone?

If it was me, my concern would be breaking up in 10, 15, 20 years realising you should never married this person and having to go through a long drawn out, costly divorce or worse, spend your life miserable wondering where you'd be if youd just left the relationship when you had the chance.