World Snooker Championship 2021

B2021M

raclle wrote: »

I also agree with Ronnie's comments. Do ya reckon players watch these discussions and maybe heed some advice from it? Being out there I can only imagine how easy it is to get sucked into Selby's game

It has some merit but im not sure how a player avoids it? Just taking on chances isnt going to necessarily work either?

volono

Missed Ronnie speaking. What did he say?

Emperor.

raclle wrote: »

I also agree with Ronnie's comments. Do ya reckon players watch these discussions and maybe heed some advice from it? Being out there I can only imagine how easy it is to get sucked into Selby's game

No they don't

It's like the posters over on the gangland forum asking if the cops get info from it

~Rebel~

Emperor. wrote: »

No they don't

It's like the posters over on the gangland forum asking if the cops get info from it

It's not really... one is a niche forum on the internet, the other is one of two major nationally broadcast programs watched by all your friends and family, covering what you personally did that day.

So I'd say some take a look, and some try to avoid as best they can.

Girly Gal

Selby is a master at grinding down his opponent, his style of play works best in the longer form matches at the crucible, in almost every frame, even frames he loses he manages to get under his opponents skin more and more, you could see this evening even when I think it was 7-7 all, Murphy was starting to crack, by the end of the session he was a beaten man and was lucky play was over for the day. His only hope is to get a good start tomorrow, needs to win a few quick frames and try not to get dragged into Selby's safety battle which is very hard to do. It's very hard to see anything but Selby winning from here

Strumms

Girly Gal wrote: »

Selby is a master at grinding down his opponent, his style of play works best in the longer form matches at the crucible, in almost every frame, even frames he loses he manages to get under his opponents skin more and more, you could see this evening even when I think it was 7-7 all, Murphy was starting to crack, by the end of the session he was a beaten man and was lucky play was over for the day. His only hope is to get a good start tomorrow, needs to win a few quick frames and try not to get dragged into Selby's safety battle which is very hard to do. It's very hard to see anything but Selby winning from here

See Ronnie issuing sage advice along the same lines... basically not to get dragged into that safety endurance BS battle, be proactive and every ball he puts safe by the cushion, remove it.

First session crucial, 3-1 minimum for Murphy, got to be, needs to change it up. Selby is a grinder, quite uneasy style to enjoy, can’t warm to him.

gormdubhgorm

B2021M wrote: »

That's interesting! Im really not sure he should be doing commentary...he has never won a ranking event?

Nope Lisowski has not.

BonnieSituation

tanko wrote: »

I wouldn't worry, watch all of Line of duty and you'll only miss two or three re-racks and half a frame in the snooker.

Why do you even watch the sport?

It's like you can't deal with anything that's not some sort of fantasy match of Alex Higgins Vs Jimmy White?

If you're getting nothing out of this tournament, maybe snooker isn't for you. Just throwing it out there.

BonnieSituation

dobman88 wrote: »

It's his normal look imo. And one of the reasons I find it hard to like him. By all accounts from lads I know who have met him a bunch of times, he's a genuinely nice guy but I just think he comes across as trying to be almost too nice that it seems fake or forced.

Dunno what it is but find it hard to warm to him.

You know I appreciate your opinions on a lot of things, Especially your love for the Dubs, but i don't understand this dislike for Shuaneen at all that you and others seem to have.

BonnieSituation

Rothko wrote: »

TBH, if the dress code is enough to put someone off snooker, then I doubt that they would've made a career out of it anyway.

Agreed. I don't know what this rush to change certain aspects of sports so the "Casual" fan can enjoy it.

Waistcoats and dickie bows aren't why snooker has fallen back. Simply lack of coverage is all. The difference that the BBC upping their coverage this year Vs the last decade of lip service has made a difference.

If someone is turned off by the rigouts, then the likelihood I'd they weren't watching it anyway.

I'm tired of sport conforming to these phantom fans and pissing off those of us who are there day in and day out be it snooker, soccer, rugby etc.

My 20yo brother isn't watching snooker because of the dickie bows. Likewise my dad hasn't watched a frame of the game since the 80s. It's got nowt to do with attire. But it would annoy me if it was changed. Traditions are important.

Wimbledon or test cricket not wearing whites to be "cool" would be daft, so why the fúck should snooker do it.

Joe_ Public

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Nope Lisowski has not.

Selby out in the arena giving a masterclass in matchplay snooker, while the two boys perform trick shots on the studio table for the youth audience, like circus clowns, with some pretty tame patter in between. Still, judd does have his world title i suppose so cant take that away from him at least.

If selby was to go on and win there'd be a near £1m turnaround at the top of the rankings and he'd be right on judds coattails for No.1 spot again, less than 100k in it which would make for an interesting narrative next season.

Brian?

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Selby out in the arena giving a masterclass in matchplay snooker, while the two boys perform trick shots on the studio table for the youth audience, like circus clowns, with some pretty tame patter in between. Still, judd does have his world title i suppose so cant take that away from him at least.

If selby was to go on and win there'd be a near £1m turnaround at the top of the rankings and he'd be right on judds coattails for No.1 spot again, less than 100k in it which would make for an interesting narrative next season.

I watched one “Jack and Judd” segment yesterday where they played some easy show off shots. I have no idea what he point of it was. They didn’t even explain how they hit the shot.

That’s me done with bbc for another year.

Brian?

As for the final itself. It’s done as a contest.

I admire Selby’s patience and ability. He’s a phenomenal tactical player, excellent long potter and a very good break builder.

I don’t like watching him play though. The agonising over simple shots is too much for me. I love the tactical side of the game, it’s always been my own strength. I’ve no long game and am a mediocre break builder, but I’ve won plenty of frames down the years with tactical play. You can play great safety quickly though. Ronnie, Williams, Trump, Wilson and Higgins are great safety players these days. Higgins always was. But they don’t take a minute over every simple shot.

I’d say Wilson plays better safety than Selby. He plays attacking safeties, Selby takes a minute
To play a high percentage shot.

flasher0030

Can't wait for the action to kick off today.
I have really warmed to Selby. The tactical side of snooker for me is so much more interesting than just rattling off the century plus breaks - especially towards the closing part of the key matches when they are close. I find it fascinating to see who can handle the pressure most. Hopefully, we end up with a close battle this evening.
Selby is some machine. It's like he has ice running through his veins. He looks wrecked when he sits in his corner with his sulk. But then can just rise up and hypnotise his opponent into playing out of their comfort zone. Right now I hope that Selby triumphs, but this evening if Murphy is couple of frames behind in the run-in, I can see myself swaying towards the underdog.

buzzing147

Strumms wrote: »

See Ronnie issuing sage advice along the same lines... basically not to get dragged into that safety endurance BS battle, be proactive and every ball he puts safe by the cushion, remove it.

First session crucial, 3-1 minimum for Murphy, got to be, needs to change it up. Selby is a grinder, quite uneasy style to enjoy, can’t warm to him.

Yea murphy looked flustered and confused by the end, he has no safety game, needs to come out today refreshed and attack the game, and fist pump frame wins, needs win first session 3-1. Game on then. A bingham murphy final would been lot better cause there's beef there and would of been a scoring feast.

Don't know that the match is over yet. Every session is different. If Murphy keeps his head straight and sticks to his plan, he could easily start climbing his way back into the game. Selby isn't finishing frames off in one go, so there is still leeway for Murphy.

walshb

Anyone else getting the vibe that all the commentary on Selby is backhanded praise. Like they’re praising his brilliance but bemoaning how he does it. He is playing all aspects of the game. Every facet...

And it’s like they don’t like some parts and it’s annoying them..

walshb

walshb wrote: »

And it’s like they don’t like some parts and it’s annoying them..

I suppose they are coming at it from the 'televisual spectacular' angle, which means big breaks.



Easy to condemn his style, but I think it's genius.. he can make top players play like headless chickens. That's not his 'fault'.. it's the other players' faults if they can't handle it.

Joe_ Public

Brian? wrote: »

I watched one “Jack and Judd” segment yesterday where they played some easy show off shots. I have no idea what he point of it was. They didn’t even explain how they hit the shot.

That’s me done with bbc for another year.

It's the mental image i have when i imagine what it was like in the years they spent practicing together, with Liang Wenbo in there as well, smashing the balls around, having a bit of fun. It may just be pure coincidence but there was a very definite improvement in judds all round game and attitude after he quit that particular set-up.

walshb

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

I suppose they are coming at it from the 'televisual spectacular' angle, which means big breaks.



Easy to condemn his style, but I think it's genius.. he can make top players play like headless chickens. That's not his 'fault'.. it's the other players' faults if they can't handle it.

He has no style. Just a complete snooker player..

Commentary talking about him not leaving shots on and stuff. It’s like they are criticising him for playing great safety shots that leave his opponent in bother, as opposed to maybe opening reds and tempting his opponents into pots.

corcaigh07

Anyone get tickets for next year?

Brian?

walshb wrote: »

He has no style. Just a complete snooker player..

Commentary talking about him not leaving shots on and stuff. It’s like they are criticising him for playing great safety shots that leave his opponent in bother, as opposed to maybe opening reds and tempting his opponents into pots.

I really don't think that's the case. They are constantly fawning over his tactical play.

walshb

Brian? wrote: »

I really don't think that's the case. They are constantly fawning over his tactical play.

Yes, but backhanded. That is my point. Seems to be a but and and if floating around d..

As well as them highlighting it so much..

mdwexford

corcaigh07 wrote: »

Anyone get tickets for next year?

Yeah I just got mine.

Can’t wait to get back there after a two year break with the pandemic. Hopefully things are fully back to normal by next April.

paulie21

Yep got tickets for 4 sessions of quarter finals. Hopefully be able to go now

corcaigh07

I was hoping to sneak a pair for a Sunday session of the final, only singles there when I got on.

Went for a pair on the Saturday night for the last session of the last semi final instead, happy enough.

DelBoy Trotter

corcaigh07 wrote: »

Anyone get tickets for next year?

Yeah, got tickets for 4 sessions over 2 days in the first round. It'll be my first time going. Anybody got any recommendations on where to stay?

walshb

Murphy really needs a minimum 5-3 afternoon session to give himself a good chance in the evening

Brian?

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but backhanded. That is my point. Seems to be a but and and if floating around d..

As well as them highlighting it so much..

I disagree, but then I don't watch BBC much

B2021M

Selby is a complete snooker player and since very early on in his career it was apparent he had the ability to win the world championship. He is not unbeatable, however, and has lost early in the Crucible many times too.

Ronnie last night saying Murphy should go out and 'bust up the reds' is pure farce imo....there is no evidence he is more likely to win such frames. Like any match Murphy needs to play the situation as much as his opponent. If he has the ability to win then he will. If he doesnt he wont (and to be honest i never saw him as a multiple world champion but he has played well at times this week).

ArmaniJeanss

Understandable that the focus is on his safety and strangulation. but surprised to see no mention of the plants Selby took on.
Some of them were 3 ball plants with gaps between both links, and he put them into the middle of the pocket each time. I don't think there's many other players who take these on, or even see them. Quite a weapon to have.

Enjoyable session - I'd be very much Team Selby though, so can accept that the majority here didn't enjoy it as much.

A random tip for those with a Sky or UPC box - don't watch live, record it and start watching an hour after the session starts. Then hit the 30 second skip every so often (e.g when you know a shot is going to take ages, or a foul & a miss ball reset) and you'll have caught up by about the 6th frame and saved yourself some frustration.

B2021M

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Understandable that the focus is on his safety and strangulation. but surprised to see no mention of the plants Selby took on.
Some of them were 3 ball plants with gaps between both links, and he put them into the middle of the pocket each time. I don't think there's many other players who take these on, or even see them. Quite a weapon to have.

Enjoyable session - I'd be very much Team Selby though, so can accept that the majority here didn't enjoy it as much.

A random tip for those with a Sky or UPC box - don't watch live, record it and start watching an hour after the session starts. Then hit the 30 second skip every so often (e.g when you know a shot is going to take ages, or a foul & a miss ball reset) and you'll have caught up by about the 6th frame and saved yourself some frustration.

If a person feels this way they shouldnt watch snooker. Can they not learn about what shot to play or how to get out of a snooker by looking at the player? If not just record Jack's matches and watch balls being potted all day.

loyatemu

the difference between Selby and some of the previous players who had a reputation for being "grinders" such as Ebdon, Thorburn or Ken; is that they did it out of necessity, they weren't at the same level as some of their contemporaries when it came to breakbuilding and long potting (not that they were bad, but Thorburn wasn't in the same league as Davis or White in the 80s etc).

Selby though is as good as anyone, he could play a more attacking style (and I feel he was more attacking in the past before his recent-ish slump). He just doesn't like taking risks and it's working for him; he's got a superb safety game and he's using it to crush Murphy in this match.

Cetyl Palmitate

corcaigh07 wrote: »

Anyone get tickets for next year?

Got a ticket for the 1st session of the final. Just individual one left but got one right behind the players chair.
Never been before. Looking forward to it already!

Joe_ Public

loyatemu wrote: »

the difference between Selby and some of the previous players who had a reputation for being "grinders" such as Ebdon, Thorburn or Ken; is that they did it out of necessity, they weren't at the same level as some of their contemporaries when it came to breakbuilding and long potting (not that they were bad, but Thorburn wasn't in the same league as Davis or White in the 80s etc).

Selby though is as good as anyone, he could play a more attacking style (and I feel he was more attacking in the past before his recent-ish slump). He just doesn't like taking risks and it's working for him; he's got a superb safety game and he's using it to crush Murphy in this match.

I don't entirely disagree with that, but i would never lump Ken in with a list of grinders like Cliff Thorburn. He could be very tactical but could mix it with the best of them any way, while he was at his best. The only player as far as i know to have lifted the world amateur, u/21 and world titles. Just a senior title to complete the list! Ken was a prolific talent. And even ebdon, there was a terrific freeflowing, flamboyant potter in his early days, but just developed into the player we most remember in the course of his career.

zuutroy

corcaigh07 wrote: »

I was hoping to sneak a pair for a Sunday session of the final, only singles there when I got on.

Went for a pair on the Saturday night for the last session of the last semi final instead, happy enough.

See you there! I have the afternoon on Saturday as well....all carried over since last year. It will be 3 years between booking them and using them :eek:

AllForIt

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Understandable that the focus is on his safety and strangulation. but surprised to see no mention of the plants Selby took on.
Some of them were 3 ball plants with gaps between both links, and he put them into the middle of the pocket each time. I don't think there's many other players who take these on, or even see them. Quite a weapon to have.

.

The comes from his pool playing and has served him well in snooker over the years. Mulitiball ball plants, knocking a ball in off anohter one, 'inventive' safety shots. He's alwyas been by far the best at all that.

loyatemu

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I don't entirely disagree with that, but i would never lump Ken in with a list of grinders like Cliff Thorburn. He could be very tactical but could mix it with the best of them any way, while he was at his best. The only player as far as i know to have lifted the world amateur, u/21 and world titles. Just a senior title to complete the list! Ken was a prolific talent. And even ebdon, there was a terrific freeflowing, flamboyant potter in his early days, but just developed into the player we most remember in the course of his career.

similar to Selby so - started playing a more attacking style, became more defensive/cautious and tactical as time went on.

Ken was obviously an excellent all-round player, but he was also not quite at the same level as some of his contemporaries like Ronnie, Higgins and MJW.

begbysback

loyatemu wrote: »

the difference between Selby and some of the previous players who had a reputation for being "grinders" such as Ebdon, Thorburn or Ken; is that they did it out of necessity, they weren't at the same level as some of their contemporaries when it came to breakbuilding and long potting (not that they were bad, but Thorburn wasn't in the same league as Davis or White in the 80s etc).

Selby though is as good as anyone, he could play a more attacking style (and I feel he was more attacking in the past before his recent-ish slump). He just doesn't like taking risks and it's working for him; he's got a superb safety game and he's using it to crush Murphy in this match.

Very true, comparing Selby to those guys is apples and oranges, Selby uses safety as an option, he’s probably the most interesting to watch from a psychological standpoint, out of all players I’ve seen it’s actually Selby who watches his opponent most of all, and is aware of how his opponent is feeling throughout matches, if he believes safety will make his opponent suffer more then that’s what he will do. He doesn’t just pot balls, he plays the game.

Joe_ Public

loyatemu wrote: »

similar to Selby so - started playing a more attacking style, became more defensive/cautious and tactical as time went on.

Ken was obviously an excellent all-round player, but he was also not quite at the same level as some of his contemporaries like Ronnie, Higgins and MJW.

True. Ronnie, higgins & Willo are generally regarded as being among the top 5 or 6 of all time so Ken wasn't quite at that level.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I don't entirely disagree with that, but i would never lump Ken in with a list of grinders like Cliff Thorburn. He could be very tactical but could mix it with the best of them any way, while he was at his best. The only player as far as i know to have lifted the world amateur, u/21 and world titles. Just a senior title to complete the list! Ken was a prolific talent. And even ebdon, there was a terrific freeflowing, flamboyant potter in his early days, but just developed into the player we most remember in the course of his career.

Ken was great, but lacked the real one visit type talent of others, so he usually had to mix it up with tactics and safety and breaks..

He won so many frames with 2-3-4 table visits..

He seemed to lose position more than some of the others..

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Ken was great, but lacked the real one visit type talent of others, so he usually had to mix it up with tactics and safety and breaks..

He won so many frames with 2-3-4 table visits..

He seemed to lose position more than some of the others..

Right, he's only around 15th on the all time list of career centuries so that might suggest it otherwise. Anyway, kens not in the final so going to leave talk of his career until he wins the senior title later this week.

AllForIt

B2021M wrote: »

Selby is a complete snooker player and since very early on in his career it was apparent he had the ability to win the world championship. He is not unbeatable, however, and has lost early in the Crucible many times too.

I agree, and I don't get this 'Selby can't be beaten' attitude you always hear when he's in the latter stages of a tournament. It's so pessimisitic, and I still think Murphy can win this match. Selbys form can dip just like everyone elses can.

Ronnie last night saying Murphy should go out and 'bust up the reds' is pure farce imo....there is no evidence he is more likely to win such frames. Like any match Murphy needs to play the situation as much as his opponent. If he has the ability to win then he will. If he doesnt he wont (and to be honest i never saw him as a multiple world champion but he has played well at times this week).

Well, he did do just that himself in the semi-final last year and he did beat Selby in the end. His poiint about 'bashing up the ball' is to completely change the situation that is getting the frame bogged down in a tactical safety exchange.

Ronnies point I think is that you are going to loose the tactical safety battle with Selby anyway, so you may as well try someting else where it might work out and if it doesn't you still get to avoid a long drawn out exchange that would put you off your stride.

Brian?

AllForIt wrote: »

I agree, and I don't get this 'Selby can't be beaten' attitude you always hear when he's in the latter stages of a tournament. It's so pessimisitic, and I still think Murphy can win this match. Selbys form can dip just like everyone elses can.



Well, he did do just that himself in the semi-final last year and he did beat Selby in the end. His poiint about 'bashing up the ball' is to completely change the situation that is getting the frame bogged down in a tactical safety exchange.

Ronnies point I think is that you are going to loose the tactical safety battle with Selby anyway, so you may as well try someting else where it might work out and if it doesn't you still get to avoid a long drawn out exchange that would put you off your stride.

Selby can absolutely be beaten. Just not by Shaun Murphy in a best of 35 Match. Murphy has played some great stuff to get to the final but he hasn't got the gravy to beat Selby. When Selby is in this form very few people do.

Murphy couldn't even capitalise when he was let in last night, he can't click into gear after being kept off the table for long periods the way Ronnie, Higgins or Hendry would.

ArmaniJeanss

Just because 'bash the balls' happened to work for Ronnie doesn't make it a sensible idea.

Its the equivalent of pushing your big centre-half up top when you are a 2-0 down with 5 minutes to go, or shoving all-in blind in poker when short-stacked.
People reminisce the time it worked but forget the multiple occasions it failed.

Could argue that even in this event it's been tried and failed a few times already - in particular Mark Williams attempted it against Selby.

Addle

What’s the best channel for coverage?
We watch mostly bbc, but I tune in to Eurosport now and then just to see Roscommon native Rachel Casey.

dobman88

Addle wrote: »

What’s the best channel for coverage?
We watch mostly bbc, but I tune in to Eurosport now and then just to see Roscommon native Rachel Casey.

Overall, its been Eurosport. They've shown every match live I think, between TV and player while BBC have cut coverage in the middle of a frame or started late and missed frames to show some nonsense.

For the final BBC would be the best imo. They show the whole lot. Analysis and comms are good and they have no ads so they do interviews and player profiles when there's a break in play.

Augme

Seemed an extremely uneccessary decision from murphy to break up the pack of the yellow. Almost like he was just trying to send Selby a message and it has now back fired badly.

sligeach

You can't win a frame in "one hit" Alan. One visit? Yes.

The Nal

Addle wrote: »

What’s the best channel for coverage?
We watch mostly bbc, but I tune in to Eurosport now and then just to see Roscommon native Rachel Casey.

BBC iPlayer. Show everything. No ads either. Also enjoying Trump and Lisowski.