World Snooker Championship 2021

gormdubhgorm

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

Is Selby's bird Irish or Irish descent?

Born in Ipswich played pool for Ireland.

SharpshooterTom

Any chance of Selby going on to become GOAT?

Strumms

Augme wrote: »

I think that last res Shaun missed probably dinner up the difference between the two players. I don't think Selby would have went for it and if he did, he's have made sure to give it enough to not leave it over the pocket. Given the struggle Selby was having you'd have to feel forcing him to battle for the title at that stage would have been the smart decision.

It was an all or nothing shot, I think if he’s four frames down, maybe , but given he was again in touching distance I was surprised.

skinny90

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Half a mill!


Not a bad day's work!!

It’s not great all things considered

Skid X

They should play the proper music in full for old times sake

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Enjoyed that match thoroughly. The best man won, but Murph certainly did give it his all.

Fantastic tournament overall.

The withdrawals tomorrow will be something fierce.

Well the last time the World Snooker Title was brought home to Dublin - Kerry won the All-Ireland.

So maybe we should be thankful Selby won!

dobman88

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Enjoyed that match thoroughly. The best man won, but Murph certainly did give it his all.

Fantastic tournament overall.

The withdrawals tomorrow will be something fierce.

If ever I wished the pubs were open. Chatting to a couple of mates there and we watched of the Higgins Trump final in the pub and it was brilliant viewing. Made a few pound on the overs for match centuries too which made it sweeter. Simple things like that yad miss

velo.2010

What exactly is Chris Henry's role with these players. Is it mental, technique or he is just some sort of guru that players want to be associated with?

fran38

Garath Potts gets invited down by Selby for a photo with the trophy.

gormdubhgorm

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

Any chance of Selby going on to become GOAT?

I checked his age he is 37. I figure that means he has about 8 more go's at winning the World Title.

I don't know why Selby disappeared after he won it last.
Selby said it was lack of belief.

Hendry once thought Selby would dominate the game like he himself did. And beat his record.

But the key stat I took from tonight is that Selby has won 9 out of 12 of major ranking finals he has competed in. That is killer instinct real competitiveness when at the business end.

AllForIt

velo.2010 wrote: »

What exactly is Chris Henry's role with these players. Is it mental, technique or he is just some sort of guru that players want to be associated with?

....like both finalists having the same coach - mental.

gormdubhgorm

velo.2010 wrote: »

What exactly is Chris Henry's role with these players. Is it mental, technique or he is just some sort of guru that players want to be associated with?

I think it is more mental at their level.

http://www.chrishenryinternational.com/en/#2

The blurb on Murphy written in 2015 says the following:

"Chris Henry began work with Shaun Murphy in March 2013. Shaun had not won a professional tournament during the previous 3 seasons. Following work to create a more effective technique and to re-program Shaun´s self belief and confidence and to re-calibrate his Psycho Cybernetic Mechanism at the habitual level, Shaun has triumphed in 5 professional tournaments between March 2014 and February 2015 including The Masters and became the first player in history to compile 3 competitive maximum 147 breaks in the same calendar year."

buzzing147

Strumms wrote: »

It was an all or nothing shot, I think if he’s four frames down, maybe , but given he was again in touching distance I was surprised.

He had perfect angle on pink to roll in and leave that final red straight, roll along cushion then roll black in. Should of played safe instead of handing title away, would of won if won that frame

Say Your Number

Pity Eurosport didn't have Ronnie in studio for the Selby interview.

Addle

Say Your Number wrote: »

Pity Eurosport didn't have Ronnie in studio for the Selby interview.

Strange interview. Was he even congratulated?!

The Golden Miller

Have to admire what Selby does, on song few players who could ever live with him. He has 4 world titles now, but it further raises a few questions I've noticed lately over several sports. Would I be wrong in saying Selby won his first world by an age older than Hendry won his last? What's happening accross several sports right now is the problem we've always faced in judging era's.

For example, we see alot of players winning world titles, far beyond the age Hendry won his last. But Hendry's prime was the standard of the lifespan of any snooker player who came before. Similar in tennis, playing near 10 years longer than what Sampras did, adding far more slams due to this. Similar, football players often seemingly still in their prime in mid 30's.

There must be some common factor like science of the sports, professionalism, diets, conditioning that keeps the human body in prime shape for longer. If Hendry was born 8 years later, would he be still young enough to extend his prime with current coaching standards that clearly work for Williams and Bingham etc?

Like Higgins, O'Sullivan and Selby have won many titles outside the prime age of what a snooker player once was. Do we compare what they achieved by the same age bracket of what came before, or do we tally what was won and compare it to a previous era that had 10 years less to achieve the same? Same with tennis, 3 players with circa 20 slams, many won outside the prime years of say Sampras, who never really benefited from today's strength and conditioning, to continue longer at a high level?

You can really only judge by the standards of the day, but that's not tangible, and the context gets lost over the years. Alex Higgins has less than 100 official centuries. Half his career was in dingy clubs, hardly calculating the mans stats properly. Nor the context of how the game was played

BQQ

Top quality final and tournament as a whole.
Some great snooker played - makes up for the woeful standard last year

Strumms

A combination of sports science and psychology.

Healthy body and healthy mind.

We always knew he was superbly talented..

Rothko

Well done to Selby. A deserved champion and the best player over the course of the tournament. Not the biggest fan of Murphy but he should be very happy with how he performed during this championship. I'm sure he himself was even surprised at how well he did.

Hopefully, the break won't go on too long and at least we have the Seniors on later in the week.

Joe_ Public

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Have to admire what Selby does, on song few players who could ever live with him. He has 4 world titles now, but it further raises a few questions I've noticed lately over several sports. Would I be wrong in saying Selby won his first world by an age older than Hendry won his last? What's happening accross several sports right now is the problem we've always faced in judging era's.

For example, we see alot of players winning world titles, far beyond the age Hendry won his last. But Hendry's prime was the standard of the lifespan of any snooker player who came before. Similar in tennis, playing near 10 years longer than what Sampras did, adding far more slams due to this. Similar, football players often seemingly still in their prime in mid 30's.

There must be some common factor like science of the sports, professionalism, diets, conditioning that keeps the human body in prime shape for longer. If Hendry was born 8 years later, would he be still young enough to extend his prime with current coaching standards that clearly work for Williams and Bingham etc?

Like Higgins, O'Sullivan and Selby have won many titles outside the prime age of what a snooker player once was. Do we compare what they achieved by the same age bracket of what came before, or do we tally what was won and compare it to a previous era that had 10 years less to achieve the same? Same with tennis, 3 players with circa 20 slams, many won outside the prime years of say Sampras, who never really benefited from today's strength and conditioning, to continue longer at a high level?

You can really only judge by the standards of the day, but that's not tangible, and the context gets lost over the years. Alex Higgins has less than 100 official centuries. Half his career was in dingy clubs, hardly calculating the mans stats properly. Nor the context of how the game was played

There may be varying reasons, but one obvious factor in snooker is that hendry, by the time he reached his early to mid 30s, was having to contend with an influx of younger talent that was hungry to take his place. The older players now face less of a challenge because there are not many talented young players filtering through which is a direct consequence of the sharp drop in playing numbers over the past two decades. I dont know about other sports, but that is a big factor in snooker anyway.

BQQ

BQQ wrote: »

Vicky still looks great after all these years

Jaysis. She's not exactly 92!

My wife is a decade older and looks better than when we first met 35 years ago...then again she had that 80s hair thing back then.

Women don't fall apart after 19...

Arthur Daley

Selby reckoning in the Eurosport interview that he'd have gone for the red down the cushion. I'd doubt that he would if he was actually faced with it and it's lights out when you miss it.

Never fancied the look of it. Could have been justified running off into safety there. Under the circumstances

Sounds like even Hendry didn't like the look of it too much once he saw it was a thou off the cushion.

BorneTobyWilde

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysis. She's not exactly 92!

My wife is a decade older and looks better than when we first met 35 years ago...then again she had that 80s hair thing back then.

Women don't fall apart after 19...

Your wife is 102, dam.

Arthur Daley

Skid X wrote: »

They should play the proper music in full for old times sake

Yeah don't know what that muck was they played at the end.

They didn't start with Drag racer tonight either. Is nothing bloomin' sacred these days:(

Asdfgh2020

Could it be argued that snooker is in terminal decline......in the last ten years what has been the average age of the world champion versus the previous ten years..., when was the last ‘new winner’ and what was his age...?

Also Hendry making a come back.....Doherty and a few other such as Jimmy white being given ‘wild card’ entries.....to major tournaments.....why is the sport (Barry Hearne) doing this.....? Desperate to keep viewing figures up....?

Joe_ Public

Murphy was always going for that red, never any question about it. If he'd a caddy to talk him out of it, like van de velde in the burn at carnoustie...but this is snooker, not golf. I thought he'd pot it tbh, get those down anywhere near the pocket and they usually drop, but he bumped that off the cushion almost as soon as he hit it so no chance. Selby would definitely have played safe in that situation, have little doubt about that.

Arthur Daley

Never been in better health, or more enjoyable in my view. Absolutely loved the snooker this past 10 months

Hendry and White are miles off reaching the Crucible.

Asdfgh2020

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

Could it be argued that snooker is in terminal decline...

Surely the opposite.

I'm old enough to remember the 80s when the only winner was Davis, and then the 90s when the only winner was Hendry. It seems to me that the sport is very healthy now, when any one of 7 or 8 players could win, many of them playing better than Davis or Hendry...

Asdfgh2020

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Surely the opposite.

I'm old enough to remember the 80s when the only winner was Davis, and then the 90s when the only winner was Hendry. It seems to me that the sport is very healthy now, when any one of 7 or 8 players could win, many of them playing better than Davis or Hendry...

No new young names coming through....Ronnie o Sullivan still winning titles and John ‘effin’ Higgins (who should have served a lengthy ban) still challenging for major titles....wtf...? I too recall the 80’s and 90’s.......mr maximum (Willy Thorne), the grinder ) thorbourn.....steady Eddie, bill werbinick, Kirk Stephens etc etc etc...!

Infernal Racket

I'd love to see Hendry getting back to a bit of form. He'll fly up the ranks

Joe_ Public

There are two issues here i think. Globally, snooker may be doing fine with plenty more room for expansion but the picture in its traditional heartland is not a very inspiring one. The most recent figures i saw for snooker participation in England was less than 15,000 which is a massive decline from what it was even 10 years ago, never mind the halcyon days of the 80s. It's possibly even worse over here so i think there's a lot has to be done to try and change that.

gormdubhgorm

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

No new young names coming through....Ronnie o Sullivan still winning titles and John ‘effin’ Higgins (who should have served a lengthy ban) still challenging for major titles....wtf...? I too recall the 80’s and 90’s.......mr maximum (Willy Thorne), the grinder ) thorbourn.....steady Eddie, bill werbinick, Kirk Stephens etc etc etc...!

Look at the quality of play not the ages of players. Record crucible centuries this year, Higgins record number of centuries in a match in a tournament recently. Age is not the alarm bell for me, a lack of quality would be. The quality has never been better. Steve Davis himself said the best players of all time are this current era quality wise.

gormdubhgorm

Infernal Racket wrote: »

I'd love to see Hendry getting back to a bit of form. He'll fly up the ranks

No notion of that happening not 20% of the player he was.

Asdfgh2020

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

No new young names coming through....Ronnie o Sullivan still winning titles and John ‘effin’ Higgins (who should have served a lengthy ban) still challenging for major titles....wtf...? I too recall the 80’s and 90’s.......mr maximum (Willy Thorne), the grinder ) thorbourn.....steady Eddie, bill werbinick, Kirk Stephens etc etc etc...!

I'd say if anything Kirk Stephens shows how much the game has moved on. He was young and talented, he had a mullet and a coke habit, so that made him interesting. But it's not like he really enthralled us all at the table for years. The only thing I really remember about Bill Weberniuk was his weight and his drinking...

Joe_ Public

Talking about competitive eras, the last 10 world championships have produced 5 distinct winners. Not bad but the decade from Kens victory in 1997 to Dott winning in 2006 produced 8. Now, there was a competitive era!

Loafing Oaf

For me it's back to not paying a blind bit of attention to snooker for another 50 weeks:p

Arthur Daley

There are some good, regular big pots in the game now too. Win the UK and you get what Shaun took home tonight. 200 grand.

Even win the Champion of Champions and you get 150 grand. That'll inspire the young uns also.


A few young players will come through and join Bing Tao. Look how long and hard it took Selby and Robertson to graft their way up.

People also forget these were the ages of the Class of 92 (three of the top 5 players of all time) when they won their second World Title:

O'Sullivan 28
Higgins 31
Williams 28

Hendry had 7 at the age of 30.
Davis had 6 at the age of 31
But they were outliers really

Ray Reardon didn't win a world title until he was 37

Girly Gal

After every world championship it's nearly always hard to see how the winner will be beaten next year, but, it's not often retained. When Trump won in 2019, it looked like he was set to dominate, after last year a lot felt O'Sullivan would go on and retain title this year to draw level with Hendry, yet neither were able to retain it. It's the same with Selby this year, hard to see who'll beat him next year, but, it's probably more likely than not that he won't retain the title. While he's game is near perfect for the crucible, he only needs to drop a little bit for it not to work. His greatest asset is his temperament, it's unrivalled in the current game, probably only Davis, Hendry and Higgins in their prime had a comparable temperament.

Probably the most disappointing player this year was Robertson, he's touted most years, yet rarely gets past the quarter finals. He doesn't seem to have the stamina or mentality for the longer form matches.

mdwexford

Selby won this tournament without his A game which is ominous for the other players. His break building was nowhere near what it can be. A lot of time breaking into the pack on 40-50 he was playing it badly and sticking on a red. Not too many one visit kills. His safety was great at times but plenty of loose ones also.

This should give him so much confidence and he could possibly dominate as world number 1 and rack up world titles like he did from 2014-2019. His temperament, shot selection and will to win is phenomenal. He’s top 5 all time now in my view with Hendry, Ronnie, Davis and Higgins.

Think he has more world titles in him for certain.

Arthur Daley

What seemed to kill Selby in late 2017 onwards was the tiredness of the trips to China and back to the UK. Especially as World Champion two years running at that time and the demands on your time that also brings. He's probably benefitted from the lack of China trips this year, and finished the season strong. As did John Higgins I think although he left his form at home when it came to Sheffield this year.

B2021M

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Never been in better health, or more enjoyable in my view. Absolutely loved the snooker this past 10 months

Hendry and White are miles off reaching the Crucible.

Really enjoyed this season. Used to follow the game so closely years ago and then hadnt as much time to watch from around 2006 to 2016.

At first i wasnt sure what to make of the best of 7 matches in the home nations etc but i like how they work....snooker all day and lots of players to check out.

Prob better on a separate thread but i like the mix of tournaments now with varying lengths of matches etc. What do people think? Has a good balance been found? (apart from maybe the shorter UK matches...maybe that shouldnt have been changed)...

volono

They desperately need new blood to come thru and make their mark in the game imo. At this rate Ronnie , Higgins, Williams will be still there playing at 60.
They call Wilson and Lisowski young.....they're near 30 years old, Hendry had near all his winning done by that age. Forget Ireland and the U.K., be a miracle imo if there's even a couple of 15 year olds good enough to come through and make it at the minute.
Looking at the age profile of the players, in a decade all the established names will be in the 45-55 age bracket or older, if they're even still playing!!
Half the tour will be made up of Asian players imo.
If a total phenom appears and the sheer numbers playing over there certainly makes that a decent likelihood, it will be from there.

Pogue eile

volono wrote: »

They desperately need new blood to come thru and make their mark in the game imo. At this rate Ronnie , Higgins, Williams will be still there playing at 60.
They call Wilson and Lisowski young.....they're near 30 years old, Hendry had near all his winning done by that age. Forget Ireland and the U.K., be a miracle imo if there's even a couple of 15 year olds good enough to come through and make it at the minute.
Looking at the age profile of the players, in a decade all the established names will be in the 45-55 age bracket or older, if they're even still playing!!
Half the tour will be made up of Asian players imo.
If a total phenom appears and the sheer numbers playing over there certainly makes that a decent likelihood, it will be from there.

And that is why he was finished in his mid thirties, Hendry burned very bright for a shorter period and from a younger age, his age combined with the intensity and machine like ruthlessness was never going to be sustainable over a long period. Once he lost his edge and hunger it was a quick descent.

Hendry is very much an exception and I dont think can be used as a barrometer. There is absolutely no reason why a player shouldnt be as good at 40 as they were at 25. In fact for someone like Selby being able to draw on experience is probably a plus.

ultrapercy

I bet 20 euros at 10-1 for Selby to win 18-15. I cashed out for 153 at 17-15. I never cash out, never. Im up 133 euros but I feel Selbyed. I won but feel like I lost, tight to the balk cusion behind the green ball with 2 of the remaining 3 reds tight to either side cusion and needing maximum points for a respotted black. I hate Selby. I love Selby.

Joe_ Public

Hendry says he got the yips around the turn of the millennium and i have to be honest, if i'd seen the likes of higgins, williams, osullivan, hunter, ebdon et al coming in my slipstream, I'd probably have got the yips too. The lads now see Jack Lisowski and Luca Brecel and think, what reason i couldn't go another 5-10 years here? I dunno do even the likes of kyren wilson, decent player though he is, inspire real fear. Maybe Yan Bingtao will be the one, but looks quite raw still. Each year the chinese are increasing their number on tour by one or two and eventually that quantity is going to start telling.

Joe_ Public

Arthur Daley wrote: »

What seemed to kill Selby in late 2017 onwards was the tiredness of the trips to China and back to the UK. Especially as World Champion two years running at that time and the demands on your time that also brings. He's probably benefitted from the lack of China trips this year, and finished the season strong. As did John Higgins I think although he left his form at home when it came to Sheffield this year.

Selby mentioned something about personal problems in his post match interview. I've heard reference to this before but never any specifics and think it concerns the time around the 2018 world championships. Remember when he withdrew from events in 2016 before he won the world title but again the specific reason was never outlined iirc. Just thought it was interesting he raised it himself tonight unprompted.

ultrapercy

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Hendry says he got the yips around the turn of the millennium and i have to be honest, if i'd seen the likes of higgins, williams, osullivan, hunter, ebdon et al coming in my slipstream, I'd probably have got the yips too. The lads now see Jack Lisowski and Luca Brecel and think, what reason i couldn't go another 5-10 years here? I dunno do even the likes of kyren wilson, decent player though he is, inspire real fear. Maybe Yan Bingtao will be the one, but looks quite raw still. Each year the chinese are increasing their number on tour by one or two and eventually that quantity is going to start telling.

We've been hearing about china dominance for a long time. Mark Williams won a world title 2 years ago as a part time player at 43 years of age. We hear a lot of talk about toughness in sport. Rugby and GAA especially like to play the toughnes card. For me the battle for the toughest sport boils down to 2, boxing and snooker and snooker wins. At least in boxing if you're getting hammered you get to hit back. I hate watching Selby play but I really admire him, he's a teak tough compeditor who can front run and catch up. He showed emotion tonight so he's no robot. He is in fact a class act.

The Golden Miller

ultrapercy wrote: »

We've been hearing about china dominance for a long time. Mark Williams won a world title 2 years ago as a part time player at 43 years of age. We hear a lot of talk about toughness in sport. Rugby and GAA especially like to play the toughnes card. For me the battle for the toughest sport boils down to 2, boxing and snooker and snooker wins. At least in boxing if you're getting hammered you get to hit back. I hate watching Selby play but I really admire him, he's a teak tough compeditor who can front run and catch up. He showed emotion tonight so he's no robot. He is in fact a class act.

I still don't know how Williams won that title. Broke down around the 70 mark all tournament, and doesn't have a great temperament for long games. He could wing it on his shot making, often getting in first, and just about doing enough.

Alex Higgins another. Only he had such an eye for an impossible shot, would be subpar. Winged it on his single ball potting, which requires no practice, raw natural instincts. The guy had no control with a cue ball, had to pull off at least 3 impossible shots a frame to keep his break going. Amazing to watch, people forget how good he was, Hendry said the same at his funeral. At potting that is, not his overall game. Best potter I've ever seen

Joe_ Public

ultrapercy wrote: »

We've been hearing about china dominance for a long time. Mark Williams won a world title 2 years ago as a part time player at 43 years of age. We hear a lot of talk about toughness in sport. Rugby and GAA especially like to play the toughnes card. For me the battle for the toughest sport boils down to 2, boxing and snooker and snooker wins. At least in boxing if you're getting hammered you get to hit back. I hate watching Selby play but I really admire him, he's a teak tough compeditor who can front run and catch up. He showed emotion tonight so he's no robot. He is in fact a class act.

Mark Williams played 21 tournaments the season he won his world title and won 4 of them so i wouldn't be overegging the part time line there. And i dont think anybody says china is definitely going to dominate, it's just a very gradual shift that has been ongoing for a number of years, no one has to put a time limit on it.

ultrapercy

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Mark Williams played 21 tournaments the season he won his world title and won 4 of them so i wouldn't be overegging the part time line there. And i dont think anybody says china is definitely going to dominate, it's just a very gradual shift that has been ongoing for a number of years, no one has to put a time limit on it.

No but one runners up spot doesn't justify the hype.Chineese dominance is a danger to all sport by weight of numbers but it"s the monster under the bed it only exists in the imagination.