FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913718#Comment_118913718

First they came for the turf-cutters and we said nothing. Another really funny post

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914189#Comment_118914189

Enough is enough. My fuel up €6 a bag in the last few weeks and my oil price doubled .

I will be cutting or buying double amounts of turf this year. I'm part of the working poor who don't qualify for fuel allowances or has a massive salary and pension like the out of touch ministers making these decisions.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914273#Comment_118914273

I hear you and some are just not getting the fact fuel prices have already risen substantially. Some would also have us believe everyone entitled to Fuel allowance and they are absolutely not. The new and immediate fear for me is that turf prices will now go through the roof this season and there is no coincidence in the timing of Eamonn Ryan's announcement, whilst he knows nothing about rural life it doesn't take a genius to know, cutting starts in the next few weeks.

Dempo1

So Tony as predicted Blaming lack of Support from Taoiseach for his reason not to take up his own makey uppy position, The Taoiseachs , "Correct Decision" to pause this nonsense was almost immediately supported by Leo Varadkar and oddly that seems to have escaped Tony, come Saturday morning pretty much everyone in FFG and opposition were in agreement on the need to pause and Then by Saturday afternoon, Tony announces his Retirement"

Unamed sources within health system claimed he was humiliated 🤔, I presume they are DOH employees and not getting the embarrassment is actually the Stunt that was proposed

Tony throwing his toys out of the pram and blaming lack of support from Taoiseach is simply pathetic, Both he and Watt were caught out, I suspect his petulance is perhaps more about preparing his Memoirs.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tony-holohan-decided-not-to-take-tcd-job-due-to-lack-of-support-from-taoiseach-41543898.html

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914293#Comment_118914293

Definitely well timed. I'm lucky enough as we have a family plot where we all cut. It's just hard to get the time with work. It's unbelievable how far out of touch these ministers are with ordinary working people.

People around me were steadily moving over to smokeless fuel but since the fuel hikes there has been a strong rush for stocking up on the cheap smokey coal. People are just not going to afford to comply with these stupid regulations made up by clueless ministers.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914309#Comment_118914309

Delighted your family have the plot so you should be OK re contining drawing Turf, I'm not so lucky have to purchase my turf, pay for footing etc, so I'm expecting serious price increase now, prices had risen already. I agree completely with your sentiments 👍😉

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914309#Comment_118914309

They are not stupid regulations made up by clueless Ministers.

It has been clear for at least the last decade that measures like these were in the pipeline. There is a climate crisis in case you noticed and everyone who thought for at least a minute about it would realise that fossil fuel prices were only going to go up and up. Only the timing of those increases was in doubt.

Pussyhands

Great that FFG have found the money tree they said didn't exist.

Billions plucked out of nowhere.

I have to laugh at the artists basic income thing. All the lefties are thinking this is some kind of Universal Basic Income trial run. I can assure you it is not. It's just a subsidy for artists to allow them to waste their time on something that no one is willing to pay money for.

You can't do a UBI trial with just a group of people living amongst people who are not. Of course this "trial" will be good because taxpayers are giving them free money.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914541#Comment_118914541

They are stupid if they arbitrarily remove a citizens ability to heat their home with little or no notice & without thinking is it possible those said citizens don't have access to a secondary heat source, its also utterly stupid if the policy ends up forcing a citizen to move from a solid fuel to Oil consumption and even more stupid at a time, oil prices going through the roof and this aside from the alledged green agenda, this time round, Ryan using the health narrative in a pathetic attempt to justify this nonsense.

Pussyhands

I have said it before but I'll say it again. The Greens are the worst of the lot. We know what FF and FG are like when they have power and what do the Greens do? They bend over to give them all the power. If the Greens didn't go into government then FF and FG wouldn't be in. The Greens are enablers.

3 years can't come quick enough. Who in their right mind would vote for the Greens?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914579#Comment_118914579

Little or no notice?

This has been coming for a decade at least. Anyone who didn't see this coming had their head in the sand.

Anyone who moves from a solid fuel to oil consumption is only delaying the inevitable. I drive a hybrid, have the house insulated, with solar panels, all part of preparation for this day over the last half-decade. I don't claim to be particularly far-sighted so if I could see this coming, anyone could.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914573#Comment_118914573

why are artists wasting their time, and have people stopped paying for their art?

many ubi trials have been conducted around the world, some deemed successful, and others inconclusive, but i think the time has come to implement such policies, but this cannot be solely funded from taxation alone, particularly by increasing taxes on the many, we clearly have to start taxing wealth much more, and we also need to become more reliant on public money supplies

what free money are they getting? the only time money becomes free is when the debts its based on are forgiven or defaulted upon!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914597#Comment_118914597

the greens are my de facto number one, and im sure im not alone

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914597#Comment_118914597

The Greens annoy many people in the electorate because they don't just look at doing what is needed to be re-elected. They look at making changes to make the country better in the longer-term. Banning turf-cutting is just one example of this.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914610#Comment_118914610

LOL, no it wasn't , Commercial Turf harvesting ban was and has happened, this latest nonsense stops ordinary citizens that don't have Tarbary rights (the vast majority in rural Ireland) from purchasing their main source of fuel to heat their homes.

As my primary school teacher used to say

"You must try harder"

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914734#Comment_118914734

That doesn't take away from my point that this was coming.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914741#Comment_118914741

So was the Lord, Blanch 😁

So let's say your correct (and your not) , what exactly has government done to prepare folks for this, barely a month has passed since retro fitting supports announced, as of last week, 2, yes 2 companies fully approved to undertake the work, obviously more to come. The costs involved, the practicalities involved, throw in cost of living crisis, equals a mess in my book 😉

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914668#Comment_118914668

The greens don't annoy me, they amuse and at times irratate me.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914774#Comment_118914774

Government doesn't have to make good on every decision, otherwise change would never come. When income tax was first introduced, they didn't offer an immediate rebate.

However, I am sure that the bleating will lead to an extension of the Turf Cutters Compensation Scheme, as handouts are always desired.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914658#Comment_118914658

many ubi trials have been conducted around the world, some deemed successful,

No they havent - none of those UBI trials are valid because in all of them it was done on a small subset of the population - therefore it wasnt universal basic income, just basic income. UBI doesnt work because its inherently inflationary in nature. A normal basic income might work for some, as its just another form of social welfare with no income limits.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914816#Comment_118914816

A, so government doesn't have to make good on every promise deflection 🤔 and that excuses this nonsense 🤔

I think not 😉

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914828#Comment_118914828

like anything in life, it all depends on the way you see it, yes some deem all ubi trials as a success, and others would deem them a completely failure, it ultimately comes down to what side of the fence you re biased to......

so in your definition, its only universal if all citizens receive it, so how are trials suppose to occur, if we cannot or will not do this?

once again, we have been experiencing little to no inflation globally for decades, while at the same time experiencing the largest growth in the global money supply in human history, now how is that possible?

inflation only turned up when there was significant disruption to global supply chains, including global energy supply chains, so maybe current inflationary pressures are more to do with these complexities, rather than the money supply, maybe?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914902#Comment_118914902

For it to be a universal basic income and to fully determine whether it would work or not, you would have to trial it on an entire population - country, island, region etc in order to determine the economic side effects and whether or not it would simply push up prices, due to extra supply. Not to mention the impact it could have on undesirable jobs that people would rather just not go anymore.

Anyways in relation to current govt, their proposed trial is nowhere close to a UBI. For starters, it doesnt even apply universally to artists - they pick and choose who they deem acceptable for it!

As for the inflation argument, its slightly OT but it is false to say we havent seen inflation until supply chain disruptions. Housing and asset inflation has been occurring for the last 7/8 years at this stage - that was inflation driven by money supply and an inelastic supply of goods (houses/stocks).

The more elastic food supply chains were OK, also peoples consumptions didnt massively increase with money - the food inflation is due to supply side constrictions (droughts, supply chain disruptions, fertiliser prices). More money does lead to inflation, it depends where the money goes (to investors or the public) and what they try and spend it on.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914933#Comment_118914933

i completely agree with you here, lets try this universally then! economic experiments as such are extremely difficult to determine if successful or not, possible outcomes are simply impossible to determine, but targeting such trials make sense, as theres clearly sectors of society that simply have no benefitted from modern economics, many have simply been crushed, but society and the economy still actually require them to be

again, id agree with you, it might be best to trial this with most if not all artists, as most are probably struggling anyway, pup has shown us how successful such polices can be, i.e. by giving sections of society money to spend, this directly benefits these individuals and the economy at large, as this money is spent into the economy, keeping businesses supplied with money(liquidity), and therefore creating jobs etc...

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914902#Comment_118914902

I'm intrigued by this Artists Basic income gaurentee. Neutral in some respects but have to wonder why exactly and does it not raise all sorts of questions as to why someone who's worked for years, paid taxes etc, made redundant and gets €208 pw and a defined period without means test.

Does it also beg the Question on government essentially admitting Jobseekers payments are too low, particularly in the context of the current cost of living crisis.

Is personally welcome a UBI.

What I don't get with this move is were the €325 figure came from, would it not have been more practical to for example permit Artists claim a spefic SW payment equal to that of others and perhaps remove the means test and must be seeking work requirement and also permit some earnings, like was done for self employed who were on PUP.

I'm not critical generally of the move, just curious were they came up with this amount.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914933#Comment_118914933

apologies, just seen your message extension now, yes you are correct, inflation has only truly turned up in asset prices, this was the intent of modern political and economic ideologies and their policies, but this type of inflation is generally not included in debates regarding inflation, we re now experiencing the collapse of these ideologies, and to add insult to injury, now general inflation has also turned up, i.e. we is in trouble!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915007#Comment_118915007

interested to know the answer to some of your questions also, but i suspect some of the figures have indeed come post pup, and yes, i do interpret these figures as an admittance that welfare is currently too low

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914541#Comment_118914541

I stand by my accusation. Listening to rte this morning. 500 refugees expected every week now. Solution is mainly to reinstate and refurbish empty dwellings. Sweet jesus what a joke, do people actually realise how long this is going to take. Totally clueless.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914573#Comment_118914573

FFG have been abusing magical money trees for decades. Hence we have a massive national debt.

€47,000 for every man, woman and child. It is one of the highest in the world on a per capita basis.

It will come back to haunt us.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915253#Comment_118915253

Why wasn't the Minister doing this for the homeless folk in the country, why does it take possible international embarrassment for the Minister to do something?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118912997#Comment_118912997

The timing of the announcement is terrible. I know it's been flagged for many years but why bring it up during a cost of living and energy crisis?

I think Ryan likes to agitate people on purpose.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915253#Comment_118915253

https://streamff.com/v/bca8ef