FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977517#Comment_118977517

Also this is been totally blown out of proportion by a few people. As I posted already, my family, friend and myself all live in countryside and none of us burn turf.

Yes I am aware of cousins on my wife side who burn it but they have their own plot etc and in reality they burn very little.

People are going on as if the whole rural Ireland will freeze to death without turf, load of rubbish.

Number are here: https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/which-county-burns-the-most-turf-for-household-heating/

in 2016 5.2% of the households in Ireland used turf for central heating. I would expect that number has decreased in the 6 years as most people are aware that turf was going to be banned.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977554#Comment_118977554

Don't know but a turf-cutting ban is one of the measures needed immediately, pretty much why I vote for the Greens is that they put these issues of principle ahead of politics. To be fair, FG aren't as bad as the opportunistic populist opposition parties on these issues.

The parties calling for reductions in carbon tax or deferring it are a complete disgrace.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977524#Comment_118977524

To be fair very few do. People here go on like rural Ireland is something from 1960, it's very far from it and in reality rural Ireland was the first to start A2W etc for new builds, long before anyone in a city installed them.

With A2W installed in new houses the majority don't have a fireplace installed because it is just a huge vacuum of warm air out, if they do have a fire it is normally a wood burning stove.

Yes older houses still have fires etc but they also have oil boilers, the percentage of home which are totally dependant on turf is tiny. For the health benefits alone the cost to retrofit those houses would be cheaper than all the issues turf causes to health.

The problem we have here is the turf ban is right but at the wrong time because the war and fuel prices. Delay and then introduce after it, but the government should be clear now, 3 months or whatever after the war is over turf will be banned so don't come crying when it is. Put in place now alternatives if you don't already have, if you have issues then contact SEAI and warmer homes

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977771#Comment_118977771

Oh right...December 2019...

Fianna Fáil would bring in nationwide coal, peat and wood ban through the backdoor – Heydon - Fine Gael

Fianna Fáil are looking to introduce a nationwide ban on smoky coal which would bring in a ban on turf, peat and wood by the back door, a Fine Gael TD has said.

“To proceed with a nationwide smoky coal ban as Fianna Fáil suggest is just reckless and populist. 

Which side of Fine Gael's mouth do you listen to? 🤣

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977832#Comment_118977832

Why not highlight this bit

Seems they want a ban just a gradual one, we are now 3 years after that proposal, plus it is delayed again, seems gradual enough at this stage don't you? also 2109 was the previous government. Hardly relevant

“Environment Minister Richard Bruton has already said we will proceed in a gradual and fair way and extend the smoky coal ban to 13 towns in nine counties, meaning all towns with populations over 10,000 people are now covered. We will also strengthen enforcement of the ban and bring forward a Clean Air Strategy.” Deputy Heydon said

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977832#Comment_118977832

Why do I care about that?

I have told you what I favour. What does me supporting a ban on burning turf have to do with what a FG Senator said in 2019.

The Greens are pushing this Government towards a ban on burning turf, I vote for them, can you show me a party that is more in favour? Is there an opposition party pushing the idea more than the Greens?

I have been absolutely clear on this for a long time. Climate Change is the biggest problem of our times, followed now by Russian aggression. I vote Greens because of this. As far as I can see, all of the opposition parties are weaker on climate change and Russia than the current government parties, so next time out, I will continue my preferences for the government parties.

No whatabout this Senator or that Senator changes the reality that the government parties are far better on these issues than the opposition. Not perfect, but far better.

markodaly

Are we still talking about Turf?

Does anyone really think that in 2022 that its a good thing to dig a fossil fuel out of the ground and burn it for heat? Honestly?

Turf ban should happen 100% bar a few odd exceptions. Its that simple.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978090#Comment_118978090

So do it then. Why are FG blocking it? Populist?

FF and FG have been spouting about this turf ban for 10+ years.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978090#Comment_118978090

It seems that there are quite a few posters on here whose opposition to a ban on turf is such that they must be considered as being close to the position of the climate change deniers.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977517#Comment_118977517

Tell that to the Finns who are back cutting turf for electricity generation or the 5 largest CO2 emitters due to burning coal for the same purpose. China are opening over 40 new coal burning plants, Japan 7 (they also refused to sign COP26) and now even that country held up to us by Irish greens as the example to follow, Germany, are back strip mining coal for the same reason.

Meanwhile we have the Irish green party waffling on about clean air in a country that is one of the worlds to rated countries for clean air as if we were going to save the world on our own.

Do the Irish greens somehow believe we are living in our own little biosphere ?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978248#Comment_118978248

Sorry, but the "Ah sure the Chinese are burning coal, so we can do what we like" malarky is nonsense.

China has re-education camps for its Uyghur population, do you think we should copy them on that as well?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978248#Comment_118978248

Surely that means we should redouble our efforts rather than join them?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978278#Comment_118978278

It is not just the Chinese who are burning coal and opening over 40 new plants to do so. As my post mentioned they are among the top 5 global CO2 emitters.

Russia being another who are so worried they did not even attend COP26. Japan, opening 7 new coal burning plants refused to sign the final agreement saying "they preferred to keep their energy supply sources open", India who would not sign until the line "scale out coal" was changed to "scale down coal". The USA make up the other of those 5 and John Kerry turning up with a big bag of money at COP26 seems to have blinded everyone there to the fact that last year the USA increased its coal production by 18%. Germany, that country we so slavishly followed on all things green are now set to join that group, not just by going back to burning coal, but strip mining to do it. Not to mention they are now going to drill for oil, while our numpties have banned all exploration (other than gold or silver bizarrely) and Ryan is stonewalling on Barryroe while attempting to ban LNG.

If you wish to talk about China and slave labour. China are the worlds largest producers of solar panels, and are tipped to become the worlds top producers of EVs. Solar panels are now the big promo by the Irish greens, so should we be buying solar panels, or anything related to green energy from a country that is using slave labour and coal as cheap sources of production ?

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978349#Comment_118978349

Ban burning oil and gas too?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978349#Comment_118978349

Why redouble ?

We have a population of 5 million. If we increased or efforts by 10 fold we would still not be living in our own biosphere and it would make damn all difference globally when the big boys and girls have clearly shown that when it comes to energy supply they will go for what is cheapest and best for them economically.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978397#Comment_118978397

We need to start planning for that.

We have already banned certain coal products and closed Moneypoint, so a good start has been made. Turf is the most polluting one.

Gas is the better of the fossil fuels, or rather least worst, so that should be last to go.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978403#Comment_118978403

A start has to be made somewhere, and we can lead by showing an example.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978411#Comment_118978411

We will need to retrofit every house in the country for gas heating then. And then re-retrofit when gas gets the chop for something else.

Fandymo

How anyone can still support FFG/Greens nowadays is mind boggling. It's like some form of Stockholm Syndrome. Or folly a deux for the populace.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977870#Comment_118977870

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978083#Comment_118978083

By complete chance I found an article on Fine Gael's website, when FG were in government, warning people not to vote for Fianna Fail because they were going to bring in a ban on turf "through the backdoor". Priceless.

I contend that FG are only paying lip service to climate change and have no interest in banning commercial turf sales. They are much too populist for all that.

And by the way, Martin Heyden was a FG TD in 2019.

"To proceed with a nationwide smoky coal ban as Fianna Fáil suggest is just reckless and populist. It would immediately expose people in rural areas across the country, who for generations, have traditional sources of logs and turf which they rely upon, to the risk of a sudden ban."

....

Fine Gael did all this drama in 2011 with Frank Feighan (FG) and Crony Coveney (FG) leading the charge.

Flanagan walks out after turf-cutting exchanges (irishtimes.com)

Mr Flanagan said his Fine Gael constituency colleague Frank Feighan had said before the election he would “sign his name in blood” to oppose turf-cutting bans.

Mr Coveney remarked that populism could be a dangerous thing.

“Populism and bondholders,” said Mr Flanagan. “I am leaving the chamber.” Mr Coveney said Mr Flanagan should “go on and walk out in protest”. Mr Flanagan replied: “My daddy did not give me a seat.”

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978415#Comment_118978415

That reminds me of the Babs Keating comment that a pat in the back is only ever a couple of inches away from a kick in the arse.

The big polluters out there, the vast majority of them much wealthier than we are could not give a flying fcuk what we do. They will continue doing what they see best for them and their economies. Best we will achieve doing what we are doing is either a pat on the back from Eamon or a major kick in the arse for ours.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978537#Comment_118978537

Did I not highlight teh section in the article you linked with FG saying they would introduce but slowly?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978411#Comment_118978411

Wrong. Moneypoint is not closed and will burn coal until 2025.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978380#Comment_118978380

That's lovely but the era of coal is coming to an end. It's not happening tomorrow but give it a decade or two, meanwhile, we have to get our own house in order.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978556#Comment_118978556

No. That was smoky coal. No mention of turf. Good article though eh 😉

Fine Gael have some great content. New Politics was another one...

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978424#Comment_118978424

Seeing as our own energy regulator does not view our gas supply as secure as well as it not being in E.U. compliance, the expense of retrofitting for gas looks a dodgy investment.

Especially with Ryan hand-sitting on Barryroe and attempting to ban LNG, the only other transitional energy source recognised by the E.U. other than nuclear.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978586#Comment_118978586

im sure they do, are you saying they should go around deleting pages off website?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978624#Comment_118978624

More pathetic deflection...'look over there!'

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978624#Comment_118978624

They deleted the New Politics document !!

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978582#Comment_118978582

It`s not going to happen in a decade or two for coal. If you do not believe me then then check out just the known coal reserves for the two largest economies in the world China and the USA. You can throw in another of that big 5, India, if you like.

Getting your house in order sounds great if you are living in a biosphere. Otherwise you are just pissing into the wind and are going to suffer blow-back.