FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119025467#Comment_119025467

Income taxation on average earners is among the lowest in the EU.

Yes, the income tax burden on higher earners is way too much, but property, VAT and many other taxes are lower than the rest of the EU or OECD.

Where we are above average is the take from multinationals and from higher earners.

FrancieBrady

And the claim is FG and FF haven't tacitly merged into one to keep the Shinners out. Here is a FG TD canvassing for FF's 'partner's in the north. Bizarre!

https://twitter.com/MacgMairtin/status/1523408399362191361

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036652#Comment_119036652

The longer they concentrate on shinners while ignoring issues the public care about, the quicker they'll become irrelevant.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037636#Comment_119037636

ah tis too late, they and their ideologies are dying a death, and thank god for that

blanch152

It is amazing the amount of time some posters spend talking about the North in this thread.

Getting back on topic, I see government is doing more to help business again.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/0510/1297072-politics-cabinet/

"The Government has extended the lower VAT rate for the hospitality sector.

The 9% lower VAT rate, which was due to expire at the end of August, will now run until 28 February 2023"

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040441#Comment_119040441

Sounds great as long as its just for public projects.

Brucie Bonus

Nice to see the government give a menial apology in the Seanad for their part in allowing the forging of birth certs by their partners in the religious orders.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042581#Comment_119042581

Absolutely disgraceful, they didn't even bother their arses notifying all those affected and even those who were, informed by an email only yesterday.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042601#Comment_119042601

I heard that. Shameless. We need an international court to investigate FF/FG/Religious orders for their parts in the selling and mass burial of babies. It's not right that they get to give a mealy mouthed apology and act like they weren't complicit.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043495#Comment_119043495

Can you explain to me which particular politicians in the Dail today were complicit in the selling and mass burial of babies?

There is detatched from reality and there is completely lost in outer space, your post is heading for the latter.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043773#Comment_119043773

None that we know of. You do know FF/FG are parties/institutions not people. Do you think we should give the church a pass if all the mass grave dead baby folk are dead?

Why did O'Gorman and Martin before him apologise? The Greens are involved in the whitewash. Anything for a pension.

There's dismissing for your team and a shameless lack of decency, for your team.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043932#Comment_119043932

Not at all, I asked a question, you have answered it.

"None that we know of" is a mealy-mouthed response, lacking in decency, and leaving an implication hanging over those politicians. A disgusting debating tactic.

I never said anything about giving the church a pass, or about the State getting a pass. Your ire was directed at people who had nothing to do with it. None of the politicians in FF or FG today ever killed a baby, or made bombs. Neither did any of them falsify adoption papers or engage in gun-running.

We should hold politicians accountable for what they did, and what they knew at the time it happened about what was being done, what wrongdoing they supported and continue to defend, and what they have done to rectify past mistakes. The apology was made today, late but still welcome as an apology. Not every victim on this island has got the apology they deserve.

O'Gorman has been a Minister for nearly two years now, and has made more progress on these issues than any politician ever has. If you weren't just always playing for your team, you would give him credit for that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042581#Comment_119042581

In fairness, the current Dail have no way of knowing who were or weren’t issued with false birth certs. They apologised for historical wrongdoings. Numerous children have been reared by grandparents, believing them to be their parents. Who was at fault there? Thankfully the grandparents stepped up and kept their daughters from a home.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044149#Comment_119044149

You are refuting a claim i never made, hilarious. And I say 'that we know of' because its FF/FG after all. Their institutions are mired in selling babies and at least one mass baby grave.

O'Gorman who assisted in the government whitewash who organised the victims getting an email apology for their forged birth certificates? I'm aware of his department's work. Let's not make it about one man.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044239#Comment_119044239

Good aul maryanne in with the deflect, blame the families. The families didn't oversee or allow the system that sold babies and imprisoned women. This is regarding forged birth certs and the people who contacted the government over this know who they are. They are the ones critical of government. They are the ones called the apology on behalf of government mealy-mouthed.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044356#Comment_119044356

"Their institutions"????? What sort of a mad world do you live in??? Political parties didn't own those homes, that is just silliness and trivialising of the suffering of those affected.

The State, that means you, that means me, that means mostly our ancestors, are to blame. Using the victims of those homes for political purposes in the way that you are doing is completely disgusting.

As for having a go at O'Gorman and the Greens, when they are the ones who have stepped up to the plate and dealt with this legacy issues, that is just beyond despicable.

This is not the first time that you have used the suffering of victims to make a completely inconsequential political point. Not a single politician currently in the Dail was involved in any of this as you have admitted, yet you keep trying to pin blame on those politicians. It is the worst example of using victims for political purposes that I have seen on these boards.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045921#Comment_119045921

We've had a power swap since the foundation of the state, for generations, decades, we've had a FF/FG state allow the behaviour of the religious orders, aided by the state in some instances, for generations. Then in recent years FF/FG power swap governments block, ignore and hand wave away victims, then whitewash reports and ignore victims once again

So yes the state, set up and ran by FF/FG for generations, aided and abetted the monstrous criminality of the religious orders.

If we can hold them to account and we should, we can hold FF/FG to account, and we should.

An email apology isn't a decent response. Signing off on a whitewash report is stepping up to the plate for FF/FG not the victims.

I think you constantly naming alledged victims to further your much laboured false claims is the only example we need.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042601#Comment_119042601

This is typical of FFG. They treated the survivors very badly wrt to the Mother and Baby report. The whitewashed one. Did we ever find the carefully constructed leak? Of course not...

They will do anything to protect their sordid legacy - hence they told the Green minister to do a quick apology in the 'reformed' Seanad. O'Gorman is doing his best but it's obvious that he is hamstrung by the FFG leaders. Zappone was kicking the mass graves can down the road under orders too and nearly got her reward.

Disgusting politics from dying parties who only care about themselves. Did anyone mention De Valera's son who facilitated many illegal adoptions?

Éamon de Valera’s son facilitated illegal adoptions in 1960s (irishtimes.com)

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046850#Comment_119046850

Indeed the Good Doctor De Valera, a name certain people would rather not mention.

I'm actually intrigued how those who know they were illegally adopted are going to actually get information. I was brought up in state care for 16 years, started a search for records a year ago, order of nuns furnished limited info but enough to confirm I was under their care, my file given to old health board in 1990 and despite ongoing efforts by Tusla, the file can't be located. I actually have a ligitmate birth cert, a letter from one brother, so had something to work from. Most galling , despite mention of the home I was in (Murphy report) Tusla had no idea initially the home existed, I reckon there must be 1000's in my situation. There's constant mention of Mother & Baby homes, County homes and silence when it comes to many state/religious order ran children's homes and orphanages.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046295#Comment_119046295

Firstly, are you setting out the principle that current political party leaders are responsible for the actions or inactions of their predecessors? It certainly doesn't appear so from your contributions to other threads.

Secondly, are you saying that the State is the same as the political party in charge? Because that is nonsense.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047309#Comment_119047309

No. You keep trying to make it so. FF and FG played a major role in aiding and abetting the crimes of the religious orders. They are as responsible as the religious orders/church.

You are quick to assign the history you like to those parties. As you are the history you don't like to others.

The religious orders didn't operate in a vacuum. How many votes did FF/FG secure by turning a blind eye and backing the church over the generations?

Cluedo Monopoly

They continue to do wrong in order to rewrite the history books.

O'Gorman to seek investigation into leaking of Mother and Baby Home report (thejournal.ie)

MINISTER RODERIC O’GORMAN has written to survivors’ groups to say that he is “deeply angered” that details of the Mother and Baby Home Commission report were leaked to the media before they were shared with survivors and families.

On Twitter, O’Gorman said that he would seek an investigation into how the details became public.

“I’m seeking an investigation of how these sensitive details came into the public domain and will be raising it with Government colleagues,” O’Gorman said. 

Survivors said that they were hurt and angry, but “not surprised” by leak to the media; and that it was causing great distress to survivors.

...

Catherine Connolly TD has hit out at the government in the Dáil for their handling of the Mother and Baby Homes report – and criticised the conclusions of the report itself.

She slated the ‘three unwise men’ – the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Minister for Children – for not ensuring survivors of Mother and Baby Homes were given copies of the Report before it was published to the general public on Tuesday.

Speaking about the report, the Independent Galway West TD said that she struggles for words, and accused the government of placing ‘abuse on abuse’, referring to the manner in which the subject is being dealt with.

...

How is the 16 month investigation going into the leak? More lies...Disgusting selfish politics. Zero empathy.

Integritate

I wrote a treatise on another thread about this current coalition government, which consists of a social housing party (Fianna Fail), a legal profession/property development party (Fine Gael), and a party that 96% of the population do not support but who are beholden to (Green Party). What did we do to deserve this? My yet unpublished treatise:

These FFG shysters know that they have the country locked into a quagmire of repressive measures for at least another 3 years, while in the meantime guaranteeing themselves a lifetime pension. I would cry into my spilt beer over all of this, except that the same cretins, under the guise of a public health initiative, brought MUP into law to the delight of the vintners) so there is no way I can afford to spill any of the beer that I can infrequently now buy. But let’s not forget that we are on a trajectory of living in the most expensive country on the planet by the year 2026, a mere 4 years away, and what this glorious government gives us in return is 50 available affordable properties that first time buyers in Ireland each year can buy for the foreseeable future.

So this country of ours will only be affordable in the very near future to two very select groups. One is the elite (legal professionals, politicians, corrupt business people, NGO executives and management) who are suckling on the toll of the tax payer, and the other group being social welfare recipients/asylum seekers who will be guaranteed state-of-the-art environmentally built homes once again on the backs of working people.

I have a cunning plan though. I intend to sell up my house to the council who will pay top dollar for it in order to house a family from a country with diametrically opposing values to our simple lives. But I shall return as an asylum seeker seeking refuge from those who repress freckled red-haired fair skinned people of the world. And I will get my new home within 4 months. Guaranteed.

Welcome to the Irish Twilight Zone.

Brucie Bonus

The judge skipping around the 'sweet deal'.

Mr Justice Brian Cregan circulated a confidential draft final report to witnesses on Thursday after seven years of investigation, in which he criticised a process “below the surface” where certain events occurred during the sale without the bank’s knowledge.

He is heavily critical of the terms on which Siteserv was sold and finds the transaction was “not concluded in a manner that was reasonable from the perspective of the bank”, then known as Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IBRC).

The judge also criticised large bonus payments to Siteserv directors on the eve of the sale, saying they received more than corporate finance advisers KPMG and Davy. He also says a €5 million payment to Siteserv shareholders as part of the deal “was too high”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-based-on-misleading-information-judge-says-1.4877046

I hope Noonan has his suit pressed.

It would be awkward for this to conclude with Varadkar still under criminal investigation.

Dempo1

David Cullinan just put that odious Sarah Carey back in her clueless box on RTE radio one. She's utterly clueless about the North even Pompous Boucher Hayes had to correct her about a few historical facts. I see Leo resorted to his attack SF mode yesterday in the Dail, he's really not getting it at all.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056270#Comment_119056270

You are stretching as always. Can't see any sign of any criticism of Noonan.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056552#Comment_119056552

Stretching what? He was head of the department organised the deal, with the water meter contract ready to go. Are we back to government ministers having no responsibility over their department? Up to his 'inappropriate' neck in it.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056345#Comment_119056345

I wouldn't say Varadkar is not getting, I am sure he is, but the problem they have is they don't do the usual distraction by attacking and blaming SF primarily for all the ills in the country then FFG would have to stand up and defend their decisions and lets face it its easier to attach and blame someone else than to try and defend the indefensible. We even see it on here.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056694#Comment_119056694

We had a number of women leaving FG over bullying within the party. There was zero moral outrage or cries of mysogny from the usual quarter. Wrong party. I think all FG have is deflection and ethics of convenience.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056609#Comment_119056609

Desperate stuff. Are you now saying that Ministers need to be soothsayers, able to detect when someone is not telling them the full story?

As I said, stretching credibility, this time, possibly to breaking point.