FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288647#Comment_119288647

There is no context in the tweet. Just a foolish hand clapping emoji suggesting we have reason to celebrate. Nothing mentioning why the figures are like that. Are many sick/unable to work? Are they in courses? Are they just not on the live register? Are they abroad? Are they being pushed out to work by their parents during summer holidays as they need to get food on the table? The Eurostat pages mention it being cyclical. They also mention that those statistics aren't accurate or up to date for many countries.

As mentioned, the relevant data will be how many of them leave when things get worse. The 'youth employment' percentile change may even be negligible, as it won't show how many thousands will be fleeing.

Here are the figures for Ireland annually since 2011 if that is what you are looking for. I'll wager that this year and next year will be a lot higher.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288772#Comment_119288772

Well, I was very quickly able to establish it came from Eurostat, all those other EU countries was a clue to that. It's another press release from the MoE, good news supposedly but some people disagree on that. Migration is part of our psyche, people do so for any number of reasons, Personally would hand every school leaver a bag and a ticket and send them off for a year. Great for perspective!

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288285#Comment_119288285

So you got the answers for your 'genuine' inquiry that enabled you to post the above. A good mornings work.

The points raised were in regard of the tweet's context. As In what connection does the high employment have to immigration, low pay etc. Hardly a pile on.

People need to realise a dishonest blarney man like Leo will be questioned on the things he says.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288859#Comment_119288859

"all those other EU countries was a clue to that"

It wasn't the Via @Eurostat.eu at the bottom of the tweet? Leo didn't seem to notice it was only EU countries.

The Eurostat pages don't really provide any context either regarding the reasons. As for handing every school leaver a bag and a ticket to go off for a year.. It's not really the same as being forced to head off because they can't afford to live here. Leaving out of desperation cannot and shouldn't be compared to a backpacking holiday for a year. 🙄

It could be that yourself and Leo are celebrating over the youth working so that they can afford to leave for good.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288937#Comment_119288937

On the page I linked to, it provides both context and explanation.

brokenangel

Our unemployment is low yet we have found reason to complain

People complaining because young Irish travel for a few years, have they not lived in ireland before? That has always happened and should be encouraged, it’s great for young people to travel and come home with a different perspective

i bet the same people complaining think a holiday in Spain in some resort which spent millions to look exactly like England/ireland is experiencing a different culture

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288986#Comment_119288986

Who is complaining about young Irish people traveling?

Try harder to handwave away the issues here, it won't work.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288926#Comment_119288926

It was a statistic with a positive result for Ireland (there has been a bunch similar around happiness or economic growth or corruption), there of course can be lots of reasons behind it and lots of other countries could be doing better if it was measured differently or on a wages or PPP basis, but fairly innocuous all the same.

What's interesting is that a positive statistic was used as a means to attack the government based off a few anecdotes or imply there was something nefarious about it which there doesn't seem to have been (hence why I was asking was there more to it). The level of discourse here is at a very low level at the moment if this is generating noise. I would also imagine that any future positive data will have the same reaction as any negative data would and this will be played out for another 3 years till the next election.

And don't get me wrong, there are lots of things the government is doing wrong right now (my main bug bear would be getting large public transport projects off the ground or getting LNG terminals and offshore drilling in place for energy security towards a zero carbon future, it's criminal that moneypoint is still operating), employment levels aren't one of them, we're in a "jobs for all" phase right now.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289165#Comment_119289165

So if we don't take onboard that many have left because there are no prospects, that many in employment are in low wage, no security, no hope of progressing further jobs then we can post on Twitter how great it all is and give ourselves handclaps?

Yeh right! 😁

skimpydoo

There is another elephant about to renter the room, Mica. It has been badly handled by the government and it's looking more likely that any government td's in counties with Mica issues won't be re elected in the next election.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289200#Comment_119289200

OK, to take you seriously, where is there a shortage of jobs at the moment?

Hospitality, construction, tech, manufacturing, farming, retail, health are all crying out for staff, wages in some of those areas have been increasing above inflation (including the latest high inflation) for the past year (tech in particular), our public sector wages are higher than a lot of other European countries (we're not going to compete with teachers and nurses moving to Dubai, but then they have to live in Dubai and it's fundamentalism) and we're low tax for those at the bottom rungs of the salary scale.

What is the attack point here? What should the government do differently for job security? Career progression is there for anyone willing to work and skill up to do their job better as most youth would be doing.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289165#Comment_119289165

No. It was a seemingly positive out of context statistic. People requested context. You are simply dismissing valid query and criticism under a conspiracy theory. Not all questions and criticism comes from the same place.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289318#Comment_119289318

What's the conspiracy? One note posters who post all things positive about the opposition and all things negative about the government isn't a conspiracy, it's everywhere in all walks of life, what's getting weird is the constant effort to spin positive news into negative rather than look at what isn't working well and suggest ways to improve it (which is where the opposition has been sorely lacking thus far, so can understand the need for avoidance).

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289253#Comment_119289253

Currently 2 FG and 1 FF TDs here in Mayo. That would be a bit of a leap...

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289282#Comment_119289282

I suggest you read the comments on the tweet again. Nobody (or very few) bought the handclapping and self congratulations for a variety of verifiable reasons. This government are having to subsidise the working because people cannot make ends meet. This government are presiding over a housing crisis made by them. etc etc I could go on.

That is the same government that happy clappy Leo is co-leader of.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289343#Comment_119289343

You seem to think it was just a 'pile on leo'. That assumes none of the criticism was genuine just people looking to pile on.

Again, questions were asked regarding context. People have concerns and aren't content to take such 'good news' as relevant from a government politician with a reputation for dishonesty.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289361#Comment_119289361

OK, so it's just random other attacks at the government after some positive data about jobs was posted, got it.

Good to see the twitterati are held in such high esteem here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289375#Comment_119289375

For the criticism to be genuine I'd expect to see what the number should be and what changes the government should be making to reach those numbers, as Francie posted above, it was just being heralded as government being attacked for other reasons, which is fine, but then is anyone in the dark about that already? What in the tweet replies could be actively used to form a policy for implementation?

I mean, should unions start to be promoted for job security? (not imo) or stronger employment laws (we already have some of the strongest in place and can go too far as seen in place where very few youth are hired for full time positions), without that detail, the attacks mean nothing other than rabble rousing.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289378#Comment_119289378

He got hammered again and again with ordinary people telling him there was nothing to be that positive about in the figures. That was the point I made.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289348#Comment_119289348

Not really, look at what Michel McNamara did to get re elected.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286943#Comment_119286943

The thing is you are a tiny bit right and a huge amount wrong.

In Ireland, we have been spectacularly good at educating our youth, and providing them with jobs, the figures clearly say this.

However, in other countries which aren't successful like that, they don't have young people looking for houses, because without a job, you can't really aspire to buying a house. You are only confirming that the housing problem in Ireland is a problem of success. Success at educating our young people, success at finding jobs for our young people, success at attracting immigrants to Ireland.

My huge fear is that someone else will get into power and solve the housing problem the wrong way. If you have a failure in educating your young people, a failure in providing them with jobs, and a failure in keeping them from leaving the country, then you won't have a housing problem, as both the population and the number with jobs will be falling.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287239#Comment_119287239

The person I quoted Questioned twitters Relevance. IIRC too "Don't use Twitter myself" Registered users.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287255#Comment_119287255

I would be worried about a Gov minister using Chinese spyware.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287774#Comment_119287774

With fuel prices through the roof (thanks to the general western green mania and climate cult), demand for turf is going to be very brisk this season. Rightly so too.

is_that_so

Budget Day will be 27 September this year, all €6.7bn of a Budget package. Summer Economic Statement due later today.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0704/1308256-budget-statement-summer-statement/

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289693#Comment_119289693

-3bn so should have been 9.7bn.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289632#Comment_119289632

Of course Blanch when I and others are referring to youth being able to rent or heavens above purchase a home we refer not just to the current generation but indeed the last over the past 10 years, many of whom who could but dream of owning a home., now of course its actually about finding a home let alone being able to afford to rent it. We refer to current those in their early 20"s starting out in careers, not as you may think, 16 to 20 year olds.

Of course the excitement of Darragh O Briens hair brained ideas, most stumbling before they even get off the ground, suggest the next generation will be facing even more daunting prospects with regard to home ownership in Ireland.

But on the point of Ireland being simply fantastic at educating our youth. Indeed but equally adept in encouraging them to leave and more would be gone if it weren't for covid. But in relation to apprenticeships, perhaps you've missed the news re construction, Trades and hospitality who's sector's have little or no apprentices coming out of training or qualifying any time soon. Instead these sectors, hoping, praying, longing for other folk from abroad to come here wether on work permits or visas......... Now back to housing, They've nowhere to live and will hardly come here and pay exorbitant rents or live in shoe boxes or work for a pittance in Hospitality, that ship has sailed I'm afraid.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288961#Comment_119288961

That's not what the issue is.

What happened was, Leo Tweeted a stats chart celebrating the stats without any context. Leo received many replies to said tweet suggesting that it is an odd thing to be patting himself on the back for, with most pointing out that everything is still crazy expensive, and a portion of the 'youth' having some form of employment, isn't going to help that.

Then somebody posted here some nonsense about bot accounts replying to the tweet, before it became apparent said poster didn't seem to know what bot accounts were. Other posters had pointed out his tweet had no context. Roll forward, another poster asked what was the context (genuinely). So there seem to have been a few that were unaware of any context, a few more replies and question was asked if the list was accurate (which I don't think anyone disputed). Then poster replied it was probably just a pile on Leo for a tweet. I replied it wasn't and pointed out what had been said and again, that Leo posted no context, and that anyone can post stats that say something, and posted a link to another stats tweet. To which yourself replied that they were vague stats that have stats reworked etc.. So full circle reversed with you now pointing out the very point others were making about Leo's tweet.

I pointed out to you that what you said is exactly what could be said of Leo's tweet, which is what the point was. Again citing the stats aren't under fire, they just give a very minute reason to be celebrating, all things considered. TBH, I am surprised/not surprised Leo has the audacity to post them as some sort of victory. So we're back at you pointing out that the Eurostats page provides context and information. Again, nobody is disputing that, but to save any time, and stop this going around in circles any longer, I have written it all down.

Leo provided no context in his tweet. The replies to his tweet are mainly about the fact that it's not really of any advantage to them (or anyone, really) with the cost of living being so high, rents being extortionate.

Nobody disputed the stats, just the fact that he gave no context.

As a side note - The context and information provided by Eurostat doesn't really provide a lot of information either, regarding how many are working, or how often etc.

the data on unemployment have been complemented by additional indicators, e.g. underemployed part-time workers, persons seeking work but not immediately available and persons available to work but not seeking, released together with LFS data for the fourth quarter of 2021

An unemployed person is defined by Eurostat, according to the guidelines of the International Labour Organization, as someone aged 15 to 74 without work during the reference week who is available to start work within the next two weeks and who has actively sought employment at some time during the last four weeks. The unemployment rate is the number of people unemployed as a percentage of the labour force.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288986#Comment_119288986

As above, nobody was complaining that employment was low, nor were they complaining that youth employment was low.

Emigration is not a year backpacking around Europe/Australia/The World.. 🙄

"i bet the same people complaining think a holiday in Spain in some resort which spent millions to look exactly like England/ireland is experiencing a different culture"

I must confess, I never knew that was a thing. I can't imagine anybody I know would spend money on travelling to Spain or any resort abroad to one that looked like Cavan or Mayo, as beautiful as they are, they would be better experienced for real.

I have never heard of a resort doing that, but would be interested in finding out where they are for the novelty of it, if you could provide a link please.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289693#Comment_119289693

Scary how dependent they’ve made the state on corporation tax. Nothing learned from the 00s whatsoever.

As for this massive increase in state expenditure- these things have become a nasty habit of being expected every year once the precedent is set. At full employment there should be a drive to slash welfare spending and decrease tax on working/enterprise to allow people generate and keep more of their own money

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289645#Comment_119289645

“Chinese spyware” based on what?

have you examined the source code?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290063#Comment_119290063

lets forget that TT parent company accessed us user data.