FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

Business sector led up the garden path again by Govt. Will the evidence which alleges these new 700k cases be released today for peer review by other experts. Or will it be behind a veil of secrecy. A total outlier now in Europe.

What confuses me,is similar modeling was mentioned a month ago re Northern Ireland by Swann
Its not happening
Their indoor dining has been open a while for all and we are catching up rapid on vaccination
I can understand a pause untill July 19th but that's as far as logical in my opinion

The fly in the ointment being the Chile experience I think
They were well advanced in vaccination and opened up
Cases and hospitalisations exploded
Its a risky decision either way

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

On Friday we will be the only country in Europe not allowing indoor dining.

Technically,but not the only in the EU
Tenerife closed indoor dining this week due to a spike

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

The fact that you as a discusser here are doing exactly in your language what you're complaining the government is doing is very relevant
Your refusal to recognise NPHET's position as the chief medical experts for Ireland and to instead slide around looking for all available language options to use them only when it suits you being a case in point
Its rank hypocrisy

You are comparing the responsibilities of a random poster on the internet to those of the 'government' in order to defend the government????

Wow. Brilliant!

The government have cited advice from the HSE, WHO, NPHET and others in their determinations to date.. 'Health advice' encompasses all of that.

Fann Linn

Marine Layer wrote: »

What confuses me,is similar modeling was mentioned a month ago re Northern Ireland by Swann
Its not happening
Their indoor dining has been open a while for all and we are catching up rapid on vaccination
I can understand a pause untill July 19th but that's as far as logical in my opinion

The fly in the ointment being the Chile experience I think
They were well advanced in vaccination and opened up
Cases and hospitalisations exploded
Its a risky decision either way

This is it. I heard some people on various shows this morning asking to see the data. A simple request I suppose. But we'll probably be told Nada.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

What confuses me,is similar modeling was mentioned a month ago re Northern Ireland by Swann
Its not happening
Their indoor dining has been open a while for all and we are catching up rapid on vaccination
I can understand a pause untill July 19th but that's as far as logical in my opinion

The fly in the ointment being the Chile experience I think
They were well advanced in vaccination and opened up
Cases and hospitalisations exploded
Its a risky decision either way

MAKE the decision, stop the confusion leaks and bull****. That is what they are being criticised for.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are comparing the responsibilities of a random poster on the internet to those of the 'government' in order to defend the government????

Wow. Brilliant!

The government have cited advice from the HSE, WHO, NPHET and others in their determinations to date.. 'Health advice' encompasses all of that.

You can't escape Francie,
You're all rules for thee but not for me in your discussions
Shoots your credibility when complaining right up when talking about the government's language given you go on with a good dose of it yourself

Refusing to answer a question directly as to whether the government should align with Nphet today or not (in case it affects your primary objective later and that's giving out) is a case in point

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

You can't escape Francie,
You're all rules for thee but not for me in your discussions
Shoots your credibility when complaining right up when talking about the government's language given you go on with a good dose of it yourself

Refusing to answer a question directly as to whether the government should align with Nphet today or not (in case it affects your primary objective later and that's giving out) is a case in point

I used 'health advice' for a reason. No confusion, only on the receiving end, as I have explained it twice now, what I was referring to.

You are desperate to deflect to this. Blanch is desperate to mis-represent too.

My 'criticism' has nothing to do with NPHET or the advice, it has to do with how the government is communicating.

But avoid dealing with that if you wish.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I used 'health advice' for a reason. No confusion, only on the receiving end, as I have explained it twice now, what I was referring to.

You are desperate to deflect to this. Blanch is desperate to mis-represent too.

My 'criticism' has nothing to do with NPHET or the advice, it has to do with how the government is communicating.

But avoid dealing with that if you wish.

Still doesn't cut it
Be clear in your own messaging before taking the moral high ground criticising the government's clarity
Rightly or wrongly the government will give clarity on their decision later today
Meanwhile you'll be anything but,if it gets in the way of giving out
Thats been my experience in discussions with you this morning and often

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Still doesn't cut it
Be clear in your own messaging before taking the moral high ground criticising the government's clarity
Rightly or wrongly the government will give clarity on their decision later today
Meanwhile you'll be anything but,if it gets in the way of giving out
Thats been my experience in discussions with you this morning and often

Another limp government defence goes down in flames. Cannot attack the point made - attack the poster.

Still no clarity and every Tom Dick and Harry speculating and kiteflying and hinting.

Said this a year ago.

Why not shut one of these two up - The Government or NPHET - let one of them do the communicating.
Shut Ministers and those privy to deliberations up - stop them playing 'look at me' in the media. (I'm looking at you Harris, Ryan, Varadkar, Holohan etc)

NPHET make their deliberations, give their advise - government meets to discuss and make final decision - THEN AND ONLY THEN - talk to the media? (oh yeh...stick to the decisions when you make them)

Seems fairly simple if you want to avoid confusion.

FrancieBrady

Jaysis, Donnelly is on News talking about indoor dining and they have done no contingency planning and need to look at how other countries have done it.

Unbelievable really.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another limp government defence goes down in flames. Cannot attack the point made - attack the poster.

I'm allowed question your credibility this morning based on your posts
That is actually attacking posts
You mightnt like it as you've been nailed

Now that the government on this occasion has followed Nphet advice (how long for remains to be seen) My question for you now is ,do you support that or not ?

Cue a long winded obfuscated reply that avoids a yes or no again I suppose in the fear such clarity hampers the primary objective of giving out

blanch152

Marine Layer wrote: »

Refusing to answer a question directly as to whether the government should align with Nphet today or not (in case it affects your primary objective later and that's giving out) is a case in point

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jaysis, Donnelly is on News talking about indoor dining and they have done no contingency planning and need to look at how other countries have done it.

Unbelievable really.

I think Marine Layer pretty much hit the nail on the head there, and had it confirmed within minutes.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

I'm allowed question your credibility this morning based on your posts
That is actually attacking posts
You mightnt like it as you've been nailed

Now that the government on this occasion has followed Nphet advice (how long for remains to be seen) My question for you now is ,do you support that or not ?

Cue long winded obfuscated reply that avoids a yes or no again I suppose in the fear such clarity hampers the primary objective of giving out

Nailed? How?

Health advise: comes from WHO, NPHET, HSE, NIAC etc etc.

You still have to point out how that is wrong.

I know it wasn't the answer you want but how was it wrong?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I think Marine Layer pretty much hit the nail on the head there, and had it confirmed within minutes.

Donelly is confused and dithering ...are you listening? The interviewer is putting him over it again and again and not getting any clear answers.

Floppybits

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nailed? How?

Health advise: comes from WHO, NPHET, HSE, NIAC etc etc.

You still have to point out how that is wrong.

I know it wasn't the answer you want but how was it wrong?

He nailed it because he agrees with the other poster. Cmon Francie got to get with the programme remember when the poster agreed that anyone who questions this government are 'special needs' well this is what you are seeing here. Do not question the government they are all knowing?

FrancieBrady

I'm not alone in my bewilderment as to what I just listened to:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Stephen%20Donnelly%22&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Donelly is confused and dithering ...are you listening? The interviewer is putting him over it again and again and not getting any clear answers.

You clearly empathise with him then. To say your posts are equally confused and dithering would be an insult to Donnelly though.

WE know you are against whatever the Goverment does, and particularly against whatever Leo says, but what exactly are you in favour of?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm not alone in my bewilderment as to what I just listened to:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Stephen%20Donnelly%22&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

That could just mean that there are more than one fool, couldn't it?

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

He nailed it because he agrees with the other poster. Cmon Francie got to get with the programme remember when the poster agreed that anyone who questions this government are 'special needs' well this is what you are seeing here. Do not question the government they are all knowing?

I am questioning the government actually
Except I'm being clear
My opinion is the Nphet advice is the most OTT proclamation yet from them
2000 dead by September?
700,000 new cases
The dead would have to be mostly young people or vaccines shown by phe to be working excellently against Delta would suddenly have to stop working
Theres none of this OTT stuff coming out of GB at the moment

blanch152

Marine Layer wrote: »

I am questioning the government actually
Except I'm being clear
My opinion is the Nphet advice is the most OTT proclamation yet from them
2000 dead by September?
700,000 new cases
The dead would have to be mostly young people or vaccines shown by phe to be working excellently against Delta would suddenly have to stop working
Theres none of this OTT stuff coming out of GB at the moment

I would tend to agree with you. What evidence there is though, revolves around one dose of the AZ vaccine not being sufficient. The NPHET advice, like all advice assumes little changes. If we vaccinate quickly the remaining AZ one-dosers, the bad scenarios have little to no chance.

Cluedo Monopoly

blanch152 wrote: »

That could just mean that there are more than one fool, couldn't it?

If you thought that was a competent interview then more fool you. He'll be "grounded" again if he appears on the media again so unprepared.

jammiedodgers

In fairness if he managed to avoid mentioning trampolines it's probably an improvement for him. Baby steps.

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

That could just mean that there are more than one fool, couldn't it?

Correct Blanch. The other fool running Nphet after his performance in the cervical check fiasco.

rob316

They are absolutely finished, the next GE will be a FF FG bloodbath

Shebean

A lot deflecting and hiding from the problem. Poor communication.
Of course health advice should be followed. The government should set deadlines for deciding to open so business people have advance notice and know where they stand.
We had Varadkar talking about the possibility of vaccine passports and Farrell saying it won't work and a while ago Ryan saying it wasn't a runner and today Martin saying they are looking at stuff.
It's very easy, but they don't want to be held responsible. Set a planned opening date. Set a yes/no date to decide two weeks in advance.
They are being wishy-washy so they can shift blame which is resulting in choppy communication and indecision.

Floppybits

Shebean wrote: »

A lot deflecting and hiding from the problem. Poor communication.
Of course health advice should be followed. The government should set deadlines for deciding to open so business people have advance notice and know where they stand.
We had Varadkar talking about the possibility of vaccine passports and Farrell saying it won't work and a while ago Ryan saying it wasn't a runner and today Martin saying they are looking at stuff.
It's very easy, but they don't want to be held responsible. Set a planned opening date. Set a yes/no date to decide two weeks in advance.
They are being wishy-washy so they can shift blame which is resulting in choppy communication and indecision.

After today they will never give a date again. They are afraid to make a decision simple as that. It has been Martins MO since he was a minister and now doing it as Taoiseach.

A lot of anger out there at this decision.

ineedeuro

Floppybits wrote: »

After today they will never give a date again. They are afraid to make a decision simple as that. It has been Martins MO since he was a minister and now doing it as Taoiseach.

A lot of anger out there at this decision.

Really? apart from the usuals who seem to lose the plot at every announcement, most people at this stage would prefer to just get the pandemic over & done with. Not having a meal inside for a few weeks is not going to massively affect them

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You clearly empathise with him then. To say your posts are equally confused and dithering would be an insult to Donnelly though.

WE know you are against whatever the Goverment does, and particularly against whatever Leo says, but what exactly are you in favour of?

Again, the mis-representation.

I am against some of what this government does. If I was against 'everything' this thread would be 20 times the length it is.

If I am confusing you, ask for clarification. Stop venting about things you aren't prepared to back up.

Shebean

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, the mis-representation.

I am against some of what this government does. If I was against 'everything' this thread would be 20 times the length it is.

If I am confusing you, ask for clarification. Stop venting about things you aren't prepared to back up.

It seems government having poor communication and avoiding responsibility is down to your previous commentary. Explain yourself

blanch152

rob316 wrote: »

They are absolutely finished, the next GE will be a FF FG bloodbath

The next election is a long way away.

(1) Leo will be Taoiseach, a far better communicator than Martin
(2) Green policies will be having a real positive effect