FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

FrancieBrady

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

He sounded very silly on Radio 1 when asked that question.

Ryan, sounding sillier on Claire Byrne now. 'Forward...reverse...sideways...reverse again'.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

He sounded very silly on Radio 1 when asked that question.

I was listening, what's dithering about saying the information will be supplied?
I think its OUTRIGHT wrong by the way that all opposition parties aren't given sight of Nphets detailed modeling and thoughts all the time
I simply do not understand
What does the cabinet sub committee get besides the cmo's letter ?
If its only the cmo's letter,that is always published

Cluedo Monopoly

Marine Layer wrote: »

I was listening, what's dithering about saying the information will be supplied?
I think its OUTRIGHT wrong by the way that all opposition parties aren't given sight of Nphets detailed modeling and thoughts all the time
I simply do not understand
What does the cabinet sub committee get besides the cmo's letter ?
If its only the cmo's letter,that is always published

You didn't even mention the word oblique

Leo was asked why he wasn't sharing info with the opposition (as per Shortall comments). Leo said they do brief the opposition but then admitted when questioned further that the last time was many months ago. It was December!

Listen back. He was flapping.

FrancieBrady

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

You didn't even mention the word oblique

Leo was asked why he wasn't sharing info with the opposition (as per Shortall comments). Leo said they do brief the opposition but then admitted when questioned further that the last time was many months ago. It was December!

Listen back. He was flapping.

Absolutely this.

is_that_so

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0629/1232091-ministers-nphet-comment/





This is another fallout from the meaningful Christmas where the govt went against Nphet advice. The cabinet abdicated responsibility after that and now the two of them don't seem to be able to collaborate. Crazy stuff.

No plan. No details. Just chaos.

And for the second time why would they have a plan for something that was never going to be government policy? This has been forced upon them by NPHET. If you just want to rant that's fine but do add some facts to it.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

And for the second time why would they have a plan for something that was never going to be government policy? This has been forced upon them by NPHET. If you just want to rant that's fine but do add some facts to it.

NPHET told them international travel was unsafe but they are ignoring that and allowing it.

One minute, it is 'they are forced to follow NPHET advice' the next it is, 'they have decided not to follow NPHET on that because.......'

Confused? I think most of the country is.

Fann Linn

Worst in class:
https://twitter.com/marktigheST/status/1410158673486307331?s=19

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Varadkar got hammered by Shortall for not briefing the opposition properly too yesterday. Spluttered and dithered about it when challenged on Morning Ireland.

And of course the mandatory, 'we'll look at that now' plámas.

We are well over a year into this, there should be no excuses at this stage.

Yada Yada Yada, more of the same, criticise the government no matter what they do, double down when it is Leo.

You led the charge in January, blaming the government for opening too soon and too quickly at Christmas, now you lead the charge blaming them for delaying opening.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The Delta variant has changed the plan.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/30/covid-sage-scientist-fears-england-could-repeat-mistakes-of-last-summer

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/28/now-is-not-time-abandon-all-covid-caution-analysis

"Even Israel, which has one of the highest vaccination rates globally, is not immune to the wrath of Delta. The country was forced to reimpose mask mandates last week due to a steep rise in cases, just 10 days after lifting the requirement."

All around the world, governments are delaying reopenings, slowing down the easing of restrictions, but, hey, don't let that stop you from non-stop criticism.

Is the government right to delay indoor dining? Based on the available information, the answer is YES. All of the other guff is meaningless.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yada Yada Yada, more of the same, criticise the government no matter what they do, double down when it is Leo.

You led the charge in January, blaming the government for opening too soon and too quickly at Christmas, now you lead the charge blaming them for delaying opening.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The Delta variant has changed the plan.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/30/covid-sage-scientist-fears-england-could-repeat-mistakes-of-last-summer

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/28/now-is-not-time-abandon-all-covid-caution-analysis

"Even Israel, which has one of the highest vaccination rates globally, is not immune to the wrath of Delta. The country was forced to reimpose mask mandates last week due to a steep rise in cases, just 10 days after lifting the requirement."

All around the world, governments are delaying reopenings, slowing down the easing of restrictions, but, hey, don't let that stop you from non-stop criticism.

Is the government right to delay indoor dining? Based on the available information, the answer is YES. All of the other guff is meaningless.

Yep...it had to come. The blanch defence of something he has invented.

I am not criticising the government for delaying the re-opening. I am criticisng them for the appalling record they have on communicating what they are doing.
I am criticising them for ministers not being properly briefed and waffling and lying (Varadkar got caught doing that on Morning Ireland) and 'plámasing' when stuck in their own dug holes.

Cluedo Monopoly

is_that_so wrote: »

And for the second time why would they have a plan for something that was never going to be government policy? This has been forced upon them by NPHET. If you just want to rant that's fine but do add some facts to it.

Nope. Government policy can change especially during Covid. Every and all mitigation plans need to be considered. Standard risk management. They have known about the Indian variant for months. This green pass isn't a revolutionary new idea - other countries have been doing it for months. The government should have looked at the pros, cons and logistics well before the shock idea from NPHET.

is_that_so

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Nope. Government policy can change especially during Covid. Every and all mitigation plans need to be considered. Standard risk management. They have known about the Indian variant for months. This green pass isn't a revolutionary new idea - other countries have been doing it for months.

It has remained unchanged because they had no plans to change nor to ever implement it. Really not that hard to understand.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yep...it had to come. The blanch defence of something he has invented.

I am not criticising the government for delaying the re-opening. I am criticisng them for the appalling record they have on communicating what they are doing.
I am criticising them for ministers not being properly briefed and waffling and lying (Varadkar got caught doing that on Morning Ireland) and 'plámasing' when stuck in their own dug holes.

In a rapidly changing environment with this amount of variables, the message will change every week, and possibly every day. If the message isn't changing in response to the rapidly changing environment, then the government wouldn't be doing their job.

It is a silly, pointless and naive criticism therefore to focus on their communication. The only communication of relevance is the latest one. Your approach of criticising them for telling us something will happen a month ago, and now telling us it won't is borderline hysterical.

Cluedo Monopoly

is_that_so wrote: »

It has remained unchanged because they had no plans to change nor to ever implement it. Really not that hard to understand.

So why don't they tell NPHET (or the public) that they reject their advice because their superbly planned policy can never change?

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am not criticising the government for delaying the re-opening. I am criticisng them for the appalling record they have on communicating what they are doing.
I am criticising them for ministers not being properly briefed and waffling and lying (Varadkar got caught doing that on Morning Ireland) and 'plámasing' when stuck in their own dug holes.

Well they did get landed in it, yet again, by NPHET, also no great shakes in telling people, including their boss, what they are up to. Hard to look good when you're in a reactionary mode. Martin has also never been the most effective communicator but a lot of poor communications is down to the media seeking out random politicians. Last summer it all deferred to just two people and was a lot simpler.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

In a rapidly changing environment with this amount of variables, the message will change every week, and possibly every day. If the message isn't changing in response to the rapidly changing environment, then the government wouldn't be doing their job.

It is a silly, pointless and naive criticism therefore to focus on their communication. The only communication of relevance is the latest one. Your approach of criticising them for telling us something will happen a month ago, and now telling us it won't is borderline hysterical.

Ah, the' the past is irrelevant when it comes to FF FG' argument again.

Good man blanch, you never fail me.

Bass Reeves

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yep...it had to come. The blanch defence of something he has invented.

I am not criticising the government for delaying the re-opening. I am criticisng them for the appalling record they have on communicating what they are doing.
I am criticising them for ministers not being properly briefed and waffling and lying (Varadkar got caught doing that on Morning Ireland) and 'plámasing' when stuck in their own dug holes.

4 weeks ago we opened outdoor dining and drinking. It would have been very hard d to make a call before the weekend. The Delta variant is much more troublesome. It only really around since early May. It very hard to do modeling on ut until you have 3-4 weeks data. You cannot model too much from other countries as they have all different models of reopening.

However I am runnings out of sympathy for some business owners. Many (not all) sat back at the end of May and decided that they would wait until July to reopen as they did not want to make the effort to reopen outside. Many are just taking the Government's reopening grant and pocketing it.

It's really noticeable in places. No attempt to put up windbreakers or covered area's. No attempt to try to try to be innovative. In my local area there is three villages. In one village neither of the two pubs were reopening, one has made a half hearted attempt last weekend.

Compare that to a pub outside one of the villages who since Christmas has put up and created an L shaped roofed area that is sheltered by a hedge on a third side. Of the 8-9 pubs in the locality 4 could have done similar he is the only one. No e made an effort for on street tables.

Business need to help themselves not sit around with open months complaining and blaming the government. It the same with the average Joe. COVID will be with us for the next 4-5 years IMO. People need to learn to manage it and get on with it

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah, the' the past is irrelevant when it comes to FF FG' argument again.

Good man blanch, you never fail me.

Another example of your blatant misrepresentation of others.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

Well they did get landed in it, yet again, by NPHET, also no great shakes in telling people, including their boss, what they are up to. Hard to look good when you're in a reactionary mode. Martin has also never been the most effective communicator but a lot of poor communications is down to the media seeking out random politicians. Last summer it all deferred to just two people and was a lot simpler.

Donnelly, the Minister for Health and Varadkar the Tanaiste...are 'random politicians'?

Full on defence mode here today I see.

International travel and indoor dining options have been discussed for months. They weren't 'landed in it'. Big stretch there.

ineedeuro

It’s another day with the same few people throwing hands up in the air and getting confused and exclaiming they don’t know what to do
It’s been the same few people since Feb last year and at this stage let them off.
The explanations from the government are poor, have been since day 1 but we have to expect the detail behind them is good. It’s not like the opposition are any better, I heard cries of “open the pubs” from loads of them last year, then a week later “close the pubs”. Just as incompetent

Not sure why we should compare ourselves to what they are doing in Europe? We should just crack on and get the vaccinations done ASAP. The open up the whole country and get on with it. Plus as pointed out loads of europe is outside dining so the risk is a lot less than ireland

I am sure the same people who are confused about covid will find something new to get confused about and complain about once this is all over

is_that_so

Bass Reeves wrote: »

4 weeks ago we opened outdoor dining and drinking. It would have been very hard d to make a call before the weekend. The Delta variant is much more troublesome. It only really around since early May. It very hard to do modeling on ut until you have 3-4 weeks data. You cannot model too much from other countries as they have all different models of reopening.

However I am runnings out of sympathy for some business owners. Many (not all) sat back at the end of May and decided that they would wait until July to reopen as they did not want to make the effort to reopen outside. Many are just taking the Government's reopening grant and pocketing it.

It's really noticeable in places. No attempt to put up windbreakers or covered area's. No attempt to try to try to be innovative. In my local area there is three villages. In one village neither of the two pubs were reopening, one has made a half hearted attempt last weekend.

Compare that to a pub outside one of the villages who since Christmas has put up and created an L shaped roofed area that is sheltered by a hedge on a third side. Of the 8-9 pubs in the locality 4 could have done similar he is the only one. No e made an effort for on street tables.

Business need to help themselves not sit around with open months complaining and blaming the government. It the same with the average Joe. COVID will be with us for the next 4-5 years IMO. People need to learn to manage it and get on with it

The pause as it's now being called will also push out other plans and that's assuming that NPHET don't call for another one in three weeks. I take your point about some business owners but they did view this date as being certain and something to plan for. Now we look to be up in the air again and that uncertainty is anathema to business and to the rest of us.

FrancieBrady

ineedeuro wrote: »

It’s another day with the same few people throwing hands up in the air and getting confused and exclaiming they don’t know what to do
It’s been the same few people since Feb last year and at this stage let them off.
The explanations from the government are poor, have been since day 1 but we have to expect the detail behind them is good. It’s not like the opposition are any better, I heard cries of “open the pubs” from loads of them last year, then a week later “close the pubs”. Just as incompetent

Not sure why we should compare ourselves to what they are doing in Europe? We should just crack on and get the vaccinations done ASAP. The open up the whole country and get on with it. Plus as pointed out loads of europe is outside dining so the risk is a lot less than ireland

I am sure the same people who are confused about covid will find something new to get confused about and complain about once this is all over

The opposition that hasn't been briefed with the details/modelling since December?

ineedeuro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The opposition that hasn't been briefed with the details/modelling since December?

It was last year when they shouted about opening and closing the pubs.

FrancieBrady

ineedeuro wrote: »

It was last year when they shouted about opening and closing the pubs.

So it's the opposition's fault. Quelle surprise.

ineedeuro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So it's the opposition's fault. Quelle surprise.

Who said it was the opposition fault?

Fann Linn

ineedeuro wrote: »

It’s another day with the same few people throwing hands up in the air and getting confused and exclaiming they don’t know what to do
It’s been the same few people since Feb last year and at this stage let them off.
The explanations from the government are poor, have been since day 1 but we have to expect the detail behind them is good. It’s not like the opposition are any better, I heard cries of “open the pubs” from loads of them last year, then a week later “close the pubs”. Just as incompetent

Not sure why we should compare ourselves to what they are doing in Europe? We should just crack on and get the vaccinations done ASAP. The open up the whole country and get on with it. Plus as pointed out loads of europe is outside dining so the risk is a lot less than ireland

I am sure the same people who are confused about covid will find something new to get confused about and complain about once this is all over

'... the same few people..... '

That would be the Clergy, trade unions, ISME, IBEC, the airline industry, travel industry, sporting bodies, mental health advocacy groups, Gardai, Service providers, Tom Parlon & the Building Industry, publicans, hoteliers, the elderly, cancer patients, Ogra FG, 7 elected members of FF, numerous academics and medical professionals, economists, Ossian Smith Green Party, Pharmacists, schools & colleges and last but not least the Opposition.

So to paraphrase yourself, 'its another day with a broad section of Society throwing hands up in the air and getting confused..... '

Who do you blame for that?

FrancieBrady

ineedeuro wrote: »

Who said it was the opposition fault?

So it is not the oppositions fault. Ok.

Bubbaclaus

If only the Government had some sort of...Strategic Communications Unit...or something

padd b1975

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The opposition that hasn't been briefed with the details/modelling since December?

If you don't leave early, you might actually learn something.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mcdonald-left-health-officials-briefing-after-less-than-an-hour-39649449.html

FrancieBrady

padd b1975 wrote: »

If you don't leave early, you might actually learn something.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mcdonald-left-health-officials-briefing-after-less-than-an-hour-39649449.html

How that excuses not properly briefing those that want briefed since December or first bluffing/lying about it when asked in an interview and having to admit you are bluffing/lying, escapes me.

Cluedo Monopoly

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

If only the Government had some sort of...Strategic Communications Unit...or something

Maybe they need more advisors?