FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

atticu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599437#Comment_119599437

Asylum seekers are not treated differently based on where they come from.

If you have any proof that they are, please post it to back up your claim.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/20/europe/ireland-ukraine-refugees-controversy-intl-cmd/index.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599519#Comment_119599519

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/refugees-ireland-direct-provision-5778858-Jun2022/

I mean this remedial level stuff.... abolish direct provision and give same treatment to all refugees

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/only-natural-ireland-would-respond-differently-to-refugees-from-ukraine-tanaiste-says-1.4834305

jmcc

There may be a B&A and/or a RedC poll out tonight. B&A generally favours FF due to face to face polling. RedC uses a 40K panel rather than random sampling.

If FF is down in a B&A poll, it is a problem for it. RedC polls are generally available around 21:00 to make the 9 o'clock news with the B&A ones appearing closer to midnight.

Regards...jmcc

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599066#Comment_119599066

In the context of health it really doesn't because Slaintecare will ultimately be the system for any government. Our current scenario is likely to be with us for a decade or more. It's like a 600km long tanker they are trying to turn around. The issues have largely been identified but much of it is at the core of the health service, i.e. mostly the HSE, but governments are a handy target and that won't change.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599248#Comment_119599248

Yeah, if only we could actually find those elusive consultants. Tough out there for medical recruitment and we are in direct competition with the likes of the NHS, big tax free money in the Gulf and the seduction of the Australian lifestyle.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599539#Comment_119599539

Dean Van Nguyen is a music journalist and cultural critic so clearly has some expertise in this area. 

With a bit of Googling Dean might have learned that the laws which govern the Temporary Directive have been in place at EU level for 20 years but never used until February of this year and quite probably will not be used again. It's been in our own laws since 2015. He might also have reflected that the groups he is raising the flag for will very likely be here permanently, the Ukrainians largely will not.

All of this is a bit inconvenient, given the urge that some need to stir up antipathy towards people fleeing a war really not far off our doorstep and directly affecting our pockets very badly.

I'm inclined to think that many of the commentators on the overall refugee situation didn't really care two hoots about until this war started and the Directive was invoked.

maceoin.D.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600162#Comment_119600162

Our current scenario is likely to be with us for a decade or more.

While I understand your worries, Slaintecare would operate completely differently under a new government. Our healthcare problems are certainly not solely down to incompetence on Slaintecare's side. Our problems in general are not solely due to incompetence. Much of the feet dragging and obsolescence in Irish legislature and administration is deliberate. It doesn't matter to FFG if being updated to standard, or much needed restructuring in certain sectors would make things better for Irish society and the average citizen. Those things would cost money. They would also offer the average man a level of security and comfort. That would not suit what the trends we see in the housing/accommodation sector and income inequality issue have been indicating for some time; the FFG coalition are more than just incompetent, they're intentionally making things difficult for personal gain.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600428#Comment_119600428

Yep I always remember the INMO begging and pleading for help in November 2019 before Covid even existed.

2019 breaks record for most patients on trolleys – and it’s not even December (inmo.ie)

2019 has seen the highest number of patients on trolleys in any year since records began – despite it still being November.

The INMO is calling for extra staffing and an increase in hospital, homecare, and community capacity to deal with the problem.

The union has invoked health and safety laws for staff, writing to the Health and Safety Authority and HIQA, seeking their intervention.

“Winter has only just begun and the record is already broken. These statistics are the hallmark of a wildly bureaucratic health service, which is failing staff and patients alike.

“We take no pleasure in having to record these figures for a decade and a half. We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.

“No other developed country faces anything close to this trolley problem. It can be solved, but a strong political agenda to drive change is needed.

"Hospitals should be a place of safety and care – not danger.”

-----------

Nobody in FFG was listening.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597069#Comment_119597069

And what has Denis O'Brien allegedly being a longtime friend of FG got to do with me?

maceoin.D.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600509#Comment_119600509

It's unbelievable. The arrogance of the lot of them is sickening. I don't believe for a second that there has been a free and fair election here for decades. You wouldn't get that level of assuredness while doing such despicable things- nor would you be confident that you would receive votes in the next election- unless you had an ace or two up your sleeve.

Our turnout could be better for elections and there are some clear biases in votership from people working in government org's that hold up for FF and FG come election time. Still, it does not feel as though they have had the support of the public for some time. After doing some digging recently, I found that the ninth amendment had an enactment passed by the government back in 1985 that allowed British citizens to vote in local, EU and Dáil elections. This was a year after we voted in a referendum that addressed electoral voting rights. Even after Brexit, the British are allowed to vote, and EU citizens and other non-EU international citizens are only allowed to vote locally.

While that might not seem like much, I have to question why it was only the Brits that were enabled to vote in Dáil and EU elections. There are strong connections between Bristol and Cork as well, that could well have favoured FF over the years. There was even an article I found that suggested there was a sizeable amount of people from Bristol who wanted to retain EU citizenship after Brexit by way of an 850+ year old charter that was never overturned. The lengths that FF and FG have gone through for what has always turned out to be a great big let down in 'leadership' is astounding.

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600553#Comment_119600553

Where did I say he (O'Brien) had anything to do with you?

Exactly, I did not. However you do seem to spend an unhealthy amount of time defending all things Fine Gael related, who as already mentioned appear to award Mr O'Brien a very coincidental high number of state contracts when they are in power.

jmcc

FG on worst ever showing in RedC poll (18%). FF increase.

https://www.businesspost.ie/politics/red-c-poll-crunch-time-for-varadkar-as-fine-gaels-support-hits-lowest-level-ever/

Paywalled.

Regards...jmcc

Shebean

All those experts didn't leave because Slaintecare was taking too long, they left because the government did nothing to move it along. Maybe somebody should have told them the Government aren't responsible for anything.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601254#Comment_119601254

Nothing to see here not election year something. 🤪

atticu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599539#Comment_119599539

I see where you are confused here.

Asylum seekers = people seeking International Protection.

People fleeing the war in Ukrainian = people who can avail of Temporary Protection within the EU.

These people are treated differently by the state due to their status in the state.

You claimed: The government whom treats asylum seekers different based arbitrary on where they come from.

you still need to back up that claim.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601292#Comment_119601292

:) No problems for FG at all. There's also chatter about FG being in "election mode" though on these figures it would not be a good election.

SF: 35% FG: 18% FF: 17% PBP-S: 3% SD: 4% LP: 4% AÚ: 2% GP: 5% I/O: 12%

Regards...jmcc

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601384#Comment_119601384

I think FF might be in election mode also as our local FF TD personally hand delivered some party leaflet to my house yesterday evening.

My first response to my wife when she returned with it from the front door was "must be an election coming soon".

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601475#Comment_119601475

The Budget could be the flashpoint. It depends on how many FFG backbenchers think that they can save their seats by voting against it. Martin might get his wish of leading FF into another GE though the FF Ard Fheis is later this month.

Regards...jmcc

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601254#Comment_119601254

Amazing. I cannot see a reshuffle making a blind bit of difference.

xxxxxxl

I know it's late but the poll seems to have quietened the thread down quite a bit. 🤣

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601716#Comment_119601716

The Sunday Times/B&A poll has FG 4% behind FF with SF still leading. the ST site probably won't be updated until after midnight. That's FG down in two polls but most importantly in the RedC poll. (Busy working late on a large historical database project here with about 23 years worth of data despite being told by two "experts" on the Abu thread that I knew nothing about databases. :) )

Figures from ST/B&A:

SF 35%

FF 24%

FG 20% (going by Tweet and ST website.)

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601704#Comment_119601704

It would if it was Jennifer Carroll MacNeill being promoted. She could be a possible leader for FG that is a bit above McEntee and Harris in terms of credibility. Varadkar has been a disaster for FG and he couldn't get rid of Coveney as Coveney is too well supported in FG. Donohoe might also be a possible contender but he's stick with Finance and trying to sort out the budget. FG has a history of tearing itself apart and someone (FitzGerald?) said that if it was raining soup that FG would be out with a fork.

It is almost like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic but a ministerial seat might give a bit of a boost to some candidates in the upcoming GE. In 2002, FG's "officer class" was obliterated. FG management probably doesn't want a repeat of that and is planning to save as many high-profile TDs as it can.

Regards...jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601370#Comment_119601370

Just sad now is all this is

An asylum seeker is a person who leaves their country of residence, enters another country and applies for asylum in this other country. An asylum seeker is an immigrant who has been forcibly displaced and might have fled their home country because of war or other factors harming them or their family

Fact is,someone fleeing war in Ukraine is treated differently to someone fleeing war in middle east......quite why yous want to gloss over,what is essentially racism,with pedanticism is something for you alone to come to terms with

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601762#Comment_119601762

Thanks jmcc. You're a wealth of information. Congrats to FG for the rehabilitation of FF but good that they are both in a downward spiral.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600717#Comment_119600717

It's unbelievable. The arrogance of the lot of them is sickening. I don't believe for a second that there has been a free and fair election here for decades. You wouldn't get that level of assuredness while doing such despicable things- nor would you be confident that you would receive votes in the next election- unless you had an ace or two up your sleeve.

So when was the last free and fair one? Judging by the conspiracy stuff here never. If this is even remotely true what's your solution to fix it? People get elected by having a message that appeals to voters. They also get elected by playing the parish pump card better and some get in because they are or are not in a particular type of party.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600509#Comment_119600509

The INMO have been pushing this line for the best part of a decade. Given who they represent it's not surprising. I'm not knocking them but they are one of the many vested interests in the HSE and sure more nurses would be great but it is only one part of the problem. It always amuses me how there is a rant against the number of admin staff as the real flaw at the centre of the health service. Some may be complete dead wood but without them all the stuff that ensures all the frontline activities continue would disappear. Medicine involves lots of paperwork and very obviously the admin workforce to deal with it.

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601254#Comment_119601254

Worst polling result for them in 17 years apparently. Leo Varadkar has been an absolute disaster for them. That's undeniable now at this stage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119602372#Comment_119602372

They've set their stall out as aiming for 32% of the vote at next election

All very admirable and what not,but whom will/should be held personally responsible,if/when they fail to reach that figure

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119602463#Comment_119602463

but whom will/should be held personally responsible,if/when they fail to reach that figure

My money's on Paul Murphy, the left and Sinn Fein.

atticu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601850#Comment_119601850

Someone fleeing the war in the Ukraine is not an asylum seeker. They do not have to apply for asylum.

Your claim that asylum seekers are treated different is not true.