FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461521#Comment_121461521

supported by all the other parties

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483860#Comment_121483860

Did all the other parties create and sustain the housing crisis which has led to all this anti-immigrant sentiment?

#buildHomesNotHate

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483340#Comment_121483340

He was opening the new bypass at Moycullen at 9am this morning. Arrived in a helicopter. Surely a Taoiseach is too senior for nonsense like opening roads.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483860#Comment_121483860

Oh please. FF broke the housing market and FG somehow made it worse. 2 parties. I don't think you have any idea how angry young people are about their rental costs and house prices.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484381#Comment_121484381

seem to spend a lot of time objecting to them just like all the other parties

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484594#Comment_121484594

What's ro and what are they objecting to?

That statement doesn't make much sense to me.

spaceHopper

It's natural but not a disaster. Property that is insured was damaged. Not really a disaster. Thankfully.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483656#Comment_121483656

There were injuries, there are houses with roofs ripped off and walls that were pushed over. Yeah, sounds minor to me.

Might as well throw in the housing stuff as well then, cause that has everything to do with what happened in Leitrim.

Cluedo Monopoly

When I think of the 4km stretch of road that Leo "opened" yesterday and I think of the disaster that is the children's hospital, you have to wonder where their priorities lie. 7 years late, 6 times over budget, final cost unknown, opening date unknown. How many roads and other healthcare facilities could have we have built using the massive overspend? They don't even want to talk about the children's hospital anymore but they have time to open roads and visit tornado sites. Get back to work, you have created a society full of problems in basic services - housing, health, environment etc etc. Methinks Leo will leave Irish politics very soon.

Cluedo Monopoly

Perhaps Leo should get in his helicopter and visit a hospital. He can explain to the people on trolleys why they are there. The trolley crisis is worsening by the day!

5 days ago...

INMO Trolley watch: 484 patients waiting for beds in Irish hospitals

484 admitted patients are waiting for beds this morning, according to Thursday's Irish Nurses Midwives Organisations (INMO) Trolley Watch.

349 patients are waiting in the emergency department, while 135 are in wards elsewhere in the hospital.

The hospital with the most amount of patients waiting on beds is University Hospital Limerick, with 91 patients waiting on beds. 43 of those patients are in the emergency department, with 48 elsewhere in the hospital.

3 hours ago...

The INMO demands that the HSE take urgent action as 747 patients wait for a hospital bed. Figures showed that 747 admitted patients, including 32 children, were waiting for a hospital bed yesterday morning. 

=================

He should let management know before he arrives so they can hide the trolleys. That's what they normally do when ministers and Taoiseachs visit hospitals. As a former failed health minister, Leo will know how it works. They could get him to cut a ribbon somewhere for optics. This government and it's head in the sand supporters...

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476325#Comment_121476325

That article is crazy.

A more robust analysis would conclude that we have been very good at planning for the future in some areas, badly in others, and just got it wrong a few times.

To give an example of the last point, we have possibly the best network of inter-city motorways in Europe at a time when the emphasis has moved to public transport. We did plan, but we planned for the wrong thing.

On education, we have planned really well, executed really well and got nearly all of it right. Our kids are the best-educated in Ireland, we have moved to create a network of new modern technological universities in the regions to complement the traditional older universities, while also building up further education to create a comprehensive tertiary education sector.

Our Children's Hospital will be the finest in Europe when completed, albeit at huge cost.

On public transport, we are finally getting it right with three major public transport projects progressing through An Bord Pleanala, with the first going to tender next year.

Then, and probably the best of all, the way that we have managed FDI for nearly half a century, becoming the place in Europe to base your multinational. All planned and executed expertly.

People talk about the luck of the Irish but if the likes of Ciaran Casey and his misery economics are correct, we are off the scale in terms of luck, seeing as we are doing so well.

marno21

To give an example of the last point, we have possibly the best network of inter-city motorways in Europe at a time when the emphasis has moved to public transport. We did plan, but we planned for the wrong thing.

We build motorways in the 00s that other countries built in the 70s and 80s. Other countries focus on public transport now because they have a fully functional highway network. Look at the Netherlands for example. The motorways built in Ireland have been a remarkably good investment for the country and definitely helped in the recovery years by making the regions more accessible.

Investing in public transport along said corridors would have had a much less benefit because we are a low density, sparsely populated island.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487556#Comment_121487556

You've some gall defending this shower, and the best you can do is a rip off hospital and few roads, which no doubt we also massively overpaid for.

How about the fact the housing is now affordable to all but the very highest paid?

Or that young people are dying needlessly on hospital trolleys?

The only hope FFG have of staying in power is because of a lack of alternative. Not remotely because of anything they've 'achieved'.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487678#Comment_121487678

If somebody is going to claim that we were the worst for planning over the last century when we managed to turn ourselves from the poorest country in Europe to among the richest, then they deserve to have that pointed out and laughed at.

Health and housing are problems everywhere, it is why the opposition have no solutions, only soundbites. The only thing you are correct about is that there are no alternatives to the Greens, FF and FG, every other party in the Dail hasn't a clue.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487678#Comment_121487678

The faux outrage doesn't work to be honest. The housing numbers don't lie. Home ownership rates are circa 70% in Ireland and the majority of new builds are going to people buying to live in.

Yes we need more homes but a lot of parties have spent a significant about of time and energy blocking homes getting build across the country. This is creating a backlog which needs to be resolved.

Not sure why you are using someone dying as some sort of points winning exercise online. The HSE needs work, if you think the answer is coming from Sinn Fein did you see the people flocking over the border during covid? I have no idea how to fix the HSE and Im not sure who does

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487602#Comment_121487602

We hadn't the money or population to build a huge network of roads in 70/80. Most people left to work in other countries as soon as they could.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487602#Comment_121487602

Realistically the motorways had to be the primary investment at the time. It is unfortunate we couldn't build them earlier but we simply had no money.

Public transport investment has been delayed by the 09 GFC just as it was about to get going, but it is ramping up again now.

When people ask how we have such a supposedly strong economy yet weak infrastructure the answer is relatively straightforward. We have gone from being 50 years behind everyone to 20 years behind (or whatever metric you choose to use).

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487556#Comment_121487556

Our Children's Hospital will be the finest in Europe when completed, albeit at huge cost.

You have made some doozy statements in the past but this takes the biscuit. Only someone working in BAM could say it's the best childrens hospital in Europe. BAM have absolutely raped the taxpayer and continue to do so. 7 years late and still no estimated final cost or opening date!!!??? In what universe is this acceptable?

It's one of the most expensive buildings in the world. So much politics around it too.

National Children's Hospital may not open until 2025, expert warns (breakingnews.ie)

The National Children’s Hospital was “an outlier” globally in terms of cost and was now one of the most expensive buildings in the world, he said.

“Given it's a hospital, which will be a fairly standard process because many hospitals are built around the world, it's very much an outlier in the way that we project managed it and the way that we've actually gone out to tender for it.

“We literally went into the marketplace without a final design and without a final budget in place. So the outlier being that we handed over a design process to a group of people.”

Dr Davis questioned if it was “politically expedient” that there wasn’t a completion date yet, given that there could be a general election next year.

“There's still a further probably 18 months before we actually see the first child admitted at this stage. Had it been within a couple of months, then we probably would have expected the board to have approved it (a completion date). But given that it probably is not within a couple of months of May next year, nobody really wants to announce the date, I suspect, because there's an election due next year.”

Dr Davis said it had been “glib” for the Minister for Health to say that the hospital was 90 per cent complete. “We need more detail on this. I think it's the responsibility of the board to publish a much more comprehensive plan of when they believe it's going to be finished and more importantly, when are we going to see the first children being treated?”

--------------

2017 article...

The proposed €1 billion National Children’s Hospital in Dublin will be the most expensive children’s hospital to be built anywhere in the world, according to international data.

After Adelaide and Dublin, the next most expensive hospitals on the list compiled by architectural data company Emporis are three US hospitals finished in 2012, for between €546 million and €617 million each. Two are in Chicago and the other is a women's hospital in Texas.

The recently built Alder Hey Children's Hospital in Liverpool was designed by the same architects involved at St James's. With 270 beds, it is smaller than the Irish children's hospital but the cost is just £280 million (€330 million). The price actually dropped by almost £60 million due to a downturn in construction at the time. Opened in 2015, it is located in parkland in a suburb of the city.

---------------

It's a national disgrace. We could have 2-3 childrens hospitals built at this point if FFG did it correctly.

Podge_irl

Dr Davis questioned if it was “politically expedient” that there wasn’t a completion date yet, given that there could be a general election next year.

Whatever about anything else, this makes absolutely no sense.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488447#Comment_121488447

It does. Think about it. If they publish a date before the election and miss it (most likely), then its all over the news before a general election. Better not to publish a date at all. Cowardly yes.

He goes on to say...

“There's still a further probably 18 months before we actually see the first child admitted at this stage. Had it been within a couple of months, then we probably would have expected the board to have approved it (a completion date). But given that it probably is not within a couple of months of May next year, nobody really wants to announce the date, I suspect, because there's an election due next year.”

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488576#Comment_121488576

If they just don't have it open before the election they are screwed anyway.

The continued unclarity is hardly doing them any favours. I don't discount his displeasure at the delay, but the political analysis is somewhat lacking.

Mistakes have clearly been made in the whole affair, though I doubt right now that everyone would agree on what they are.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488447#Comment_121488447

It makes a lot of sense.

Why line yourself up for a date you cant hit, or promise a post election completion date that is unfavourable, thus inviting the opposition to hit you over the head with your failure to deliver.

Best to keep quiet and deflect.

SF do it almost daily, especially on immigration.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488639#Comment_121488639

O'Reilly (FG) should be doing prison time for the shenanigans he caused. But this is Ireland. Wrong location, wrong design, poor planning, poor procurement, terrible contract, useless ministers. The overspend is criminal. Imagine what else we could have built if it was built on time and anywhere near budget. Imagine all the extra beds we could have in the system.

Will we have nurses to staff it? They are leaving in their droves due to working conditions and lack of housing.

Some of the FFG voters should actually get a chance to walk the corridors of an A&E that is crowded with trolleys. I have done it several times with family members and it is pretty grim. It's actually distressing to see it. They might not so dismissive then. Not saying you are by the way.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488720#Comment_121488720

I'm not going into the location thing again in depth, but it was not a political recommendation and the way it's carelessly thrown out as an obvious problem just emphasises that people expect easy decisions to be made where they don't exist. Of course, part of the delay is because the original proposal was rejected by ABP, which unfortunately is the risk of a judicial system separate from the legislature.

The overspend has a large inflationary aspect to it, but clearly it has not been a well run programme. Despite frequent assertions to the contrary, Ireland has delivered multiple infrastructure projects under budget such as a number of motorways and the Luas BXD. Cost estimate increases since 2019 really have been unforeseeable so I wouldn't hold those against anyone (e.g. metrolink).

I assume you mean James Reilly? I'm not a fan, but not sure what he had to do with this particular issue.

I hardly think everything has been done perfectly, or even particularly well at times. However when it comes to issues such as housing, I do with people would at least acknowledge that it is not a phenomenon unique to Ireland and our governing parties. This means the problem is clearly more intractable than it is given credit for. Ultimately, very little will dissuade me from my view that the housing issue is one of voters simply not wanting to face the reality of what is required to fix it.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486202#Comment_121486202

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/mum-tried-everything-to-save-child-who-died-from-strep-a-after-being-sent-home-from-aande/a2129249606.html

Children are definitely not the priority for this government.

Another kid dead, seemingly because staff were so overwhelmed they couldn't care for her properly. There was that other girl in Limerick as well. Health service is crumbling and our leaders are too busy blathering on about climate change.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489084#Comment_121489084

Yes, because climate change, ensuing environmental impacts and air pollution have thankfully never caused the death of a single child anywhere.

Mistakes were clearly made in this scenario, but sepsis is an incredibly common cause of child mortality, and mortality in general, globally including across Europe for a reason. It is both hard to treat and easy to misidentify. Ireland's under 5 mortality rate is lower than Germany, France, Switzerland, UK, Denmark, Austria to name a few. This seems like a pretty relevant fact.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488720#Comment_121488720

I don't think anyone is dismissive of the issues in HSE. Not that I have seen anyone.

You are posting about one group of supporters as if they don't care which is nonsense. Fact is looking at the options the government has proposed v the opposition these voters feel the government have a better plan than the opposition.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490246#Comment_121490246

I have seen some very dismissive comments on our healthcare workers and the INMO. I won't say too much because the user is very fond of the Report button.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487959#Comment_121487959

From the article I shared earlier home ownership rates in Ireland have dropped from 79% in 1991 to 66% now. Given that many will own homes for a very long time, or inherit a family home, that's quite a significant drop in my book.

With house prices at 8 times the average wage and 10 in Dublin, it's quite obvious then that home ownership is now quite unaffordable, other than for the highest earners and those with inherited wealth.

This is not because of other parties blocking building. Were planning appeals removed in the morning I don't think there'd be any significant change to housing output. There simply isn't the capacity to build because FFG have shifted delivery entirely, and very lucratively, to a private sector which has no great incentive to increase output.

Only those living in some delusional FFG bubble, or with self-serving motives, could see outrage at the needless death of a young girl in a hospital trolley as 'faux'.

UHL is my local hospital. Every winter I see elderly people afraid to go to hospital with quite treatable conditions for fear they'll be abandoned to die alone on a hospital trolley. That's the reality people here live with and for me personally, I see that if a change doesn't occur soon, that's what I too will be facing in my old age.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489084#Comment_121489084

And all they're doing on climate change is blathering on. (And wasting money)

Our performance in terms of climate change is piss poor.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491550#Comment_121491550

House prices have increased because of the amount of planning rejections in the system. Every time a builder has to resubmit planning etc it drives up the cost of the house.

No idea how you can claim parties blocking houses is not a significant issue. It has been a significant issues for years. Not just parties, in our local village you have community groups. Only a few days you had a lady posting about a 5 storey apartment block they wanted to build outside the village. This was a disgrace and wasn't in with the "image of the town". When it was pointed out to her she had multiple posts on the same group complaining that no house/apartments available in the village for her children she ignored. She was trying to get as many people as possible to object. That's the sort of people who you are dealing with all over Ireland

You complain about high house prices and then sy the private sector have no incentive to build. Plus the number of houses each year are increasing.

Problem is project which should have been built 5 years ago are only getting delivered now because of blocked planning. The cost of those houses have increased during that period.

If you want to talk about "delusional bubble" then I would think you need to look at the opposition who haven't got a single coherent plan and would cripple Ireland in the matter of months.

Have you ever done anything to help UHL? volunteered during the winter months? fund raisers? (I ask but I know I will get some made up answer but it's fun anyway)