FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565520#Comment_121565520

No it wasn't "shot out of the water".

The point of boards is light entertainment. Nobody has to respond to little keyboard warrior if they choose not to.

Dishonest posting 😂

Delusions of grandeur is best description

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121566221#Comment_121566221

So you do respond but only to the posts where you have a chance of being correct or where there is no data to prove a bland statement? Any comment on the progress of the LDA? You made the erroneous point so try to back it up.

Cyclonius

I'm surprised there isn't more backlash so far about the government's genius plan to lower the speed limits of many roads:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/minister-pushes-to-enforce-widespread-cuts-to-road-speed-limits-by-end-of-year/a2080074206.html

As we all know, Irish people are famous for following rules, and definitely wouldn't ignore speed limits when it suits, as they do now. For all the discussion about the unfortunate increase in road deaths last year, at 184, they're quite low by historical standards:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_accidents_deaths_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_year

It's the exact same number of people killed on our roads in 1931, and well under the 415 killed on our roads in 2000, for a more recent comparison. Even going back a decade, there were 190 people killed on our roads in 2013, and our population has increased approximately 13% since then.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567978#Comment_121567978

It's all about enforcement and the government cut the traffic corps numbers in half over the last few years. They think speed vans would replace them but everybody knows where they are. Last year's numbers were bad compared to previous years. For example 2018 had 138 deaths, 2019 had 140 but 2023 spiked to 184. It's rising again. 2021 was 130 but that is probably down to Covid.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567978#Comment_121567978

I honestly don't see the issue, this is the main changes

Under new laws, speed limits will be lowered to 80kmh on national secondary roads, 60kmh on local and rural roads, and 30kmh in town centres and housing estates.

Having a speed limit of 30km in town centres and housing estates makes perfect sense to me. Even the largest local estate have signs all over it saying children at play and asking people to adhere to a 30kmh speed limit.

That's probably why you are not seeing the backlash

It is interesting to see why you think you need to go fast on any of the roads above?

Cyclonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568142#Comment_121568142

The vast majority of roads in this country are not national secondary roads (the N51 to N87), they are regional roads (R100 to R999) and local roads (L1000 to L90000+). The regional roads used to have speed limits of 60mph/96.5kph. A reduction to 60kph is unnecessary in the majority of cases, and will greatly increase travel times for anyone that has to commute to work, or otherwise travel any sort of distance in rural Ireland. While limits can be increased at the discretion of the local county council, given the general competence of said county councils, such a provision doesn't inspire much confidence.

marno21

As Conor Faughnan keeps pointing out on Pat Kenny's show on Newstalk, this is an enforcement issue. The Garda RPU is horrifically under resourced and there is a general feeling of lawlessness on the roads. I was in Ireland for a few weeks recently and the only enforcement I saw was a 3 speed vans on empty stretches of the M6 and M18 in Galway/Clare and one Garda car parked outside Killarney on a 100km/h road in heavy traffic on Slow Down Day.

Trust this Government to bring in new, ill thought out rules instead of trying to enforce the existing ones. All this will achieve is annoying people who generally follow the speed limits and have no effect on road safety. The people who broke the speed limits and killed people before these rule changes are hardly going to start following the new ones.

Cyclonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568036#Comment_121568036

I completely agree re: enforcement. The reduction in Garda resources has had the unfortunate effect of allowing the number of road deaths to creep back up. With the proper number of Gardaí, speeding could be tackled, and road deaths reduced. Decreasing speed limits, without much enforcement, would only serve to annoy the average motorist that follows the rules of the road, and do nothing to tackle the serial speeders, the drink drivers, the phone users, etc., who cause the vast majority of road deaths.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568271#Comment_121568271

This is the road system. People who are commuting will be using national and motorways in the majority.

The issue is a lot of roads should never of had a 60mph speed limit in the first place and a lot of them are still at too high a level.

Also my understanding is if the road is of a high enough standard then it doesn't have to be lower which is what the article says as well.

So to me this is reducing the limit on roads which are not fit for higher speed limits. Also saying that Irish drivers won't adhere to the limits is not an excuse to change them. In reality the monitoring of speed on the roads needs to be outsourced more to private companies and not a job for Gardai

Local authorities will have discretion to revise speed limits upwards where it is safe to do so.

Cyclonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568330#Comment_121568330

People commute to places other than Dublin, Cork and Galway. The vast majority of roads in the country, particularly in rural Ireland, are not national primary or secondary roads.

Having seen the quality of the work carried out by numerous county councils (and government in general), the ability for county councils to redesignate roads to allow for a higher speed limit, does not mean that they will do so adequately.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568358#Comment_121568358

Majority of people commute to central towns etc. Majority will use national roads.

Of course some won't. But if the road is not capable of having people travelling at that speed then it should be reduced

Talking personally I live on a road which is used as a "rat run" by a lot of commuters. The road at the moment is 80km but it should be 60km. The people that live in the area will drive at 60 on it to be safe.

In the morning and in the evening the older people in the estate are more or less trapped in because getting out onto the road is a disaster with people going so fast to/from work. People in the area can't use the road during these times to walk/cycle etc because it's too dangerous.

This change will allow the council to reduce the speed limit on the road and make it safer for every in the area. If it will slow down commuters so they have to leave 10 mins earlier? maybe. But with the number of crashs we have every year, lucky no deaths yet, it's a small price to pay

Cyclonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568657#Comment_121568657

As other posters have discussed above, where crashes are caused by speeding, the individuals responsible don't tend to follow speed limits, hence reducing speed limits further will likely not prove too effective in preventing the individuals already regularly breaking the speed limits from doing what they were already going to do anyway.

lmimmfn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568142#Comment_121568142

Nobody gives a **** about that, the country is a shambles and we should focus on that? I do agree with you that it's an annoyance but in the sceme of things currently it's small fry.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568799#Comment_121568799

Well as posted, more outsourcing to private companies will sort that out

If the majority can stick to limit then we can soon then ban the minority off the roads to make it safer for everyone else

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568799#Comment_121568799

I would go further: there isn’t enough law enforcement officers to police the current speed limits. How is decreasing the speed limits going to bring down the terrible road deaths.

I drive for a living and for me clowns using cellphones while driving are the biggest problem. Also zig zagging on m/ways along with drivers hogging the wrong lanes on m/ways & dual carriageways are not helping either.

But how people drive really is not relevant to the title of the thread - sorry for diversifying

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571991#Comment_121571991

It's always about enforcement.

Number Of Gardaí Policing The Roads Hits A Five-Year Low (extra.ie)

The number of gardaí policing roads has hit a five-year low while incidents of drug and dangerous driving soar, new figures show.

Road traffic collision figures show that the number of road deaths in 2023 increased by 19% compared to 2022.

Minister challenged Drew Harris on reduced traffic enforcement by gardaí amid rise in deaths (thejournal.ie)

Chambers, the junior minister responsible for road safety, noted that Garda detections of mobile phone use by drivers were down 40% as of 15 September compared with the same period in 2019, while the number of motorists stopped for speeding was down 30% and arrests for drink driving were down 14%. 

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572815#Comment_121572815

Whats doubly worrying about those figures is its not just Garda numbers hitting a 5 year low overall. Its even worse per capita, when you account for our rapid population growth over the last 5 years. They're underpaid, overworked, and understaffed - so its no wonder we're having ever increasing crime problems.

Its so frustrating at a time when the state is awash with money. We could help solve so many problems by adding 5k a year to the starting salary for all gardai/nurses/teachers. The starting wage for nurses is still only 33k in Dublin currently like, thats insane.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575114#Comment_121575114

Great points. 100% agree.

Some FG supporters actually blame the nurses for the trolley crisis.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575114#Comment_121575114

It would help but it would also cost 870M€ and that's before it entices other public servants to demand the same.

Not saying it shouldn't be done, but it's a lot easier to throw these suggestions out then it is to implement them.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576462#Comment_121576462

We put €4bn in 2023 into the strategic reserve fund, money we literally had no day to day use for.

Using 20% of that to vastly improve the quality of life for every young teacher/garda/nurse in the country, and by extension improve the lives of everyone else in the country (by helping with the currently hugely problematic staffing/recruitment numbers in those industries), would be a very reasonable use of it to most Irish voters I'd think.

And something most would morally approve of on top - is it right, or in any way justfiable, that a well qualified, hard working, young nurse doing essential work in Dublin earns €33k a year in 2024?

The financials are even less problematic when you consider a very large part of that outlay would come back to the state in taxes - people on 33k p.a. aren't saving money offshore, they're spending it day to day on things like rent, food and transport. The actual cost to the state would likely be close to half the headline figure.

It would actually be extremely easy to implement this tomorrow, if we had a government that wasn't ideologically obsessed with starving public services of funding.

Podge_irl

Having a strategic reserve is incredibly useful and you do not build one because you can't think of anything else to spend the money on. It provides a buffer in (inevitable) future times of economic downturn or uncertainty. It provides ab ability to ebsure key infrasturcture projects dont hit funding issues. As soon as these down times happen you would have untold numbers of people complaining we didn't build a reserve and why can't we be more like norway.

I would certainly support an uprating of salaries in Dublin as a start but you're "it's just so easy" solution would likely end up costing billions a year.

Blut2

Having a better functioning police service, hospital system, and education system now are rather more useful than a strategic reserve that we may or may not need at some point in the future. Theres a reason every poll shows a majority of voters now want more money spent on public services, not tax cuts, or reserve funds.

Arguing a nurse who earns 33k a year in Ireland in 2024 shouldn't get a pay rise takes some level of both problematic morals and bad strategic thinking.

How exactly does your initial figure of 870M€ (which doesn't account for the multipier effect feeding back into government finances) now move to "billions a year"? Do explain your maths, preferably also with how you arrived at the 870mn figure to begin with.

Podge_irl

870M is a pretty easy multiplication of numbers employed by 5k.

The State is unlikely to get away with giving such a pay hike across the board to only these three professions. Everyone else will demand the same. Such a sudden injection of salary increases across the board would have inflationary impacts too.

I think 33k starting salary for a nurse is fine outside dublin. The median salary is "only" 45k after all. The lack of adjustment for dublin based staff is an issue across the board that i think should be addressed.

All that aside. Claiming this move will create a better functioning hospital or education system is not something you are remotely in a position to say. We don't have a shortage of nurses by OECD standards for one.

You are also casually dismissing the benefits of a wealth fund far too quickly. Had we had one in place 15 years ago maybe metro would be built by now. Maybe having one now means if a downturn happens we can still build a new maternity hospital.

These are complicated calculations and decisions.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577482#Comment_121577482

A multiplication of which numbers exactly?

33k starting salary for a nurse (or a gard) anywhere in the country is not fine, as evidenced by the huge recruitment/retention problems we have at the moment. And as evidenced by the sky high cost of living in any city in the country. Could you live on 33k a per year renting in Cork, or Galway? While doing a very high stress, difficult, essential job?

Given staffing is one of the top issues for our health, police, and education systems I am absolutely in a position to say that increasing the numbers employed in all of these, and increasing the morale of those already employed, would help the functioning of those systems. Anyone involved in helathcare, or has personally experienced it, says we have a shortage of staff currently.

We had a wealth fund in place 15 years ago (our national pension reserve fund at the time) and it was instantly consumed, all it achieved was reducing our debt taken on very slightly. It made no real tangible difference. The same thing would happen again in any future economic catastrophe. That aside, refusing to spend a few hundred million euro on something that would instantly improve the lives of every citizen of this country, at a time when we're banking billions per year and not spending it, is insane.

Its like putting money into a savings account just in case your house explodes when you already have leaks in your roof and a broken window. When you have excess money AND severe issues already you need to solve the current issues, not wait for some theoretical event that may never occur.

WishUWereHere

Latest opinion poll:

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0106/1425126-opinion-poll/

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581303#Comment_121581303

SF back up 2%.

I wonder what percentage of the adult population are eligible to vote in a GE, given the foreign national cohort in Ireland.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581349#Comment_121581349

Irish politics is in a terrible state imho. Obviously immigration is becoming a factor for all political parties. Yes the Independents have a 3% surge but at some stage they too will have to face how they will handle the influx.

Im mystified as to how SF rose 2%. What a mess Labour are, with all the uncertainty and they still lose a %.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581879#Comment_121581879

I am so so glad that the FF+FG coalition has gone full term. It has guaranteed that the public perceive the 2 parties as the same. We will never have to listen to civil war guff again. The next election will be fascinating.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581879#Comment_121581879

Im mystified as to how SF rose 2%.

Wouldn't dwell too much on moves within the MOE...

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581907#Comment_121581907

It will all come back the day they're not in coalition anymore. Parties change and update their identities and policies all the time, they typically remain due to brand awareness (it's why a new party can find it so hard and existing parties change so much from their founding principes, in a FPTP system this is even more magnified).