FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

timmyntc

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

These are been bought and rented to the council who then houses people.

If they didn't those people would probably be "homeless"

And we would have opposition parties crying about all the homeless people.

Its still a bad deal for all involved. The council end up with no asset after the lease, its dead money. Compared to council builds the difference is obvious.
Rents across the market go up.
House prices across the market go up.

The only winners here are investment funds.

Jinglejangle69

timmyntc wrote: »

Its still a bad deal for all involved. The council end up with no asset after the lease, its dead money. Compared to council builds the difference is obvious.
Rents across the market go up.
House prices across the market go up.

The only winners here are investment funds.

And the people who get housed in them for 50 euro a week.

The councils don't have the resources to build social houses en masse anymore.

So to satisfy all the loud shouting political parties and people running to the papers as they didn't get a 4 bedroom house for their 6 kids the government had to do something.

And now we see it.

timmyntc

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And the people who get housed in them for 50 euro a week.

The councils don't have the resources to build social houses en masse anymore.

So to satisfy all the loud shouting political parties and people running to the papers as they didn't get a 4 bedroom house for their 6 kids the government had to do something.

And now we see it.

The councils have the finance - and that is all they need. Councils do not direct build anymore, they do it via tender. They just need the money (which they have, via credit)

But instead they opt to agree long term leases because this way you can keep most of the cost of that lease off the books, and instead count it yearly. But at the end of the day after 20-25 years you've paid the guts of the price for a house, but have no asset. It looks good short term, but its disastrous long term planning.

Jinglejangle69

timmyntc wrote: »

The councils have the finance - and that is all they need. Councils do not direct build anymore, they do it via tender. They just need the money (which they have, via credit)

But instead they opt to agree long term leases because this way you can keep most of the cost of that lease off the books, and instead count it yearly. But at the end of the day after 20-25 years you've paid the guts of the price for a house, but have no asset. It looks good short term, but its disastrous long term planning.

But then we have political parties ranting how expensive it is to using this way.

I agree its terrible planning.

But the government were under pressure to appease the left parties and media relentlessly at them to solve the homeless crisis over the last few years.

They were weak and caved in, and now its a mess.

katiek102010

My local FF TD has posted videos online of him tearing strips off Michael Martin over the vulture funds buying up the estates in maynooth and Dublin.

He has also shared another post by an organisation who critisied government policy.

From what I m seeing online that is a lot of infighting especially in FF at the moment.

Do you think the government will last till the end of the term or will we have another GE within the next few months?

Shebean

FF will have to be dragged out feet first. The Greens are keeping the head down. Both parties last hurrah for at least a while. FG will only call it a day if they think they'll walk the next election, so no election coming.

katiek102010

Shebean wrote: »

FF will have to be dragged out feet first. The Greens are keeping the head down. Both parties last hurrah for at least a while. FG will only call it a day if they think they'll walk the next election, so no election coming.

I was thinking that FF will hold on till its swop time, and then mulybe they will pull. It will be promise nd promise and openly challenge FG legacy policies eg the housing for the next few months

jmreire

Given the general level of dissatisfaction amongst voters, I'd say that no party will want an election anytime soon. So its safe enough to critise each other, even in public, or at least to be seen to be critising . But I'm sure that the boundarys all nicely regulated. You would not need an elephants trunk to sniff which way the dissafaction wind is blowing...
But as they say, a week can be a long time in Politics, and the unexpected can always happen.

PuddingBreath

FF have killed themselves by keeping FG in power now for so long. If they had at least got the minister of finance position then there might have been a bit of real change, but no. it's now what, 12 years since 2009 and we're back to square one with housing. nothing has changed, actually, i lie, it's gotten worse. our family just about scraped together money to buy a couple of years back, must be pure hell now for people. a roof over your head seems too much to ask these day seemingly !?
the health system is a disaster, was a disaster, needs complete overhaul and reforming, but nothing much changes. hearing more and more horror stories about our local hospital(not portlaoise or one that was high profile in the news in recent years), now they have the ould coofid19 to blame for all our woes. personally i would just completly privatise healthcare and use mandatory insurance/vouchers systems for poor people or elderly. if one hospital can't do the work then go somewhere else, real competition and consequences for not doing a good job.
unfortuantly, Sinn Fein would go the opposite way to how i believe things should go, it wasn't always the way i thought, but spending more and more on a civil service/health system that doesn't seem capable of reform, accountability and actually performing is not sensible.
it's my long winded way of saying that if FF had any interest in real change they would have done a deal with SF, half their own party knows that, but now neutrals like me are completly done with them. Pascal donohue was quick to borrow 6 billion for covid relief, but feic the homeless.
i'm ranting, to answer your question, it has to last because Eamon Ryan and micheal Martin have destroyed themselves, their parties will not recover by the next election for what they have done so they have no choice to stick in now and get their pensions and then head off into the sunset.

skimpydoo

katiek102010 wrote: »

My local FF TD has posted videos online of him tearing strips off Michael Martin over the vulture funds buying up the estates in maynooth and Dublin.

He has also shared another post by an organisation who critisied government policy.

Time for the bleeding obvious question. Who is your TD?

meeeeh

Probably Marc McSharry who is one of the biggest morons in Irish Politics. FF would be losers no matter who they get in government with (mostly because they are a bit outdated and have pretty poor tds) but at least they didn't go into power with SF.

Personally I hope the government will hold because the alternative is a bit more left version of Trump.

Pauliedragon

I know I'm stating the obvious but if there was an election tomorrow Mary Lou would be Taoiseach.

meeeeh

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I know I'm stating the obvious but if there was an election tomorrow Mary Lou would be Taoiseach.

Well then it's great there is not an election tomorrow.

Zaney

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I know I'm stating the obvious but if there was an election tomorrow Mary Lou would be Taoiseach.

If there was an election tomorrow I think we’d be facing months and months of no Government at all.

But I agree with your sentiment, FF and FG would not expect to do well, so neither party will want an election.

Mongfinder General

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I know I'm stating the obvious but if there was an election tomorrow Mary Lou would be Taoiseach.

She’ll never be Taoiseach except in name only. That position will be shared by a close knit coterie sitting up on the Falls Road.

Donald Trump

Trump for Taoiseach.

Déan Éire iontach arís

katiek102010

skimpydoo wrote: »

Time for the bleeding obvious question. Who is your TD?

Willie ODea

Pauliedragon

meeeeh wrote: »

Well then it's great there is not an election tomorrow.

I absolutely agree I just feel it's inevitable at this stage.

skimpydoo

katiek102010 wrote: »

Willie ODea

Thanks.

Donald Trump

katiek102010 wrote: »

Willie ODea

Is he the minister for gee?

RandomViewer

I'm thinking sometime next year,there's only so long that they can drag out Covid and the payback for 18months of PUP and wage subsidy,

Tyrone212

Donald Trump wrote: »

Trump for Taoiseach.

Déan Éire iontach arís

Can't see an orange man getting elected.

Donald Trump

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Can't see an orange man getting elected.

But the man from Del Monte says yes!

Cluedo Monopoly

FF took the following ministries during a pandemic: Health, Housing, Education, Agriculture (3 times) and Public Expenditure/Reform.

What were they thinking? No winners there. All so that MMartin would become Taoiseach.

I don't see an election until 2022. All 3 coalition parties will lose seats. The civil war power swap will be over.

RandomViewer

The cuckoo fund crap this week made many think of 2007, like we were back there and learned nothing,

Beasty

Threads merged

katiek102010

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

FF took the following ministries during a pandemic: Health, Housing, Education, Agriculture (3 times) and Public Expenditure/Reform.

What were they thinking? No winners there. All so that MMartin would become Taoiseach.

I don't see an election until 2022. All 3 coalition parties will lose seats. The civil war power swap will be over.

I'm convinced Feb 22, they will wait till worst of pandemic is over, however I think MM will be gone before then

skimpydoo

katiek102010 wrote: »

I'm convinced Feb 22, they will wait till worst of pandemic is over, however I think MM will be gone before then

Leo will be gone too.

katiek102010

katiek102010 wrote: »

I'm convinced Feb 22, they will wait till worst of pandemic is over, however I think MM will be gone before then

The long knives have been out for Martin since before he became Taoiseach. Which is a shame, as he's a genuinely decent politician, and a true Republican. FF won't see his like again.

RandomViewer

skimpydoo wrote: »

Leo will be gone too.

Don't think Varadkar will come back after Dail Summer recess for some vague reason

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The long knives have been out for Martin since before he became Taoiseach. Which is a shame, as he's a genuinely decent politician, and a true Republican. FF won't see his like again.

Journeyman who jumped ship at the right time, won't be remembered well or long,

_Kaiser_

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

FF took the following ministries during a pandemic: Health, Housing, Education, Agriculture (3 times) and Public Expenditure/Reform.

What were they thinking? No winners there. All so that MMartin would become Taoiseach.

It was exactly that. Martin didn't want to be the only FF leader not to be Taoiseach so hence we've ended up with the mess we have now (more on that in a min though). Enda Kenny did the same of course so he could be the only FG Taoiseach to "win" a second term - hence we ended up with the likes of Ross, Zappone and an even weaker cabinet under Leo.

I don't see an election until 2022. All 3 coalition parties will lose seats. The civil war power swap will be over.

As I said in a different thread this morning, "confidence and supply" was an amazing thing for the FF/FG negotiators and built upon by the current coalition arrangement.
Now they can legitimately swap seats every few years (with whatever mud guards to make up the numbers) and retain governance indefinitely.

SF in power would be worse than anything we've seen yet and I think most people (that actually vote) realise this. I'm sure the "gimmie" types would be all for it, but those who actually pay for everything not so much.

titan18

I mean us pay for everything middle class people do that and get nothing back from the government as it is and see others get a lot instead so voting in SF isn't really going to change that. At least I expect them to so that if I voted for them, unlike voting for FG or FF who sell out their voters as soon as they're in then

RandomViewer

titan18 wrote: »

I mean us pay for everything middle class people do that and get nothing back from the government as it is and see others get a lot instead so voting in SF isn't really going to change that. At least I expect them to so that if I voted for them, unlike voting for FG or FF who sell out their voters as soon as they're in then

The sellout to the cuckoo funds is typical FF/FG, roll over like a wee dog for a belly rub once they smell money, am I the only one who thought Deja vu when the heard the news this week

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/property-funds-outbid-housing-bodies-by-up-to-eur80k-per-home-cae507dc

Property funds outbid housing bodies by ‘up to €80k per home’.
More than 400 units snapped up by institutional funds in the past 4 weeks

How did FFG completely ignore this when publishing the new houseing plan/bill??
It's hard to fathom the incompetence or thinking...

Fann Linn

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/property-funds-outbid-housing-bodies-by-up-to-eur80k-per-home-cae507dc



How did FFG completely ignore this when publishing the new houseing plan/bill.
It's hard to fathom the incompetence or thinking...

'Quite easily' by the looks of things.

RandomViewer

FFer on the week in politics today, every question answered with SF this,SF that, if he's their best of the best the worst must be pretty terrible

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/property-funds-outbid-housing-bodies-by-up-to-eur80k-per-home-cae507dc



How did FFG completely ignore this when publishing the new houseing plan/bill??
It's hard to fathom the incompetence or thinking...

It can be dealt with in committee stage though

votecounts

As Covid passes, the original issues of the 2020 election are coming back into peoples mind which are Housing and Health, both a joke. FF and FG have allowed these cuckoo/vulture funds to exist and outbid FTBs with their Tax advantages. I'm lucky to have my own house, but I know plenty of people with good permanent jobs whose housing options are quite limited, just look at the prices.
Back to Micheal Martin, I never thought we'd have any politician who was so closely linked with the crash as Taoiseach. I can fully understand why people will look at other options when there is an election.

Cluedo Monopoly

Marine Layer wrote: »

It can be dealt with in committee stage though

Oh right.

Because of the public uproar or because it was a good idea back in 2018??

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Oh right.

Because of the public uproar or because it was a good idea back in 2018??

Because of the unacceptable turn of events

Cluedo Monopoly

Marine Layer wrote: »

Because of the unacceptable turn of events

Loafing Oaf

votecounts wrote: »

Back to Micheal Martin, I never thought we'd have any politician who was so closely linked with the crash as Taoiseach. I can fully understand why people will look at other options when there is an election.

Be surprised if Martin is leading FF into the next election.

Cluedo Monopoly

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Be surprised if Martin is leading FF into the next election.

2 Hopes....Bob and none. Jim will have the reins.

Loafing Oaf

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Jim will have the reins.

I don't think that's a done deal, and the results of the DBS by-election could play into that in a big way. If the FF candidate absolutely tanks, that would cast serious doubt over JOC's capacity to hold his own seat and hence IMO over his leadership credentials.

blanch152

katiek102010 wrote: »

I was thinking that FF will hold on till its swop time, and then mulybe they will pull. It will be promise nd promise and openly challenge FG legacy policies eg the housing for the next few months

The problem for FF if they do that is that they can then be painted as a coalition partner who can't be trusted.

blanch152

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't think that's a done deal, and the results of the DBS by-election could play into that in a big way. If the FF candidate absolutely tanks, that would cast serious doubt over JOC's capacity to hold his own seat and hence IMO over his leadership credentials.

Martin may well have cleverly set him up.

skimpydoo

RandomViewer wrote: »

FFer on the week in politics today, every question answered with SF this,SF that, if he's their best of the best the worst must be pretty terrible

Actually its Martin Heydon a junior FG minister.

RandomViewer

skimpydoo wrote: »

Actually its Martin Heydon a junior FG minister.

Orwellian mistake,

Cluedo Monopoly

Government getting a rough ride on Claire Byrne now. The housing problem is causing so much anger.