FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435145#Comment_118435145

Transmission in the community is higher than transmission in schools. So if you won't let your kid go to school then presumably you won't let them partake in anything.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435243#Comment_118435243

Would this have anything to do with the fact schools were closed until yesterday?

How is this data obtained,since the contact tracing in schools was shutdown,presumably to coverup outbreaks?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435272#Comment_118435272

No. It is based on numerous studies, none admittedly in Ireland. There is no reason to assume we're somehow special and the same does not apply in Ireland however.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435316#Comment_118435316

We do however have among the highest class numbers in europe,and in many cases rammed into outdated stuffy old school buildings

(in next 15 to 20 years,the state requires a massive spend on social and building projects to allow for it population increases and prepare for bext 70 or so years,we are trying to run a near 6 million population on infrastructure designed for 3.5 million,hence the diaster we have had with covid)

The case studies are not without merit,but is the data applicible here given how poor our infrastructure is and how over crowded we have let our schools become

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435243#Comment_118435243

You'd have to ask her.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435393#Comment_118435393

American schools are not exactly beacons of excellence in this regard - both in terms of infrastructure and case loads.

We haven't had a disaster with covid by any reasonable comparative metric. We come out middling to good on any pan-European scale. There is obviously room for improvement there and you could make an argument that things have been unacceptably bad all across Europe but this is not a uniquely Irish situation.

CarProblem

Is the government simply a bigger bunch of idiots than even I thought or are they deliberately trying to mess up mitigation in schools (they've already put the onus on schools to supply filters so they can shift the blame if anything goes wrong)

https://twitter.com/simonmlewis/status/1479490897276456963

@Podge_irl the shit show that has been the governments mitigation attempts in schools (I refuse to call it a plan, and you'd be forgiven in thinking they're deliberately trying to fail) is IMO " unacceptably bad" (among other things)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435431#Comment_118435431

Ameria is a jokeshop of a country and ita handling has left million or more dead.....noone in their right mind looks.to them for advice,particularly on covid

We have the highest covid rates on the world,for 2nd year in a row,post xmas....we have thousands dead,most of em entirely perventable

,you.could make.the arguement most of western world has failed utterly on its handling of this pandemic,some of 3rd world countries have utterly wiped floor with western europe as regards mitigation and protecting their population

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435813#Comment_118435813

I'm not looking to them for advice. I'm saying that studies done there (as well as Canada and some other countries) show lower transmission in school.

A) we don't have the highest rates in the world and B) we have also spent significant portions of time with the lowest rate in Europe. We are also significantly below the European average for total deaths.

The "3rd world" has almost definitely not done a better job, they are simply not in a position to test as much. Excess death rates are quite high there.

There is a weird desire to think that Ireland is perversely bad at things which just isn't backed up by figures. Some kind of reverse exceptionalism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435882#Comment_118435882

Only a handful of tiny island nations/micro states are above us on covid rates,unless things have changed in last 5 hours

https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/ireland-has-seventh-highest-covid-rate-in-world-beaten-by-just-six-small-nations-1239013.html

Hmm vietnam with 33k deaths out of population of circa 100 million,would seriously undermine your defence here....kenya with 5k deaths out of 54 million begs to differ

Ireland is headed for 10K deaths (admitely including the 6 counties),but western world hasnt kept its population safe,we even when covid at its most deadly,had politians/media winding people up with 'live with the virus' rethoric.....our media and its repeated pushes for reopening have been a disgrace...the government bowing to pressure.from em,makes me.wonder who actually runs the country.....

we.must be only country in world effecrively covering up deaths,by no longer publishing daily deaths

Podge_irl

we.must be only country in world effecrively covering up deaths,by no longer publishing daily deaths

It is worrying if you believe that.

I would suggest looking at the Economist's rather excellent work tracking excess deaths which gives a much better picture of what is actually going on

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

Nobody knows their actual Covid rates because testing is not high enough anywhere. It doesn't really matter though - again Ireland has also had periods where it was in the bottom 3 of case rates in Europe. This is the nature of how the disease works. As to the Western world, I'm rather happy they are not welding people into their homes and forcing residents to resort to bartering among themselves to not starve as is currently going on in China.

I'm not interested in getting into a big argument over Covid anyway, there is a whole other forum for that. Ireland is not an outlier in Europe by any means, it is on the average to good side for overall metrics. This is a good thing to remember. Schooling is incredibly important for children (would have thought this was a commonly held belief) and covid is not a serious concern for children. There are other circulating respiratory illnesses such RSV which are much, much worse. The focus on schools as particular hotspots is bizarre and flies in the face of all studies.

CarProblem

"Schooling is incredibly important for children (would have thought this was a commonly held belief)"

I think >99.9% of people agree with this

"Covid is not a serious concern for children."

2 things here:

1) we are causing huge numbers of unnecessary & avoidable infections in children. As thing stand we do not know if long Covid will be an issue for children. Even if serious illness and death rates are exceedingly low a small percentage of a large number is still problematic to me. I certainly don't want it happening to my children because we have an incompetent government more interested in arse covering than their safety

2) these infected children are most definitely causing further infections in the community, some of these infected people will be more vulnerable

You can never make any environment 100% safe but for what is relatively speaking a drop in the ocean compared to the countless billions the government has thrown at Covid can someone please tell me why the government is so reluctant to even try improve ventilation in schools? Before Xmas in the same week they announced a gimmick around electricity bills costing €200m they were trying to scaremonger over HEPA filters in every classroom costing €90m (and even that relatively low figure was rubbished by many)

There's already reports of school children being sent home today as classroom temperatures were too low

Like so much in this pandemic, all predicted by actual experts, all somewhat avoidable and all ignored by the hapless goons in government

"I'm not interested in getting into a big argument over Covid anyway"

On a government thread where posters are discussing the governments response to Covid?

atticu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118434607#Comment_118434607

So, your discussion technique is first to ask loaded questions like: ‘What exactly is your problem?’, then you make accusing statements like: ‘Sorry you had such a tough time with this.’.

In my opinion, these loaded questions and accusing statements are designed to shut down debate and discussion.

I think you are trying to make posters who do not agree with your opinion look bad, in the hope that you look good. I think that if you need to do this, and you are trying to do this, then your opinion and view point are flawed, because you can’t discuss them in an open and honest way.

And why are you answering questions directed at another poster, is there something more going on there that the mods might need to look into?

Podge_irl

we are causing huge numbers of unnecessary & avoidable infections in children.

1) I simply can't agree on this point. I don't think they are avoidable. Delayable maybe. I don't want any child getting ill either, but RSV has been putting kids in hospital for years and there has never been a push to close schools because of it. Also we are not "causing" them, they are just happening - an absolutely shitload of kids will have gotten Covid over the Christmas holidays which has nothing to do with schooling for one.

2) Transmission in schools is less than the community. This would seem to suggest that while kids will undoubtedly be the source of further infection it will be less than other activities. It also suggests that unless kids are being locked up in their homes, then they will be at equal or greater risk anyway

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-schools-not-fuelling-virus-despite-omicron-concerns-data-shows-1.4768789

Here is a covid expert suggesting they open schools, which is what the "hapless goons" in government are doing.

On a government thread where posters are discussing the governments response to Covid?

I'm not that interested in getting into the specifics of covid no. What irritates me is discussions around the govt which pretend as if Ireland is an outlier when it isn't.

CarProblem

"Here is a covid expert suggesting they open schools, which is what the "hapless goons" in government are doing."

We all want schools open . I've heard very few people adopt a "close the schools" mantra (that includes some of the harshest critics of the government I've heard). But open in the safest way possible with best mitigation techniques possible (yet again - you can't eliminate transmission 100%). That was obvious from my post I'd have imagined and I've said the same on here before. I've previously linked (from August/September time) to immunologists, scientists etc calling for schools to open and stay open but with actual safeguards in place (mask wearing, air filtration systems, contact tracing, antigen testing etc).

Again why did the government refuse for so long to implement the kind of mitigation experts had called for and some other countries put in place a long time ago? Why is the effort now so half arsed?

skimpydoo

The Government are aiming for herd immunity which won't work. They are also using school kids as guinea pigs. They should be at home until school class rooms are a safe environment. School class rooms are now below the minimum temperature the HSE recommends for the work place. The Government just don't want to admit we were wrong and we fucckked up.

Ten of Swords

Mod - If you want to talk about covid in greater detail can you please do so in the Covid forum, thanks

Bubbaclaus

More positive news on the state of the economy. People out spending the covid savings.

RTE news : Annual retail sales rise by 16% in November

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0107/1272359-cso-retail-sales/

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439361#Comment_118439361

'twas the month before Christmas....'

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118436497#Comment_118436497

A lady tweeted about her nephew getting sick twice and having concerns about sending him back for a third dose. Her concern was dismissed out of hand with, "do you want schools to close till March?". The discussion was how concerns were valid and it wasn't so black and white.

It was a general discussion on closures.

It was said it was 100% preventable. You tried to be cute and ask about this cure for covid likely not knowing or ignoring the context of the discussion.

Its a discussion forum no need for a second Kristallnacht. If you don't want people responding maybe try PM?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439925#Comment_118439925

Fwiw luke o neil and pzier have developed the closest thing to a cure,a anti-viral drug,which will turn tide on it permently

Its to be made in cork too

Meanwhile a country with highest and among best educated populace in europe is expected to put up with goverence like this:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/education-minister-suggests-opening-windows-at-lower-level-if-classrooms-are-cold-1239506.html

i mean this more than anything,whether its shinners or anyone else,we deserve so much better of a government,than this farce

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440108#Comment_118440108

She's a great example of how backward her party can be. I believe they have air conditioners with filters these days.

As regards McEntee being 'modern Ireland' because she's a working mother. We've had working mothers since getting stone age. How out of touch do you have to be to think its a novelty of modern Ireland. Working class mothers have been in the workplace for generations. Might be new to their clique.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440404#Comment_118440404

I would be v.interested to see the correspondance between mike ryan of WHO,and norma foleys dept

She is (like rest of this government) notrious for flogging outright lies to the public,something deosnt add up on what she claiming here

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440501#Comment_118440501

Time for an FOI to call her bluff.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441011#Comment_118441011

What deos it matter,they lie and lie all the time and nothing ever changes anyway when caught

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441022#Comment_118441022

Lessons learned :)

CarProblem

Not a huge change in the latest opinion polls but I found this interesting

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1480102924718157825

FG the big loser IMO as the current setup is FG's only way back into government whereas (people may disagree) when the time comes I've no doubt FF will go in with SF. I listened to an interview with Jim O'Callaghan not so long ago where he mentioned this possibility. Obviously he's only one voice and is in no way even guaranteed to keep his seat let alone win a leadership contest

atticu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439925#Comment_118439925

OK, I am starting to see a pattern of you insulting people, and asking loaded questions to avoid having to answer the questions asked. Now you are saying that I am trying to be cute, and that I should not post on a discussion forum.

Last I checked, insulting posters was against Boards.ie rules.

Anyway, let look into this discussion a bit more.

First part was introducing twitter into the discussion, not the best move (I think that twitter discussions should be held on twitter, and boards.ie discussions held on boards.ie, but it seems that others feel differently, and keep dragging twitter into discussions here), but it seems to me that it was done to promote an agenda - insult the current government. One thing that I would like to know from the poster who quoted this twitter, did they reply to this woman on twitter?

That was met with a question, which you say was: "do you want schools to close till March?', when in fact, it was a very reasonable question, and was: "So you are in favor of closing schools again for the foreseeable future?". Now, it seems that you intended to miss represent that posted, as you could have typed out the question that was asked, and not one that you think was asked. I would also like to know that answer to the question asked. If you want to criticise what someone is doing, you need to be able to provide an alternative - no alternative was provided, which meant that questions were going to be asked.

You then replied with a loaded question: "You want her nephew to die?". Where did anyone say or claim this? You wanted it to seem like the poster who had asked a legitimate question wanted someone to die. Now, I think that is very strange. But, It seems that that is how you discuss things.

Then the poster who posted up the tweet, posted: "Certainly not in favour of a performing a social experiment in letting kids get sick for sake of the 'economy'", which does not answer the question asked, but instead tries to like something, the economy, with children going back to school. Now, this I find very interesting, because they are trying to link two things together that don't go together, and it did not work out for them, unless you can tell me more about this 'social experiment', and how it is liked to 'the economy'.

That poster then went on to post: "With 2 lads in work hospitilized over xmas,this omicron isnt the walk in park people are burying head in sand pretending it is". Now, we don't know why these two people were in hospital, they could have been involved in a workplace accident for all I know, but somehow the poster is trying to link these two people (and we have no more information about these two people, o newspaper reports, noting) to the omicron variant of Covid-19. Next we are told that people are buying their heads in the sand - again, an unsubstantiated claim - are we just supposed to believe these claims, and not challenge them? It certainly seems to me that that is what you want.

Next that poster went on to post: "the government with its near zero migigation and intentions to simply ignore the science and slash isolation period is going to result in yet more deaths", now I am not really sure what the claim here is, and I am not bothered as it seems to be another unsubstantiated claim.

Then we have this: "fairly sick of people dying over something,that is 100% preventable", now I want to know what is 100% preventable, is it Covid-19? If it is, I want to know how it is 100% preventable.

I have not received an answer to my questions yet, instead I have been asked a lot of loaded questions that don't have anything to do with the discussion, and have been accused of being stupid and cute.

Then you came up with this: "Its a discussion forum no need for a second Kristallnacht. If you don't want people responding maybe try PM?", which is a contradiction. You are telling me that if I don't want people to respond that I should try PM, but you are the one who is not happy with people responding, and asking questions.

Now, I will repeat the two question, and if you or Blaaz would like to answer them, that would be nice. If you don't want to answer them, that is fine, and then I will know that the claim that was made is rubbish.

What is 100% preventable, and how is it 100% preventable?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443925#Comment_118443925

You made a silly jokey comment and I called you out in it. Now you're having a rant about it.

I suggest you report anything you deem a personal slight.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443780#Comment_118443780

Would love to know who on earth the 3% supporting a FG-SF coalition are.

I suspect the last few post-election coalition discussions will look like child's play compared to what's coming up.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443780#Comment_118443780

Luckily they threw Greens in there, as I don't think FFG can be a considered a coalition anymore.. 😜

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118444600#Comment_118444600

3% just want to watch the world burn🤣🤣

Ireland the big winner from the pandemic:

https://www.statista.com/chart/26540/gdp-change-in-selected-oecd-countries-between-q4-2019-and-q3-2021/

Brucie Bonus

I'm confident the powers that be will take this covid time to reassess the way we do business.....jk.

Back to heads in the trough asap, those that had to come up for air anyway.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443780#Comment_118443780

The big unknown is how few seats FF will actually have, I guess 10-20 ,Grassroots will never forgive them for going in with FG and allowing Eamon Ryan near anything,

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447022#Comment_118447022

Didn't the FF grassroots as well as the FG grassroots approve the coalition with each party so they can't see how they cant forgive them when they approved it.

atticu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118444178#Comment_118444178

Just as well that we can go back and read the thread and see that it was actually Blaaz who posted unsubstantiated claims, and that it was myself and another poster who called them on it. You then decided to try and defend the indefensible, and failed miserably.

Now, I have had enough of you trying to shut down discussion on a discussion site, so, up the yard with you.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448792#Comment_118448792

Yes. Getting covid in school is 100% preventable. You asked him did he have a cure for covid. Gas.

Beasty

blanch152 threadban lifted

Pussyhands

I can't wait for the next GE. I can't wait to not vote for the greens again. They're the biggest enemy for me.

Anything negative that affects me has their input all over it. Whether it's local or national issues.

I see in the news they've started on about methane a lot now...is that the new boogeyman? Remember it was diesel cars and then it was aerosols and then carbon.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453964#Comment_118453964

They are a spent force. Other parties will adopt green policies and that added to the green party reputation will see them off.

orecir

Leo is going into pure PR populist spin mode today.

The polls must have him rattled.

blanch152

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0111/1272921-record-job-creation-by-enterprise-ireland-firms-in-2021/

More good economic news.

"The number of staff employed by Enterprise Ireland (EI) supported companies rose by 11,911 last year, despite the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.

It is the highest jobs gain ever recorded by clients of the State agency in a single year."

That is an astounding achievement in the midst of the pandemic. The Government must be doing something right.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456929#Comment_118456929

High time too.

Brucie Bonus

Ah this is nice....

https://easypm.ie/2022/01/how-property-investors-are-set-to-save-more-than-e500m-in-tax-the-irish-times/

Property investors look set to save more than €500 million in tax thanks to an incentive introduced during the dark days of the financial crisis.

The capital gains tax (CGT) exemption, introduced back in 2011 to stimulate a then-struggling property market, allowed investors buying commercial or residential property to avoid taxes on any gains they made on the property, provided that they held the property for seven years (later reduced to four).

Explains why so many sat on properties.

So during a worsening housing crises they left this 2011 nice little earner lie.

Sure 'lessons learned' ...if enough kick up about it and force the government to address it.

#notanormalparty (s)

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-food-and-drink-exports-reach-record-135bn-in-2021-41231779.html

More positive economic news. Not only are food, drink and horticulature exports on the rise, but the dependency on the UK market is decreasing. 37% of exports in 2016 down to around 30% now, but with the total exports increasing, this is only good news.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456929#Comment_118456929

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462767#Comment_118462767

Aren't both of those likely a result of Covid and Brexit?

Enterprise Ireland must have had it's hands full with converted horsebox's alone, nevermind all of the other ideas people came up with to counteract being stuck at home and bored, and possibly penniless.

Irish food and drink exports are probably down to Brexit and Ireland mahybe getting a portion of their market in the EU.

Admittedly I haven't read either of them yet, as I only noticed them now, but that would be my initial thought on both.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463630#Comment_118463630

Actually, they are the opposite of what you would have expected from Covid and Brexit.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462351#Comment_118462351

How slowly the wheels turn....

Home ownership among adults of prime working age has "collapsed" since the financial crisis, according to a report from the Parliamentary Budget Office.

Using an international housing affordability survey, the Parliamentary Budget Office concludes the cost of housing here is "severely unaffordable".

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0113/1273467-parliamentary-budget-office-on-housing/

Well with the investors getting a tax windfall, sure stay the course lads.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462767#Comment_118462767

That's Covid, working from home hit the food to go market which is a huge part of exports