FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843073#Comment_118843073

You keep forgetting the last election was a revolt election. So a lot of TD's got in just by the fact they didn't run under FF or FG with people just ticking names. Difference is the Greens stood up when it counted and a lot of people are aware of that.

Will next election be a revolt vote? it doesn't seem that will happen so I wouldn't be banking on anything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843887#Comment_118843887

That is lunacy thinking,labeling it a revolt election,when almost every poll since was continued the trend shown in.that election has been continued

Ffg are down 8% since,what are you basing your view on,other than some really dated cliches,which dont stand upto scrutiny

FG members breaking ranks and speaking sense

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40838120.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843822#Comment_118843822

Let them be?

They arent facing a collaspe,i think over 28/29 is too big for any party tbh

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843925#Comment_118843925

No the polls haven't FG was kicking the ass of everyone for months. Then it swapped because people got pi**ed off with the virus.

We also had FF was dead in the water and they slowly have gained back.

Nice little graph here. The last election was a revolt vote and everyone know it. Poll are a subsection of the population and in reality based on anyone I have known in my life every getting asked it seems they have a little section they go around every time.

Again linking the same article which has no TD's names. Get an article with an actual TD

https://www.redcresearch.ie/sf-dominate-while-ff-voters-return-to-the-fold/

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843512#Comment_118843512

If they went out and done it the press would be all over it already.

Strange you have such an issue with Leo suggesting it but no problem with a party doing implementing the plan and doing it across all media.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843997#Comment_118843997

Political naivety at it's best, what TD is going to say they are looking at ways of knifing the leader in the back?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843997#Comment_118843997

Would yous not be concerned as labeling it a revolt election,while no evidence exists to say ffg have won back votes,could reasonably described as a cliche?

Going 43% to 35% is a poor indicator of the position where you label it as a revolt vote,like fair play and all,but i dont think it tallies with reality

Given the way fg silence internal dissent (throwing away a by-election to quieten kate oconnel),your unlikely to see anyone name put to it....but the phrasing etc,would indicate a reasonablely prominent southern based backbench TD,with a large media presence

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844042#Comment_118844042

As I said at the start, the constant posts about the demise of every party is the same. Yet we don't see them going do we?

I doubt you have any understanding about how FG works or what is going on. If the issue was so big a TD would have no issue putting their name to it, plus would they really be talking to the Examiner? not when every FG TD will have a link into every journalist in Ireland, yet the only one to get a "comment" was the Examiner. Cop on to yourself.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844055#Comment_118844055

Nobody is posting about the 'demise' of any party.

My prediction when FG were getting a bounce from handling the pandemic was that Leo would inexorably lead them back to GE figures or worse, and here we are.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844055#Comment_118844055

Mate at 16% the ff parlimentry party is facing collaspe...its simple as that

I know well enough fg is losing membership in rural areas,

its youth branches,are now subject to main party oversight and yfg members get a pack from.the main party to a much larger degree than ever before,

I know they have lurched so far to.the right over the pandemic,they are shedding votes to shinners,this has lead to a flurry of internal emails from.hq to officer level

Would it be true,they sent 3 internal emails on same subject in 10 days just before xmas??,you'd be suprised whom i know🤫

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844088#Comment_118844088

So now you know about the inner workings of FF as well as FG? Maybe that is why special branch is after you. 🤣🤣🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844079#Comment_118844079

Opp's, see above

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844101#Comment_118844101

I dont know much the inner workings of local ff,....but i would have a reasonable idea of what is going on internally in fg,labour,sf and soc dems,IFA,some other organisations etc,locally and about internal polling/broader dynamics etc,

as this weird bitter rivilarly is merly a dublin/internet thing,and deosnt happen in real life....i would have mates everywhere,and these things come up in chats etc (we have a whatsapp group and all,what with similar interests)

As you can guess,im a mad for gossip😅

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843997#Comment_118843997

"Then it swapped because people got pi**ed off with the virus."

😂🤣

That is a very selective opinion...

If there was anything, I don't think it was the virus that 'everyone was pi**ed off with'.. 🤣

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844020#Comment_118844020

No they wouldn't. Not if they don't know about it, nor if they have no proof.

Who said I had no issues with anyone else doing it?

I said I wouldn't believe Leo didn't do it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844088#Comment_118844088

But, SF haven’t made any gains. A worrying trend for them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844142#Comment_118844142

I mean you can interpet it as that if you wish,im not so pushed really

But would yous not feel,after throwing kitchen sink etc at the shinners with months (even somehow attempting to conflate russia invading ukraine with em-lolz) and floating a 30% taxband they are still shedding votes to elsewhere....and this should send alarm bells ringing,

Portugal,germany (and chile)have recently elected a left government,as our ties with eu deepen,this will be more and more palatable with the electorate,and be shown yet more international examples of it working,while the conservative party of right in uk lurches from crisis to crisis

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844142#Comment_118844142

Oh I don't know which is best holding steady at 33% or dropping to 19%? I wonder if you asked Martin or Varadkar which they would prefer I'm sure they would go for the dropping figure rather than holding steady.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844159#Comment_118844159

Who threw kitchen sink at Sinn Fein? You need to stop believing what you are reading online. At this stage the government should sit back and watch the opposition crumble. The link with Paddy Cosgrove alone will drive supporters in all directions 😂😂

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844218#Comment_118844218

It seems at this stage SF should have finished off the parties but they haven’t ….as I said the talk of the demise of all parties is hilarious 😂

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844101#Comment_118844101

What does 'Opp's' mean? I presume you meant 'oops'?

Party's have collapsed before. FF and Labour spring to mind, they didn't experience a demise.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844137#Comment_118844137

Don’t worry about it, we all know only one party is currently running fake accounts across all social media.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844293#Comment_118844293

Never going to happen. You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that. SF have been less than steller in opposition. The problem for FFG is people are sick of them and no matter what they have tried they are still losing ground. Maybe FG Need a change of leader.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844286#Comment_118844286

Mate day in,day out they are out blaming sinn fein for everything and using stormont and a funeral in belfast to absolve emselves of accepting any responsibility for failures here with years

IIRC they bizzarely used the speech for the centary of the anglo-irish treaty to not big up success of the last 100 years,but throw stones at the opposition.....this type behaviour may sell well among its base/online....but its deosnt sell among general population and seen as cheap/demeaning

They strike me,as a party whom over emphasis online issues and havnt a grasp on issues at ground level,hence how they taught brexit would win em.a election,but fundamentally noone cared outside of a tiny demographic (which is why labeling it as a revolt vote is flawed as fcuk)

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844326#Comment_118844326

I suggest you watch the lad who is good at shouting from behind Mary Lou in the Dail on his big live TV debate 🤣

Strange if everyone is sick of them and yet they are still hanging around….

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844316#Comment_118844316

My guess is they all are, FF seem a bit slower on the social media side of things, so I might be inclined to believe that they aren't, but if the leader of a party suggests they do it, I can't see how they could expect anyone to believe that they didn't.

Did they give any reason for not going ahead with it? 😅

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844336#Comment_118844336

As I already said, you need to stop listening to online army who repeat the same rubbish as if people care about it.

As we seen on this very forum, a little tiff in the Dail and it was the opposition supporters making a big deal about it and same on Twitter, nobody cares. Covid is over and people don’t have the time anymore, well except the opposition who seem to be still stuck in that loop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844362#Comment_118844362

And there it is,the arrogance of fg,saying your concerns arent real...trust the party above all else

Your being provided with reasonably constructive outline and issues raised,which you have simply decided to dismiss out of hand and label as not real....they are carrying on arrogantly like this with years as regards homelessness and rental crisis,and its only gotton worse and worse under em

You cant keep blaming cosgrove for failures of the government and deciding any issues raised arent real,and then claim to be perplexed as to why they are seen as out of touch

(Covid isnt over either,this will be worst year for deaths yet)

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844389#Comment_118844389

You don't seem to be reading my posts and gone off on some prearranged ramble. I do like how you got in the buzz word.

I will leave you to your issues with special branch.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844362#Comment_118844362

With FG tumbling into the teens it is not hard to see the public don't care for them.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843046#Comment_118843046

Another pathetic ostrich responses but I'll be your huckleberry. Not one question answered either Blanch. Tut tut, you're struggling to respond.

All of my posts have shown that FG's 2015 bill would bring increased powers of investigation. If you watched the program you would notice that many many internal wrongdoing investigations went nowhere or got stalled. They also used these endless investigations to block FOI requests. They hope the citizens will simply give up when the investigation is taking years.

The RTE Investigates program outlined major problems in local government, including council employee fraud, mismangement, false accounting, the misleading of other public bodies in grant applications, and a shocking waste of taxpayers' money. The lack of accountability and transparency was a constant theme throughout. There were many many examples and I even provided a county by county link.

So, do you agree that reform is needed? Fine Gael certainly did in 2011 and 2015. They promised to implement the Mahon recommendations.

But they lied.

So I have been very good to respond to you. Why don't you attempt these questions;

Q1. Did you watch the RTE Investigates program? Did you notice a trend in the council investigations and the frustration from affected citizens?

Q2. Do you contend that the fraud, corruption, waste of public money, mismanagement, lack of oversight/accountability is unfixable?

Q3. Have you heard of the Mahon Tribunal?

Q4. Why did your party promise to reform local government in 2011 and subsequently draft the 2015 Public Sector Standards Bill?

Q5. Why haven't many of the investigation reports been published e.g. Mulcahy?

As for increased powers of investigation, the shelved 2015 Public Sector Standards Bill would have allowed these additional powers;

Investigative power

The proposed Bill provides for an increase in the Commissioner’s powers of investigation and available sanctions. In respect of a breach or contravention of the proposed legislative provisions, the Commissioner may request the Deputy Commissioner to carry out an investigation where a complaint has been made.

Following a preliminary inquiry, the Commissioner may dismiss the matter; provide advice or guidance to the public official; refer the matter to the relevant body; initiate a prosecution, or refer the matter to the Deputy Commissioner for further investigation.

The Public Sector Standards Bill will provide for the power to:

– interview and compel the production of documents

– hold hearings if necessary (including outside the State), along with the power to summon witnesses and receive evidence both orally and by affidavit

– take sworn statements and to apply to the Courts to have the investigators directions complied with

– apply for a search and seizure warrant from the District Court (private papers of members of the Oireachtas or confidential papers of the Oireachtas are excluded), if required in exceptional circumstances.

At the conclusion of an investigation, the Commissioner will produce a report setting out his or her findings and recommended sanctions and send it to the person who is the subject of the investigation. Such reports will be published, and will be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas where they relate to members.

Brendan Howlin commented on the proposed legislation.

"For the first time, a uniform framework of ethical regulations will apply at national and local level in Ireland," said Brendan Howlin, the then-Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, in a Dáil debate in January 2016.

"There will now be a consistency of approach to ethical obligations across the public sector and, in a new departure, overarching integrity principles for public officials will be enshrined in legislation."

Of course, all of this sounded promising. But progress on the legislation later ground to a halt.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844493#Comment_118844493

Only just 1 years and 10 months to see what the public actually want. Maybe they can change your mind as a floating voter in that time.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844583#Comment_118844583

They'll (FG) be making a decision before that. They cannot afford not to. Internal leak of something damaging forcing Varadkar out if the Criminal Inquiry fails to do it, would be my bet. As somebody said if you think FG hate other parties wait until you see how they hate one another.

Cluedo Monopoly

Galway politicians produce 600,000 items at Oireachts print facility – Connacht Tribune – Galway City Tribune:

This kind of nonsense boils my blood.

Galway politicians used the Oireachtas print facility to produce more than 600,000 items of material to communicate with constituents over the past two years.

The items are produced and printed free of charge for senators and TDs but they cost the Houses of the Oireachtas in excess of €15,000 in 2020 and 2021.

The outlay does not include the cost of printing staff including graphic designers who designed the material.

Customised promotional material that was printed for local TDs and Senators included greeting cards, Christmas cards, business cards, letterheads, compliment slips, Oireachtas-headed paper, newsletters and leaflets.

Independent Senator Rónán Mullen, from Ahascragh, had some 246,900 items printed costing €4,237. That included 900 Christmas cards, 116,000 newsletters and 140,000 A4 colour printed letterheads.

Galway West TD, Hildegarde Naughton (FG) had material worth €3,632 printed since she was promoted to Minister of State at the Department of Transport attending Cabinet. Minister Naughton printed 145,000 items including 47,000 A4 colour newsletters.

Galway politicians used the Oireachtas print facility to produce more than 600,000 items of material to communicate with constituents over the past two years.

The items are produced and printed free of charge for senators and TDs but they cost the Houses of the Oireachtas in excess of €15,000 in 2020 and 2021.

The outlay does not include the cost of printing staff including graphic designers who designed the material.

Customised promotional material that was printed for local TDs and Senators included greeting cards, Christmas cards, business cards, letterheads, compliment slips, Oireachtas-headed paper, newsletters and leaflets.

Independent Senator Rónán Mullen, from Ahascragh, had some 246,900 items printed costing €4,237. That included 900 Christmas cards, 116,000 newsletters and 140,000 A4 colour printed letterheads.

Galway West TD, Hildegarde Naughton (FG) had material worth €3,632 printed since she was promoted to Minister of State at the Department of Transport attending Cabinet. Minister Naughton printed 145,000 items including 47,000 A4 colour newsletters.

Galway East TD, Anne Rabbitte (FF) Minister of State at the Department of Health with responsibility for Disability had some 46,500 items printed at a cost of €1,345. Among the printed material were 500 greeting cards and 21,000 A4 colour newsletters.

Former Government chief whip and former Galway West TD, Senator Seán Kyne (FG) had material printed that cost €878. It included 2,000 compliment slips and 2,000 Oireachtas headed paper.

...............

It should not be allowed. Complete waste of money. Let them pay for the waste themselves. I got Kyne's BS newsletter and it went straight in the bin. As for Senator Mullen, let Rome pay for his garbage.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844596#Comment_118844596

The next election is February 2025. What you think or feel is pretty much irrelevant. For a floating voter you seem to have your mind made up already though.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844618#Comment_118844618

And my point is that FG will have to decide before that - before Varadkar becomes Taoiseach again. Everyone's opinion here is 'irrelevant'. Pretty lame putdown TBH.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844609#Comment_118844609

its a common problem across all parties and independents

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/oireachtas-printer-christmas-cards-2021-5650242-Jan2022/%3Famp%3D1

Classic Healy Rae family

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ten-thousand-taxpayer-funded-calendars-printed-for-michael-healy-rae-were-dumped-in-recycle-bin-over-missing-hyphen-41406932.html

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844583#Comment_118844583

I'd say (probably more of a hope tbh) it will take a lot closer to 10 years to change most floating voters to ever vote FG again. I definitely can't imagine it would be in the next 2 years.

I honestly think FG are completely blind or could not care less to how big a dislike there is out there for them. It's going to be a tough road back, and it's going to get worse when nothing is changing/ everything staying the same.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844662#Comment_118844662

It wasn't a putdown at all just some reality. The next general election is over 700 days away. Maybe in that time as a floating voter you might see some promise in one of the current government parties and vote for them. I think you mentioned before you only voted for SF for the first time in the last election so they must have let you down when they had no appetite for forming a government.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844699#Comment_118844699

I see you are selectively only remmebering some of what I have said.

My goal is to end the toxic power swap we have had here for 100 years. I won't be floating in FG waters for a long long time nor FF's.

The Greens got a preference from me last time but unlikely the next time out.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844717#Comment_118844717

Out of pure curiosity who got your vote in 2016?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844726#Comment_118844726

To my eternal shame I decided to trust FG again. I'll never forgive myself they completely abused my trust.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844680#Comment_118844680

Just because it's common, doesn't make it right. I am sure that taxpayer money could be spent on more worthwhile causes amongst our public services.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844736#Comment_118844736

I feel your pain. I voted FG for 20+ years right up until 2011. Never ever again. The New Politics lie sunk me. Catherine Connolly got my #1 in 2016 and 2020 and she has been a brilliant TD. One of the best in the Dail. I gave my #2 to the Social Democrat candidate but unfortunately he did not get in.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845811#Comment_118845811

...its very interesting to watch the amount of people that are slowly abandoning the major parties, im meeting more and more life long supporters that have had enough of these parties, something fundamental is clearly going wrong in these parties, a very interesting phenomenon

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844521#Comment_118844521

Again, that is all just regurgitation. I can read that in a newspaper or press release on the Oireachtas website. The only thing original in your post is invective directed at me. As I said already, you can read about my criticism of the Councils in plenty of threads.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844609#Comment_118844609

They’re not the only ones. Former TD, Seamus Healy used them to print calendars. What was really annoying about this was including his WUAG County Councilor on it too.

Mind you, they were handy to stick on the fridge once the top and bottom were cut off

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/oireachtas-printing-controversy-td-insists-his-72500-calendars-are-not-for-christmas-35299615.html

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845877#Comment_118845877

Still waiting on a government thread, to hear your view on the government's failure to act on promises made by Jan O'Sulivan and Phil Hogan.

The buck very much stops with the government on reform here.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842312#Comment_118842312

Nothing is certain in life. But it's a prediction and better than "zero chance" and "insert party name will be toast in next election" which we see all the time here. Today it is the turn of FG. Tomorrow? well who knows

The specific numbers aren't really the issue here; the point I was making was about the intentions of the parties, specifically Fianna Fail.

You were assuming that if FF + FG +Green had the numbers to form another government then that would happen. I don't think this can be taken for granted at all.

All the signs are that SF will come out of the next election as clearly the largest party, with a massive mandate. But it may still not have the numbers to form its favoured 'broad left' coalition. In that scenario, is FF really going to bring a jaded FG, in power for nearly 15 years, back for another term?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846202#Comment_118846202

That is why the election campaign will be so fascinating in this new era of utterly butterly merger/I can't believe civil war politics is over.

They will be asked if they will coalesce with one another again, and what do they say? How do you offer something different while saying you will just do what you did before?

Fascinating really.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845877#Comment_118845877

Your slippery eel act is embarrassing but so be it. I don't care about your opinion on other threads. I am asking simple questions because you are suggesting reform is not needed. I have educated you on the proposed reforms and increased powers of investigation - you're welcome.

Myself and Francie have been asking the same question over and over and you continue to evade it. Why hasn't the FFG government implemented the promised reforms around the local government?