FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889569#Comment_118889569

You are all over the shop with this nurse-bed ratio.

Bed occupancy rates does not equate to a high number of nurses per capita. How can you extrapolate that? It means the beds we have are always nearly full. Obviously there are capacity issues but you wont admit that.

And where is your 20% coming from?? You made that up?? How do you know that your new number makes the ratio better than other countries?

Did you read the article I sent you? It talks about dangerous practices due to lack of capacity. Where did you see positives in there? Please list the exact sentences.

Speaking on “Safer nurse staffing: the right person in the right place at the right time, he said that if you just looked at OECD figures, Ireland, with 12.4 nurses per 1,000 population, had more nurses than most OECD states. However, this was not the full picture, as the Irish figures included nurses working in management and education and that made it difficult to get accurate figures of those working directly in clinical practice. In other countries, part of the registration process involved stating place of work – this did not happen in Ireland.

It had also to be remembered that the environment in which Irish nurses worked was very complex, because Ireland had one of the lowest number of beds per thousand population and one of the highest bed occupancy rates in the OECD. The number of beds in hospitals, patient acuity and dependency, support from other health professionals and patient turnover determined the kind of work which nurses carried out. A small number of beds, increasing patient acuity and dependency and high turnover meant nurses would be much busier.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889860#Comment_118889860

From your own post:

"IRELAND HAD ONE OF THE LOWEST NUMBER OF BEDS PER THOUSAND POPULATION"

Now that is your point. The author also accepted that on paper we had one of the highest number of nurses per population but that some of that could be explained away by nurses working in education and management. Fair enough, and if you look at the figures, to take us back to the OECD average, 20% of nurses would have to be working in education and management.

Nevertheless, my point still stands. Highest number of nurses per bed was my original claim, and you have proved it for me. Thanks again.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889648#Comment_118889648

I think the likes of Brucie want Tony Holohan who has given everything for Ireland for the last 30 months to take a pay cut.

The man should be rewarded for what he did, but the cohort of Zero-covid nutters, Covid-deniers and anti-vaxxers are combining to try and do him down.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889648#Comment_118889648

Yes. He will be paid by you and I for a job he no longer does, while we also pay his replacement to actually do the job.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889896#Comment_118889896

And you'd be wrong.

Still making up things people never said and criticising it?

The man should be rewarded for what he did, but the cohort of Zero-covid nutters, Covid-deniers and anti-vaxxers are combining to try and do him down.

That's no way to talk about Leo.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-criticises-holohan-says-level-5-advice-not-thought-through-1.4372925

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889881#Comment_118889881

And my point still stand. Even if we have a superior nurse-bed ratio (and we do not know the true ratio) than other countries, how does that help and why do we have so many problems in the hospitals (trolley crisis, waiting lists).

My link showed that the lack of capacity completely negates any benefit from a better nurse-bed ratio.

It had also to be remembered that the environment in which Irish nurses worked was very complex, because Ireland had one of the lowest number of beds per thousand population and one of the highest bed occupancy rates in the OECD. The number of beds in hospitals, patient acuity and dependency, support from other health professionals and patient turnover determined the kind of work which nurses carried out. A small number of beds, increasing patient acuity and dependency and high turnover meant nurses would be much busier.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889896#Comment_118889896

Would you give over.

First and foremost, it is more about the underhanded way a position was created and he was "rewarded". But then again, it has never actually been called a reward to my knowledge. It was made out that the position was needed and he was the best person for it.

For two party's that seem to be so obsessed with optics, more so FG, it is baffling that they can't see how this looks.

But we all know they can. It suits them to act this way on this one.

Tony Holohan took the position knowing it wasn't a permanent thing, and I am sure he got well 'rewarded' already for his two years at it.

I can't remember how many of the frontline got 'rewarded'.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890072#Comment_118890072

Well,

(1) Study and Research into public health needs to be significantly improved in Ireland.

(2) Holohan is the best person for that job.

(3) The gripes at Holohan continue, as I said, we know where they are coming from.

Suckit

On a separate note, has the that lad that got the dodgy ventilators because he knew how to buy from China 🙄 got away with it?

I hear he's living in Malta now with his ill gotten millions. Tried his hand at a few covid companies. but seems to getting away with what seems like fraud.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890072#Comment_118890072

There's optics and there's the whole point of being in government. No point looking good if you can't dole out the sweet deals.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890072#Comment_118890072

One party simply ignores the excesses/incompetence of the other. That's how it's been since the get-go. Backing each other up.

Instead of a toxic power swap, we now have a toxic coalition.

blanch152

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0406/1290738-exchequer-figures-march/

"The public finances recorded a surplus at the end of March of €200m, according to the latest Exchequer figures published by the Department of Finance.

This compares to a deficit of €4.2 billion recorded at the end of March 2021, which means an improvement of €4.3 billion."

No wonder there is such moaning and griping around here today, the government has pulled a strong economic performance out of the bag again.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890084#Comment_118890084

You just called it a reward. WTF was his payment for? Was that not an agreed amount to do the job?

How do we know he is the best person for the job? Is there a list of those interviewed anywhere online that we can see?

I have no issues with Holohan, the way that FFG are using their old BS tricks to appoint somebody is the issue, as I already said.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889945#Comment_118889945

Have you got a link to that? My reading of it is that he’s still on the same salary, just a different job.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890110#Comment_118890110

Yup, you're right. Brucie got the wrong end of the stick again. Don't know why he is bothered though, as Holohan will not be making any "profit" out of it.

Suckit

.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890110#Comment_118890110

Correct.

TCD isn't a free for all any tax payer can attend Citizens advice bureau.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890133#Comment_118890133

More made up stuff.

It must feel a very hollow victory to create your own made up opinions for others to try get a win out of them.

Bricklayers still working for free in your head? People get paid to build all kinds of things for other people every day of the week. Fact.

Funnily enough he'll be another private concern making profit off the tax payer.

You still pondering an opinion on FF/FG/Green not doing anything about Mahon findings and recommendations?

Hugo Sheridan

Fine Gael were rightly torn to shreds toda and yesterday on social media for their blatant attempt at history revisionism.

Placing "Fine Gael" (complete with the logo) beside the faces of Arthur Griffith, and Michael Collins (both of who died decades before FG were formed) and claiming Michael Collins as a "statesman", Collins who spent a considerable amount of his life trying to overthrow the state (not to mention bringing a geurilla war to mainland Britain) is a site to behold.

Have they no real former founding members they're not ashamed of to try and earn a few quid off instead lol?

Shameless party, they really and truely are.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890533#Comment_118890533

And wanting to comemorate the RIC/tans who collins murdered. Mixed up bunch.

Brucie Bonus

Harris says its up to TCD and the Dept of health to clarify why Holohan is getting paid for a job hes not doing while Donnelly says he didn't sign off on it but heard about it a few weeks ago.

Incompetence and/or cronyism.

Dr Tony Holohan’s €187K-a year-civil service funded Trinity College secondment will last ‘indefinite duration’ – he won’t return as chief medical officer

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/dr-tony-holohans-187k-a-year-civil-service-funded-trinity-college-secondment-will-last-indefinite-duration-he-wont-return-as-chief-medical-officer-41525079.html

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890762#Comment_118890762

Apparently Trinity professors are paid 30,000 less than a CMO. Beginning to make sense if that is true. A little sleight of hand and nobody need take a paycut. 😁

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890104#Comment_118890104

You fell into another doozy.

The reason tax receipts are up is because of the VAT for petrol/diesel, heating oil, gas, electricity, food etc etc which have shot up in price etc etc. The cost of living is causing a lot of hardship for taxpayers. People are really suffering and a few weeks ago the government promised a load of 'inflation busting measures'. Martin got mauled in the Dail today because they have only implemented 1 measure. Trust me, this wont help their dire polling. They should be reducing VAT for inflation hit products but they are making excuses about the delays.

The government needs to get the finger out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890809#Comment_118890809

Would you move to another job for less money? He’s still a Civil Servant. I think he’ll be a great asset to Trinity.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891264#Comment_118891264

Then let Trinity pay him.

We are not his benefactors. He was employed to do a job. He's no longer doing it and we are still paying him plus his replacement. In what world is that okay? As a tax payer if you are okay with that, good for you but don't try defend or justify it.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891246#Comment_118891246

Gas. Magic money tree talk if we want to do something for the public, then on the other hand bragging about all the money fleeced off the public like they went out and earned it themselves. Deluded.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891264#Comment_118891264

Why can't trinity pay the extra 30k if he's such a great asset, it stinks!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891264#Comment_118891264

I wouldn't move to another job and expect my former employer to make up the shortfall and pay somebody else to do my job...no Maryanne.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890133#Comment_118890133

I see Brucie is back and making a meal out of general logic, yet again. The more things change...

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891315#Comment_118891315

Then let Trinity pay him.

Isn't Trinity a public University and receives government funding, so it's the same pot of cash at the end of the day?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892065#Comment_118892065

No. How finance and budgeting works is money is allocated based on need and availability of funds. His salary is for a CMO. His new position is at a college. Also we are paying the salary of the new CMO. TCD are getting him for free. The health service is picking up the tab. Or do you support health money going to parks or a college because it all comes from the tax payer sure?

Us paying for the same position twice is enough. Or you cool with that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892065#Comment_118892065

But it's not the same pot no matter how you try to dress it up!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892065#Comment_118892065

😁😁 Michael McGrath got laughed out of RTE studios trying that one on. Then he tried to pretend he didn't know the details.

Dempo1

Well as predicted the Holohan Trinity Gig is growing legs. I said yesterday you couldn't make this up, I was wrong, more Airy Fairy Tales. Department of health refusing to say who signed off on this nonsense, Donnelly now saying he only found out it was a secondment as opposed to Holohan Retiring on Tuesday (The very day, he made a fool of himself on morning Ireland (not the first time)

Simon Harris has perked up, saying clarity needed, even the expert on following the script "Heather Humphries", saying it could have been handled better, Heather clearly not understanding this shouldn't have happened at All.

It's almost a Bi Monthly Scandal, with this Government and the notion Trinity College can't afford to cover the Salary is beggar's belief, I'd wager this "Makey Uppy Appointment" would never have even been discussed if Trinity was expected to pay Holohans salary.

You know its bad when Various Government Ministers, TD'S and indeed Taoiseach struggling to explain of justify this absurd nonsense.

But as Donnelly put it

" Sure its Public Money and we should be feeling Lucky" 🙄

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892386#Comment_118892386

I'm sure we will get the usual excuses now of "Nothing to see here", "standard practice", "its only the permanently outraged", etc. You would have thought they would have learned the lessons after the Zappone fiasco but no. Infact this looks worse as it seems that the Department of Health are a law onto themselves which is not really surprising considering who is in charge there.

Speaking of the Zappone fiasco, any sign yet of that position being advertised, after all we were told/lectured by government and their supporters that this was a important position, I'm sure it would have been filled promptly after Zappone appointment failed or were we just lied too as usual?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892647#Comment_118892647

😏 I don't believe there's been any advertising re a replacement for Zappone but whilst we're on about matters not finalised, Did Harris ever get around to correcting the Dail record 🤔🤔 if I recall he was very, very determined to do so.

Cluedo Monopoly

Stephen Donnelly was not informed that Holohan was taking a secondment funded by the Health department until 2 days ago. He believed that Holohan was retiring from the public service and taking up the Trinity academic role on a full-time basis. He was not informed until this week that Dr Holohan’s salary would be paid for by the Department of Health rather than Trinity.

Mr McGrath and Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe both confirmed on Thursday that they only found out about the arrangement on Tuesday morning when it appeared in the media. Mr McGrath said that the situation ‘could have been handled better’ and that when it was announced that Dr Holohan was leaving the Department of Health, it was assumed that it was a ‘permanent move’.

He said that while there may be exceptions, the general principle is that the host body pays the person’s salary. There needs to be, he said, a proper explanation and rationale provided on why this is not the case.

Mr McGrath said that he will ‘be engaging with the Department of Health on some of the questions that arise from that.’ He added: ‘There are some unusual characteristics to the Holohan secondment in relation to the open-ended nature. It would normally be the case that the host body that was receiving the services of a person who was seconded would pay the salary.’

Dempo1

Tony has spoken "Privately of Course"

My take on this debacle is he was being pushed , silenced and a way out was needed, someone came up with this Turd of an arrangement and someone signed off on it 🤔

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tony-holohan-defends-187k-appointment-to-trinity-college-says-it-is-not-his-intention-to-return-to-cmo-role-41529303.html

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892934#Comment_118892934

If true, this has a bigger stench of it than Zappone.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893280#Comment_118893280

Of course I'm only surmising so to speak but you got to wonder.

A Makey Uppy position in a private Institution, bad for by the Tax Payer.

A secondment by its definition, Temporary

No one admitting to actually signing off on this (maybe that just a Department of Health thing.

From the Taoiseach down, not aware of or at least understand how this arrangement was formulated

Various "Government Ministers and TDS seeking clarification

I've watched the CMO's performance carefully over the past two years, commended him on occasions, Question some decisions occasionally.

If you look at the time line from the last "Blind siding " as Government like to call it, Holohan has in essence been on leave of absence , barely a peep out of him in months and now this curious little arrangement 👀👀👀👀

Brucie Bonus

The coalition of cronies will give us the 'lessons learned', which is code for you caught us but there'll be no consequences.

They'll begrudge frontline student nurses during the height of covid getting a few bob but hand wave away paying two CMO salaries.

I can see former Goldman Sachs head, husband of JCMcN getting some sort of tax payer funded gig since he lost his seanad bid.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893280#Comment_118893280

If I had a euro for every post on here critical of the government that started with the words "If true" and turned out to be untrue, I would be a very rich man.

Dempo1

Got a giggle out of this headline on this article 🤣

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/green-party-may-soon-want-people-to-turn-out-the-lights-when-theyre-having-sex-fine-gael-td-tells-heated-party-meeting-41528193.html

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893539#Comment_118893539

I doubt that 😂

It is all true.

Floppybits

Looks like there are even more questions about Dr Holahans new role at TCD. This time his academic credentials for the role seemingly TCD academic staff are not to impressed.

Still though nothing to see here, mountain out of a molehill. 😀

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40846100.html

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893684#Comment_118893684

Oh dear, a dirty stroke there by FG.

Sources confirmed that a message from Seanad leader Regina Doherty was read in her absence, which said it was not credible that the Taoiseach was not made aware of the appointment or his approval sought.

Regina is always used as a messenger when the FG Ministers/TDs are too scared to say it. But she wasn't even at the meeting so had to send a written message! Very interesting. The game is afoot.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893684#Comment_118893684

That article can't be correct. Blanch has already pointed out that Holohan is the best person for that job.

Meanwhile, academics at TCD have said the appointment is “a shock and a departure from longstanding convention”.

Regardless of his merits,” said one source, “Dr Holohan wouldn't even be shortlisted for the most junior academic role. He doesn't have a Phd, and despite lacking even the basic credentials, he's been given a full professor's role.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890084#Comment_118890084

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893803#Comment_118893803

Its his "reward". Or gift bag, whichever.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893684#Comment_118893684

On Paper , Ronan Glynn has more qualifications, actually impressive educational achievements

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893803#Comment_118893803

I find it amazing that the examiner continues to get all these great comments....maybe someday they might actually have a name behind the comments. That always seems to elude them