FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897385#Comment_118897385

Sleight of hand, jettisoning protocol, not seeking approval = cronyism and possibly corruption blanch. You know this.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897286#Comment_118897286

🤣🤣🤣

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897371#Comment_118897371

I think if I was a person going for my PhD then I think I would be pretty p**d off if the professor that was suppose to Tutoring a mentoring didn't have a PhD and was "learning on the job". 😀

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897385#Comment_118897385

If Tony walked out tomorrow morning and was hired by a private company you would have the same people outraged on here because we have lost this person with all his knowledge to privates companies after paying him during the pandemic.

It is a case of the same people complaining no mater what the government does. At this stage all we have with most people is a case of "cry wolf". We have heard it all before, same people shouting and roaring about it. Same over the top reaction.

The desperation of the few people to trying and get someone else to join this thread so they can argue shows it all.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897407#Comment_118897407

Sssssh, facts might offend some 😉

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897407#Comment_118897407

Already asked and explained. Trying to be condescending to posters....no interest.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897385#Comment_118897385

Holohan will continue to receive his CMO salary paid for by the Department of Health, but will instead work in Trinity College in a role created specifically for him. The role was not open to applicants or announced prior in any way.

Is Tony Holohan the best candidate for such a role?

Who knows, because no other candidates were so much as invited to apply.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897345#Comment_118897345

So you think users of Boards are just unemployed, idle so to speak, WOW 😳

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897423#Comment_118897423

Get way outta that. No one would bat an eyelid if Holahan left to take up a job in the private sector, you are just making up stuff now. Why would anyone care about him going to work in the private sector? Now folks would care if he was going to work in the private sector but his wages were funded from the public sector but as far as going to work in the private sector I am sure people would wish him the best of luck.

blanch152

@Floppybits "I think if I was a person going for my PhD then I think I would be pretty p**d off if the professor that was suppose to Tutoring a mentoring didn't have a PhD and was "learning on the job"

You are way behind the latest thinking on this. Have you never heard of APEL?

"Prior learning may also be an outcome of non-formal or informal learning achieved through work, voluntary activities or private study, for which you may not have a certificate. The process of using this type of learning for higher education purposes is called: Accreditation of Prior Experiential Learning (APEL)."

While a PhD may be very unusual in this, Holohan's experience and expertise is such that a PhD would be pretty easy to acquire. I also think that anyone studying for a PhD in public health would be delighted and enthused to have Holohan as their mentor. They wouldn't have your elitist and snobbish attitude.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897444#Comment_118897444

Now, just think about what you have accused me of for a few mins and then come back to me.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897439#Comment_118897439

This fiasco have both the whiff of the Woulfe appointment and the Zappone appointment about it. So much for "lessons learned".

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897439#Comment_118897439

Can you think of another candidate in Ireland with his experience and expertise in the public health management of the Covid pandemic?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897473#Comment_118897473

WTF, this isn't the interview for the post blanch. Why would we have to think of a better candidate?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897473#Comment_118897473

Is there a requirement for said applicant to come from Ireland?

Also given how transparent most of NPHET decisions and the covid19 epidemiology has been throughout the pandemic, the data is there for any existing epidemiologists and PHD holders to provide teachings about the state's response to a pandemic. Tony Holohan does not have any secret knowledge about the pandemic response that isnt already in the public domain, so any implication that only he can teach this is patently untrue.

Most academic faculty do not have the real world experience either, it is not a requirement for any kind of teaching post. The idea that we must do it here is absurd.

In Immunology the professors who teach you about vaccination have never designed a vaccine themselves - nor do they need to. Same goes for epidemiology and pandemic management - the professors have not worked in same nor do they need to to teach it. This applies to the majority of academic positions, they teach about things they have not done in the real world - thats just how it is.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896844#Comment_118896844

How would you know who is or isn't the best person? I would ask if you have a qualification in HR but I am sure I would get an answer saying you have, such is the norm on boards.

Anyway as I said I was just trying to enlighten a few of you on how people are hired in this day & age. Seems I have failed.

🤣😂

First off, It was Blanch that declared Holohan was the best person for the job.

But the "qualification in HR" is just hilarious.. Especially given that it is followed by you trying to enlighten everyone how people are hired in this day and age.. FPMSL 🤣

Somehow, I don't think the girl from HR was involved in this one...

I see you are back to calling things 'outrage' again. As for mentioning "the same few posters" - Have you been off this thread for more than 20 minutes in the last two months?

I'd mention pot kettle, but knowing your inability to understand idioms, you'd probably start a whole new conversation about racism,,

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897467#Comment_118897467

What exactly are you on about, I've excused you of nothing other than to suggest an update to your user name (brokendownrecord) and that was a while back, or is it the Defenders all quite this morning that perturbed so much 🤔

Cluedo Monopoly

Watt himself is preparing the report for Donnelly. Nice 😂.

I imagine they will transfer funding to Trinity. That will really piss the other professors off.

Damage is done no matter what excuses they come out with.

Watching Blanch and BrokenAngel in full defence mode (i.e. straw clutching) is fun!

New Politics 2011

The fundamental goal of Fine Gael’s New Politics is to build a New Republic where the peoples’ concerns are placed at the centre of government. In a Republic, the people are supposed to be supreme. Judged by that simple standard, Ireland today is a Republic in name only. The expressions “Golden Circle”, “Crony Government” and “Cosy Capitalism” all describe the same thing: The abduction of our Republic by both public and private sector vested interests, aided and abetted by the present Government.

Fine Gael is convinced that public confidence in government can be restored – but only if there is real tangible change in the political system. The New Politics is designed to tackle head-on the major weaknesses in our archaic system of government, so that the huge policy mistakes of the last few years will not be repeated. It will End “Crony Government” in Ireland by opening up government and giving the Dáil, for the first time in its history, real power to hold ministers and public bodies to account.

All lies. No reform. Same-o Same-o.

Dempo1

It's even more extraordinary people are actually defending what has occurred.

I care not a Jot about Holohans Educational prowess (albeit certainly questionable for such a post), his public service, even his Salary, I care more about the Shenanigans at play here which Watts and Holohan are up to their necks in.

I actually think Trinity Leadership have been extremely naive, why would they not create an entirely new post for one individual they don't have to pay, its not their concern if Tony as a little arrangement with Watt's.

If I were Trinity Leadership, I'd be running a mile from this stench.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897532#Comment_118897532

(1) You do not know of another credible candidate. Good, that is clear. Anyone from abroad would cost a multiple of the salary proposed for Holohan. In fact, most of them are working for pharmaceuticals

(2) The second part betrays a complete lack of understanding of modern academia. In fact, in the medical professorship area, the professors are only part-time in education, the rest of their time is spent in hospitals. Elsewhere, experience of working in the real world is an advantage to professors.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897527#Comment_118897527

So there isn't one. Let's dispense with the stupid carry-on that there were hundreds of people out there available for this job. The pontificating from some on this is just silly.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897473#Comment_118897473

Dr Ronan Glynn.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897705#Comment_118897705

Why is their a candidate in the first place, have you not grasped the fact this was a makey uppy post that apparently we're all supposed to feel lucky and greatful about. Do you seriously not see what has occurred here, it makes the Zappone Debacle look almost timid in comparison. This time round it's actually seems to be True, Not a single politician was aware of what was going on 😳

It's beyond shocking.

Cluedo Monopoly

Taoiseach says Dr Tony Holohan's secondment to Trinity should be 'paused' (thejournal.ie)

Chair of the Oireachtas Committee on Finance Public Expenditure and Reform, John McGuinness, told RTE’s Morning Ireland that the committee has “serious concerns about how the department reached the decision in relation to all of this and also the fact that the minister was not informed”.

😂 They had the same concerns in Febnruary when Watt was given a massive 80k payrise!

Robert Watt’s salary on course to top €300,000 later this year (irishtimes.com)

John McGuinness, the chairman of the Oireachtas Committee on Finance - who has been highly critical of the initial €81,000 pay increase for Mr Watt - has said he should not get more increases.

The committees’ report found that the interim appointment and salary increase were arranged in an “ad hoc fashion following discussions among a small number of senior officials and members of the Government”.

....

They treat the public with utter contempt.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896844#Comment_118896844

Nobody claimed to be experts. We read what the TCD professor's said and commented on that. You are the one preaching about on the job training and hiring practices. You are the only person discussing everyday employment. You are the one claiming you are trying to 'enlighten' everyone on a topic only you are discussing.

You said I mocked a person. Now that we know that's a lie, you've moved on to say I made a joke using a person. I compared on the job training to an academic posting.

You still have not discussed the CMO continuing to get paid the CMO salary, for a role he's not qualified for, while we are to pay the new CMO also.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897003#Comment_118897003

Awkward. We were told he was the best man for the job. We were told sure the money all comes from the same pot. We were told he can on the job train.

If it was all cool and groovy why the pause by the Taoiseach and uninformed commentary by the tanaiste?

Another 'ah feck, sure lessons learned'.

Incompetent, crooked or both.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897444#Comment_118897444

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897646#Comment_118897646

As I said just think about what you posted in the comment above about "users of Boards are just unemployed" then come back to me when you work out the problem with that statement.

If you can't see the issue, just ask

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897699#Comment_118897699

I think I have pointed out that we all know you don't care about "Holohans Educational prowess" it is just the latest in the long list of over the top reaction to everything the government does. As I said already, "cry wolf".

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897851#Comment_118897851

Just to remind you of your snide comment "It's called having a Job" how else would you expect that comment to be read, and you outraged about a comparison used to explain upskilling 🤔, a spot of hypocrisy at play I sense

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897857#Comment_118897857

You don't understand the phrase 'cry wolf'.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897857#Comment_118897857

As you well know, my intended context is primarily explain to you and others, this disgraceful Shenanigans is not primarily about Holohans education, it's about a makey up position, conveniently created for him and the cosy arrangements to insure he retains his Salary, pension and technically, position, whilst public money will be used to pay someone else to do his job whilst he heads off to Trinity at NO cost to Trinity and the fact none of this arrangement was even discussed with Government.

But of course you know all this and choose to ignore the facts which are NOT made up.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897888#Comment_118897888

I do. It's an excellent description of what is going on. Every wonder why its the same 3-4 posters on here about every topic and none of the rest of thousands that use boards daily?

When you hear everyday about what a "terrible" thing the government have done people just switch off now. So Im sure the same few account on boards, the same few people on twitter(plus of course all the multiple accounts they run) will be running trying to get this to trend as if that means anything. All while the rest of us look forward to the weekend.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897874#Comment_118897874

If I was accusing everyone on boards of been unemployed as you claim, then I would be accusing myself of having no job would I not? I thought you might get to that but it seems you failed

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897923#Comment_118897923

You really are confusing yourself, just bizzare 😳

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897938#Comment_118897938

😂

Still can't work it out. Anyway will move on....

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897949#Comment_118897949

Please do 😉

Cluedo Monopoly

Good weekend in store in advance of the 'report'. I imagine only the bravest government TDs will be on the relevant radio shows with a 'questions need to be answered' approach. I wonder will the report be ready on Monday. Donnelly gone back into forced hiding but he said he fully supported the arrangement.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898021#Comment_118898021

Probably why the Taoiseach announced the "pause" on the appointment today to stop it dragging on over the weekend and possibly into next week. This whole fiasco just shows the contempt that Watt has for the Minister and the government, to think he could do this and not seek government approval. Maybe the government might take the opportunity to move Mr Watt on. It seems anything he is involved in just turns into a sh1t show. Just look at Slaintecare.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898021#Comment_118898021

I don't even think Colm Brophy and his substantial Neck will be out defending this but then again he can't help himself 😉

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898045#Comment_118898045

Wasn't Watt at Michael Mc Graths department before being poached by Donnelly 🤔 guess who's feeling the Gobshyte right now 😉

Watt is out of control, clearly a bully and now it would seem untouchable.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898086#Comment_118898086

😁😁 Colm tearing new ones, no doubt!

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898101#Comment_118898101

😂😂😂, can't abide the man but we better be careful, not to offend a certain person who'll not have a bad word said about this buffoon.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897923#Comment_118897923

'Cry wolf' inferres there is nothing going on and people are pretending there is. If there wasn't something going on you wouldn't be in here all day telling us there's nothing to see here and making inaccurate comments about people.

Dempo1

Curious, Robert Watt will be involved in the report, this needs independent scrutiny and Watt subject to questioning.

Cluedo Monopoly

Casual contempt for Donnelly exposed as Watt lets mask slip (irishtimes.com)

The Taoiseach’s intervention while abroad on official business to “pause” the appointment of the Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan as Professor of Public Health Strategy and Leadership at Trinity College Dublin is damning.

Damning for the minister for Health Stephen Donnelly because it exposes the casual contempt his most senior officials held him in. It is especially so for Robert Watt the secretary general because he has let the mask slip so far as to reveal that disrespect .

How after the row over his own appointment at Health and the increased salary that went with it he could be so deaf to public opinion or so contemptuous of political concern as to progress this appointment in the manner it happened, beggars’ belief.

Mr Watt said last April that he would waive the €81,000 the increase “until the economy begins to recover and unemployment falls”.

It was confirmed last week that he was taking the full salary which at that point stood at €294,920, – including a civil service pay increase that kicked in last October. The Department did not say when Mr Watt stopped waiving the increase.

...

How is Donnelly not shafting Watt after the latest example of contempt?

The permanent government are running the show just the way they like it.

Banana Republic.

Dempo1

I wonder will Trinity do the sensible thing and pull out of this nonsensical arrangement 🤔

Suckit

Remember he tried to gag RTE, (I thought it was longer back than last year) - that's the type of person he is.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/td-accuses-official-of-trying-to-gag-rt%C3%A9-over-documentary-1.4526743

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898100#Comment_118898100

Funny how people will go after frontline workers and the sick, but not the like of Watt. The policy and decision makers get a free pass.

Hugo Sheridan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897888#Comment_118897888

Maybe he misspelt what he posted.

Did he mean to type out "Cry Woulfe" perhaps?

There's striking similarities here with Mr Woulfe (and Zappones) cronyism after all.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898238#Comment_118898238

A free professor. Unlikely.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898238#Comment_118898238

I'm surprised they haven't already. I am sure their own faculty are non too pleased about this either.