FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913027#Comment_118913027

I absolutely did not and a bare faced mistruth, take a deep breath and go back and you'll see I clearly mentioned I have oil central heating and my preference for a host of reasons is my stove , the discussion went from farce to fiction , laws of physics, bad builders, causes of condensation etc, when you came out of this thread for air to join the other thread , you then spouted utter nonsense, questioning (offensively) my decision to purchase a house in rural Ireland. I'll take no lectures from you on this topic.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913088#Comment_118913088

And the young greens going to be proven right, I heard a little of O gormans interview earlier any my god, utterly dreadful. I've a bone to pick with him on another more sensitive matter but this thread not the place to discuss if you'll forgive me 😏

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913093#Comment_118913093

They didn't delete all of the posts: My house dates from 1800, I do have a central heating system , admittedly 15 years old. My main heating source is a Stove , if Oil wasn't so expensive, I'd likely use it more but from a cost perspective, my yearly turf cost, a fraction of oil cost .

I live in the countryside, you made the mistake of thinking I lived in Dublin still so came up with this story about buying a house in rural Ireland. If I said anything I would be insulting myself. Maybe you should stop lying

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913131#Comment_118913131

You've actually just proved you'd lied , thank you, your actually that determined to prove yourself, you go back to copy and paste, very disturbing and obsessional behaviour.

You also started your absurd contribution saying you purchased a house in Dublin, have you conveniently forgotten that 🤔 I couldn't care less were you live but do suspect it's near cuckoo land .

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913152#Comment_118913152

As usual. Very disingenuous from the same posters. I am struggling to see why you bother sitting on here all day telling lies?

Next time you accuse someone of comments about rural Ireland, at least have the cop on to know if they do or don't live in rural Ireland before you lie about it.

Embarrassing carry on

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913167#Comment_118913167

You've just made an arse of yourself and I'm disingenuous, Seriously 🙄 how do you honestly expect anyone to have a reasoned discussion with you 🤔

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118912963#Comment_118912963

I am sure that something can be done by way of grants etc., subject, of course, to the VAT receipts being produced.

Beasty

brokenangel and Dempo1 - quit the bickering

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118912997#Comment_118912997

That is the funniest post of the day.

Sustainable way of life = stop cutting turf for commercial sale!!!!!

Some of the crying on this thread for turf-sellers is pretty disingenuous. All of the wailing to date was about those with turbary rights being denied the right to cut turf for themselves. Once that right was protected, the real wailing started about them being denied the right to profit from it. Seems the grubby hands of rural gombeen Ireland never went away.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913263#Comment_118913263

Many people who buy turf are elderly, people unable to save turf themselves. Carry on, expect a backlash!

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913282#Comment_118913282

You asked for the Greens to provide "sustainable ways of life" which by banning turf cutting is doing exactly that. Cutting turf was and never will be sustainable.

How many elderly people burn turf? do you have numbers or anything to back up this claim?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913317#Comment_118913317

Tone deaf from the govt as usual. Carry on!

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913282#Comment_118913282

You are correct but just to mention it's not just elderly customers. The Greens bizzarely and presumably because of their lack of any understanding of rural Ireland, don't get that not every rural home owner has Turbary rights or ownership of Turf plots, the vast, vast majority purchase it directly from local private bog owners who will now , essentially be stopped from selling Turf to thousands of customers, completely dependent on Turf to heat their homes.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913167#Comment_118913167

Maybe start honest queries and respond to people in kind who respond to you. All you seem to be doing is picking holes and if they dont bear any fruit, moving on to the next.

"As usual. Very disingenuous of the same posters".

What's the phrase about 'if you think everyone else in the room...'?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913317#Comment_118913317

When the alternative is gas or oil, if they can afford it, how sustainable are they? It seems the greens only have new ideas about how to make things more difficult rather than provide alternatives. Maybe ensure there's a viable alternative before knocking turf on the head? A wind farm ran on Eamon's hot air?

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913263#Comment_118913263

"Seems the grubby hands of rural gombeen Ireland never went away."

😶🤨

Really?

Christ.

"Rural Gombeen Ireland" don't all have Turbary rights. In fact it would be a small percentage. How are the elderly couples, the physically challenged or others supposed to heat their homes?

This reeks of somebody who fell asleep in the middle of reading up about it. I mean, it has already been altered once today, and I bet it will be altered at least another two times by the end of the week. Fools putting this through. Absolute fools.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913596#Comment_118913596

It just astonishing the Greens didn't check some actual facts on Turbary rights and the low percentage of rural dwellers who have them, they are absolutely clueless on what this means and at a time there's already and energy cost crisis.

I see tonight it's been leaked that Fuel allowance will be extended for 3 weeks (worth €99) to those lucky enough to be actually eligible.

Talk also of a Vat Reduction and removal of PSO levy which would be welcome.

Suckit

Ah sher, I'm sure a few people can start to buy Turf from up North while they are getting their alcohol.

On a brighter note, it is now financially viable to travel up North and spend money up there as a necessity thanks to this Government.

Singling out the groups one by one. It doesn't affect everyone, only a few that don't really matter.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913263#Comment_118913263

Seems the grubby hands of rural gombeen Ireland never went away.

Thats lovely.

Watch the gombeenism of Ryan as he tweeks this several times before the month is out.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569132#Comment_118569132

Whatever about the other stuff, what's with FG flipping the lid about Cathal Brugha Barracks? It's an underutilized defence installation that is perfect for a major new resedential development in a part of town that badly needs units. It's not Ozzy Osbourne pissing on the Alamo.

And the rep. doffing his hat to Rathmines residents not wanting social housing, with other FG reps speaking out the other side of their mouth about objectionism. F*ck off out of there with that.

Perhaps the working relationship is bad, and perhaps they may have valid bellyaches on other stuff, but getting precious about Cathal Brugha Barracks so as not to offend Fine Gaelers in Rathmines with social housing sticks in my craw.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913718#Comment_118913718

First they came for the turf-cutters and we said nothing. Another really funny post

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914189#Comment_118914189

Enough is enough. My fuel up €6 a bag in the last few weeks and my oil price doubled .

I will be cutting or buying double amounts of turf this year. I'm part of the working poor who don't qualify for fuel allowances or has a massive salary and pension like the out of touch ministers making these decisions.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914273#Comment_118914273

I hear you and some are just not getting the fact fuel prices have already risen substantially. Some would also have us believe everyone entitled to Fuel allowance and they are absolutely not. The new and immediate fear for me is that turf prices will now go through the roof this season and there is no coincidence in the timing of Eamonn Ryan's announcement, whilst he knows nothing about rural life it doesn't take a genius to know, cutting starts in the next few weeks.

Dempo1

So Tony as predicted Blaming lack of Support from Taoiseach for his reason not to take up his own makey uppy position, The Taoiseachs , "Correct Decision" to pause this nonsense was almost immediately supported by Leo Varadkar and oddly that seems to have escaped Tony, come Saturday morning pretty much everyone in FFG and opposition were in agreement on the need to pause and Then by Saturday afternoon, Tony announces his Retirement"

Unamed sources within health system claimed he was humiliated 🤔, I presume they are DOH employees and not getting the embarrassment is actually the Stunt that was proposed

Tony throwing his toys out of the pram and blaming lack of support from Taoiseach is simply pathetic, Both he and Watt were caught out, I suspect his petulance is perhaps more about preparing his Memoirs.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tony-holohan-decided-not-to-take-tcd-job-due-to-lack-of-support-from-taoiseach-41543898.html

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914293#Comment_118914293

Definitely well timed. I'm lucky enough as we have a family plot where we all cut. It's just hard to get the time with work. It's unbelievable how far out of touch these ministers are with ordinary working people.

People around me were steadily moving over to smokeless fuel but since the fuel hikes there has been a strong rush for stocking up on the cheap smokey coal. People are just not going to afford to comply with these stupid regulations made up by clueless ministers.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914309#Comment_118914309

Delighted your family have the plot so you should be OK re contining drawing Turf, I'm not so lucky have to purchase my turf, pay for footing etc, so I'm expecting serious price increase now, prices had risen already. I agree completely with your sentiments 👍😉

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914309#Comment_118914309

They are not stupid regulations made up by clueless Ministers.

It has been clear for at least the last decade that measures like these were in the pipeline. There is a climate crisis in case you noticed and everyone who thought for at least a minute about it would realise that fossil fuel prices were only going to go up and up. Only the timing of those increases was in doubt.

Pussyhands

Great that FFG have found the money tree they said didn't exist.

Billions plucked out of nowhere.

I have to laugh at the artists basic income thing. All the lefties are thinking this is some kind of Universal Basic Income trial run. I can assure you it is not. It's just a subsidy for artists to allow them to waste their time on something that no one is willing to pay money for.

You can't do a UBI trial with just a group of people living amongst people who are not. Of course this "trial" will be good because taxpayers are giving them free money.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914541#Comment_118914541

They are stupid if they arbitrarily remove a citizens ability to heat their home with little or no notice & without thinking is it possible those said citizens don't have access to a secondary heat source, its also utterly stupid if the policy ends up forcing a citizen to move from a solid fuel to Oil consumption and even more stupid at a time, oil prices going through the roof and this aside from the alledged green agenda, this time round, Ryan using the health narrative in a pathetic attempt to justify this nonsense.

Pussyhands

I have said it before but I'll say it again. The Greens are the worst of the lot. We know what FF and FG are like when they have power and what do the Greens do? They bend over to give them all the power. If the Greens didn't go into government then FF and FG wouldn't be in. The Greens are enablers.

3 years can't come quick enough. Who in their right mind would vote for the Greens?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914579#Comment_118914579

Little or no notice?

This has been coming for a decade at least. Anyone who didn't see this coming had their head in the sand.

Anyone who moves from a solid fuel to oil consumption is only delaying the inevitable. I drive a hybrid, have the house insulated, with solar panels, all part of preparation for this day over the last half-decade. I don't claim to be particularly far-sighted so if I could see this coming, anyone could.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914573#Comment_118914573

why are artists wasting their time, and have people stopped paying for their art?

many ubi trials have been conducted around the world, some deemed successful, and others inconclusive, but i think the time has come to implement such policies, but this cannot be solely funded from taxation alone, particularly by increasing taxes on the many, we clearly have to start taxing wealth much more, and we also need to become more reliant on public money supplies

what free money are they getting? the only time money becomes free is when the debts its based on are forgiven or defaulted upon!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914597#Comment_118914597

the greens are my de facto number one, and im sure im not alone

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914597#Comment_118914597

The Greens annoy many people in the electorate because they don't just look at doing what is needed to be re-elected. They look at making changes to make the country better in the longer-term. Banning turf-cutting is just one example of this.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914610#Comment_118914610

LOL, no it wasn't , Commercial Turf harvesting ban was and has happened, this latest nonsense stops ordinary citizens that don't have Tarbary rights (the vast majority in rural Ireland) from purchasing their main source of fuel to heat their homes.

As my primary school teacher used to say

"You must try harder"

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914734#Comment_118914734

That doesn't take away from my point that this was coming.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914741#Comment_118914741

So was the Lord, Blanch 😁

So let's say your correct (and your not) , what exactly has government done to prepare folks for this, barely a month has passed since retro fitting supports announced, as of last week, 2, yes 2 companies fully approved to undertake the work, obviously more to come. The costs involved, the practicalities involved, throw in cost of living crisis, equals a mess in my book 😉

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914668#Comment_118914668

The greens don't annoy me, they amuse and at times irratate me.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914774#Comment_118914774

Government doesn't have to make good on every decision, otherwise change would never come. When income tax was first introduced, they didn't offer an immediate rebate.

However, I am sure that the bleating will lead to an extension of the Turf Cutters Compensation Scheme, as handouts are always desired.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914658#Comment_118914658

many ubi trials have been conducted around the world, some deemed successful,

No they havent - none of those UBI trials are valid because in all of them it was done on a small subset of the population - therefore it wasnt universal basic income, just basic income. UBI doesnt work because its inherently inflationary in nature. A normal basic income might work for some, as its just another form of social welfare with no income limits.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914816#Comment_118914816

A, so government doesn't have to make good on every promise deflection 🤔 and that excuses this nonsense 🤔

I think not 😉

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914828#Comment_118914828

like anything in life, it all depends on the way you see it, yes some deem all ubi trials as a success, and others would deem them a completely failure, it ultimately comes down to what side of the fence you re biased to......

so in your definition, its only universal if all citizens receive it, so how are trials suppose to occur, if we cannot or will not do this?

once again, we have been experiencing little to no inflation globally for decades, while at the same time experiencing the largest growth in the global money supply in human history, now how is that possible?

inflation only turned up when there was significant disruption to global supply chains, including global energy supply chains, so maybe current inflationary pressures are more to do with these complexities, rather than the money supply, maybe?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914902#Comment_118914902

For it to be a universal basic income and to fully determine whether it would work or not, you would have to trial it on an entire population - country, island, region etc in order to determine the economic side effects and whether or not it would simply push up prices, due to extra supply. Not to mention the impact it could have on undesirable jobs that people would rather just not go anymore.

Anyways in relation to current govt, their proposed trial is nowhere close to a UBI. For starters, it doesnt even apply universally to artists - they pick and choose who they deem acceptable for it!

As for the inflation argument, its slightly OT but it is false to say we havent seen inflation until supply chain disruptions. Housing and asset inflation has been occurring for the last 7/8 years at this stage - that was inflation driven by money supply and an inelastic supply of goods (houses/stocks).

The more elastic food supply chains were OK, also peoples consumptions didnt massively increase with money - the food inflation is due to supply side constrictions (droughts, supply chain disruptions, fertiliser prices). More money does lead to inflation, it depends where the money goes (to investors or the public) and what they try and spend it on.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914933#Comment_118914933

i completely agree with you here, lets try this universally then! economic experiments as such are extremely difficult to determine if successful or not, possible outcomes are simply impossible to determine, but targeting such trials make sense, as theres clearly sectors of society that simply have no benefitted from modern economics, many have simply been crushed, but society and the economy still actually require them to be

again, id agree with you, it might be best to trial this with most if not all artists, as most are probably struggling anyway, pup has shown us how successful such polices can be, i.e. by giving sections of society money to spend, this directly benefits these individuals and the economy at large, as this money is spent into the economy, keeping businesses supplied with money(liquidity), and therefore creating jobs etc...

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914902#Comment_118914902

I'm intrigued by this Artists Basic income gaurentee. Neutral in some respects but have to wonder why exactly and does it not raise all sorts of questions as to why someone who's worked for years, paid taxes etc, made redundant and gets €208 pw and a defined period without means test.

Does it also beg the Question on government essentially admitting Jobseekers payments are too low, particularly in the context of the current cost of living crisis.

Is personally welcome a UBI.

What I don't get with this move is were the €325 figure came from, would it not have been more practical to for example permit Artists claim a spefic SW payment equal to that of others and perhaps remove the means test and must be seeking work requirement and also permit some earnings, like was done for self employed who were on PUP.

I'm not critical generally of the move, just curious were they came up with this amount.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914933#Comment_118914933

apologies, just seen your message extension now, yes you are correct, inflation has only truly turned up in asset prices, this was the intent of modern political and economic ideologies and their policies, but this type of inflation is generally not included in debates regarding inflation, we re now experiencing the collapse of these ideologies, and to add insult to injury, now general inflation has also turned up, i.e. we is in trouble!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915007#Comment_118915007

interested to know the answer to some of your questions also, but i suspect some of the figures have indeed come post pup, and yes, i do interpret these figures as an admittance that welfare is currently too low

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914541#Comment_118914541

I stand by my accusation. Listening to rte this morning. 500 refugees expected every week now. Solution is mainly to reinstate and refurbish empty dwellings. Sweet jesus what a joke, do people actually realise how long this is going to take. Totally clueless.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914573#Comment_118914573

FFG have been abusing magical money trees for decades. Hence we have a massive national debt.

€47,000 for every man, woman and child. It is one of the highest in the world on a per capita basis.

It will come back to haunt us.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915253#Comment_118915253

Why wasn't the Minister doing this for the homeless folk in the country, why does it take possible international embarrassment for the Minister to do something?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118912997#Comment_118912997

The timing of the announcement is terrible. I know it's been flagged for many years but why bring it up during a cost of living and energy crisis?

I think Ryan likes to agitate people on purpose.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915253#Comment_118915253

https://streamff.com/v/bca8ef