FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985443#Comment_118985443

Now maybe I am missing something here

Yes. Eamon said there was a turf ban coming, varadkar said it was being paused. Ryan said it wasn't, it was going ahead. Then he said he meant to put 'draft' on it. I honestly don't know how you missed all of this. Its been the heart of the story as much as the ban itself.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985455#Comment_118985455

Are you actually trying to compare water to turf? F**king hilarious 😂

I really have heard it all now on this thread

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985492#Comment_118985492

We have too 😂

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985492#Comment_118985492

Not at all, you mentioned they "Wanted" just clarifying what they want and what they get are two very different things 😉

What you've heard, yet again, is in your head

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985489#Comment_118985489

But will lesson's be Learned 🤔This is the Big perplexing question 😁

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985489#Comment_118985489

How I missed your description? Well for starters it’s completely incorrect but you know that, if I hope you do

Anyway as usual you failed to contradict anything I posted so I’m right, thank you 👍

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985574#Comment_118985574

I wasn't trying to contradict you. You claimed not to know what the deal was and I told you the time line exactly as it happened.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985588#Comment_118985588

No I didn’t, I said maybe I was missing something and clearly I’m not…

Unless you also want to try compare turf to water?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985633#Comment_118985633

Well you missed everything I pointed out.

I believe the point was they were both plans they thought people would swallow. Thankfully they never set up another quango and gave their friends jobs.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985359#Comment_118985359

I think nobody in either FG or FF thought the greens would be so daft as to attempt it. Either that or they are so pissed off with the greens on LNG etc. that they were happy to let the off and watch the roasting. I don`t believe the response or the "Not intended" BS either. Nothing but an attempted ass-covering exercise.

When you see the likes Patricia McKenna`s reaction to the granting of licenses for gold and silver exploration, my guess would be that there is a cabal within their hierarchy, similar to Ryan that know s f a about rural politics, that are calling the shots without consulting anyone. The reaction of some of their representative showed as much. They were as flummoxed as everyone else.

That T.D. representing Carlow-Kilkenny is Malcolm Noonan. He spent 20 years as an environmental activist with Friends of the Earth, so most likely in the same stables as Ryan when it comes to his knowledge of anything rural.They have a history on turf as well being the cheerleaders for the recent closure of peat burning plants.

Comically today the bold Malcolm tweeted thanking the leaders of farming organisations for meeting him to discuss protected areas. A day late and a dollar short there Malcolm.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985681#Comment_118985681

"As Blackadder would say"

Plans So Cunning you could put an S infront and call them Scatterbrained 😏

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985719#Comment_118985719

That's the chap, couldn’t think of his name, I have the Delightful Pippa Hackett in my constituency, Lady Pippa as she's known, absolutely clueless, she actually said the PQ response was misleading, with friends like that, who needs enemies 😁

Cluedo Monopoly

https://twitter.com/olivercallan/status/1519246913907961858

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985847#Comment_118985847

Thats the thing. FF/FG have normalised all the crises.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985847#Comment_118985847

Katie Hannon played an exchange from the Dail last night, a listener Texted in

"Please tell me that was Callan's Kicks" 😁

Dempo1

Hillarious, FG and Greens at each others throats on the Late Debate. Who needs an opposition 😁

Greens insisting Ban going Ahead

FG, "Only if its agreed by the whole of Government"

FF (MM) There's no plan to ban turf this year.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985443#Comment_118985443

I`ll let you in on something that is not really much of a secret, but like everything else has gone over your head.

After both the FF & FG parliamentary parties tore Ryan a new one the discussion is over. His ramblings on communities of under 500 gifting and selling turf legally where those over 500 would be liable for prosecution will be filed away in that cupboard along with the promised referendum on water, never to see the light of day and avoided like the plague.

All that`s left for Ryan is a choice of reversing out of government and face a slaughter at the polls, or run away from the whole debacle and hope people forget by the time the next GE comes around. Neither great choices, but that is where idiotic ideology has left him.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986107#Comment_118986107

I`ll let you in on something that is not really much of a secret, but like everything else has gone over your head.

Every post has a personal comment.....

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986091#Comment_118986091

That was funny. Both Greens and FF seem to be blaming FG for letting this issue get out of hand. They're not happy with how Ryan was treated at the FG TD meeting. It sounds like it was quite vulgar. Is there any honour left in FG?

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985284#Comment_118985284

Perhaps Varadkar is considered the equivalent of a political dead man walking. Would Martin have had the guts to do this if Varadkar was going to become taoiseach in December?

Regards...jmcc

Richard Hillman

I can't see the government lasting the end of the year. Most people don't pay attention to politics but they pay attention to their bills and fuel prices. So when it kicks in, hell to pay.

Then you have another one that has gone under the radar over the last couple of days, 6000 student accommodation units to Ukrainian refugees over the summer, as if the war will be over by September. Maybe they can rent in many of the cities rental units.....oh wait....

So you have wizzed off workers commuting, rents skyrocketing, food prices skyrocketing, no accommodation for students in September, energy costs sky rocketing and an incumbent Taoiseach with a file against him with the DPP.

The future is bright.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986133#Comment_118986133

Nothing personal. Just a statement of fact very easily seen by anyone reading your post.

Did you miss the reports of Ryan being gutted yesterday by his coalition partners parliamentary members who make up 73 of the present government seats compared to the greens 12, or do you somehow believe that the green party can just pass laws for whatever they wish all on their ownio ?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986323#Comment_118986323

I imagine Martin is going to walk as FF leader after the handover as he knows he will get the heave otherwise and he wanted to leave Varadkar a parting gift.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986409#Comment_118986409

Martin has been as much a disaster for FF as Varadkar has been for FG. FF should have easily won more seats in the 2020 GE except for Martin's inner wannabe FGer bubbling to the top in supporting Charlie Flanagan/FG's commemoration of the Black and Tans/RIC. The destruction of FF's unique identity began with the C&S agreement with FG in 2016 when FF supported FG but didn't get any mercs and percs. Now, voters can no longer tell the difference between FF and FG and SF is the most popular party in the opinion polls. Martin is the FF equivalent of Eamon Gilmore. Labour could could have been the largest Left of centre party had it stayed out of government in 2011 but Gilmore and the other pension tourists were too greedy. Labour went from 37 seats to 7 seats in one General Election cycle. This turf war might be FF's Water Tax battle because it will have to decide whether to support the ban or walk from government.

Regards...jmcc

Brucie Bonus

IMO, Martin has taken enough smug undermining from Varadkar and may possibly walk at or close to his end of term. It would be the perfect two fingers and FF could pretend it was because of all the scandals and suspected criminality etc. which would enable FF save some face before election time.

It would be the smart move.

Can't see a cute hoor FF'er playing second fiddle to FG for 'stability' if Martin simply retires.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986597#Comment_118986597

FF, I think, is also weak in some urban areas such as Dublin. It really needed to get well ahead of SF and FG but it really screwed up in the 2020 GE. That comment from Barry Cowen was interesting. The Turf War will have a greater effect on FF's older rural support. It would not be surprising to see FF walk and Martin not even make it to December. The danger for FF, and FG, is that if SF's vote reflects its opinion poll ratings, then a lot of seats that were won on SF transfers in 2020 may be SF seats after the next GE. There is also the very real risk of FF and FG candidates fratriciding because the electorate consider them to be much the same party or, in simpler terms, the Not-SF candidates. Fratriciding is when a party has enough votes for a seat between two candidates and the candidates knock each other out in the same count allowing a candidate who was marginally ahead of both in that count to win the seat. This happened with FG in Waterford where it had a Waterford City candidate and a rural/Dungarvan candidate. The two FG candidates fratricided and a Green candidate unexpectedly won the seat.

FG would have easily won a seat in Waterford had it run a single candidate but FG's candidate selection strategy was decided before Charlie Flanagan decided to go commemorate the Black and Tans/RIC. The last polls before Christmas 2019 showed FG doing quite well. Support for FG and for FF almost collapsed coming up to the GE in 2020.

FF really needs to separate itself from FG in the minds of the voters and this Turf War may actually be a good one considering FF's the age and geographical demographics of FF's support. The problem with FF is who replaces Martin. There seems to be one faction that supports Jim O'Callaghan but FF's performance in the DBS bye-election (5%) may have scared FF and if that level of support was extrapolated to a GE, then O'Callaghan's seat would be history. It probably will not as a GE has very different dynamics to a bye-election and it may be that Ivana Bacik will lose her seat as old party voting patterns reemerge. There was some signalling from Donohoe/FG before Christmas that he worked well with Michael McGrath/FF. They could be the replacement leaders. However, the war in Ukraine, the housing crisis and the fuel crisis are still going to cause problems for this government and potentially for FF/FG/Greens in the upcoming GE.

Regards...jmcc

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986612#Comment_118986612

Good analysis. I don't think FF and FG can separate themselves in the minds of the voter anymore. C&S and 3 more years of this coalition will cement the perception that they are 2 sides of the same coin. I believe there is a major recession looming too and the national debt FFG built up over the last 20 years will come back to haunt us.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986913#Comment_118986913

"2 sides of the same coin" A perception that only Sinn Fein supporters are pushing and nobody else......it seems that you think if you say it enough times someone might believe it

Good analysis? it is just another ramble from a Sinn Fein supporters with no idea what is actually going on in the country at the moment, this thread is full of chat about "turf" which 5% of the country use to heat a house and 23% use. The maths in Sinn Fein supporters hasn't got any better since the last election. Most people don't give a sh*t and the majority of younger voters who are building houses in the countryside don't even have a fire. Again proves the information above is totally incorrect.

FF before the last election came out and said they would ban all smokey fuels including turf. 😂 now we are having predictions that FF banning turf will be hurtful in the next election.

Check out online about a certain "landlord", that is what everyone is discussing.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986952#Comment_118986952

You seem angry but I know that you know I am not a Sinn Fein supporter. You know it and yet you cannot help yourself labelling people that do support FFG as such. Interesting mindset. Simple default response. I'll be a bot next. Carry on...

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986979#Comment_118986979

Angry? why would I be angry?

I just pointed out some glaring issues on what you described as "Good analysis"

Next time if you want to response at least discuss the topic instead of having a go at the poster. I doubt it will happen but just some friendly advice.

P.S. Please except my humble apology for thinking you are a SF supporter....

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986952#Comment_118986952

The average man on the street sees no difference between ff and fg anymore imho. Most people think all parties/politicians are sides of some multi sided coin actually.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986979#Comment_118986979

Even better Analysis 😁

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987052#Comment_118987052

Ok yeah...until the next time right 😂

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987078#Comment_118987078

Of course that is a flippant comment, they all fell from the same tree etc. But the desperation of some supporters to now say FF and FG are the same is hilarious. Just reading policies etc they have different opinions on most topics. It's almost as if they want to try and push that agenda forward for the benefit of other parties.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987203#Comment_118987203

Whats the difference between FF and FG?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987296#Comment_118987296

I suggest you read the policies....

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984292#Comment_118984292

Well, when you actually read it, you realise that compared to the rest of the world, we actually have it quite good in relation to housing here.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986952#Comment_118986952

"2 sides of the same coin" A perception that only Sinn Fein supporters are pushing and nobody else.....

I've been hearing 'two cheeks of the same arse' for decades. Back when SF were 4 or 5 %.

This obsession with SF is part of the problem. Ignoring the issues facing the public to attack the boogeyman. Easier than actually fixing things.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986439#Comment_118986439

What Martin and FF which include the Republic party as part of their moniker thought they were doing by not going after Flanagan/FG bald headed on the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration is bewildering. Their core vote would have seen them then as the rightful claimants to being the Republican party rather than S,F but in one fell swoop they blew that.

They didn`t expect to do anywhere near as well as they did in the 2016 GE and were expecting to still be in opposition afterwards. They did not expect the total collapse of Labour and were looking to 2020 for their big comeback. They were caught between two stools and choose the option that neither left them in the tent or the ability to piss into it. They would have been as well off then going into coalition with FG because they looked in the eyes of the voters as FG`s coalition partners anyway. Especially after the commemoration fiasco. They just seemed to be enthralled by Martin taking the job as leader in 2011 when nobody else wanted it, and with them doing much better than they expected in 2016 just unquestioningly letting him have a free hand which that really came back to bite them 2020.

Labour just sold their souls for cabinet seats in 2011, and then added to it by allowing Kelly to take over from Hogan on water charges. Like FF and the commemorations what they thought that would achieve is a mystery.

There are a lot of green supporters who are attempting to play down any comparison between this turf war and the water charges war, but I believe that is because they see the turf war as FF`s water charges moment with them being the most likely party to walk over it. If FF do not see it the same then imo they are being very foolish. FG are going to have problems as well if the greens attempt to push through legislation. The ideal solution for both would be to fudge it with a free vote because if push comes to shove and they employ the whips, then not only will both have defections, the government will in all likelihood collapse.

If turf is the only rock the greens polling within the margin of error believe they could die on then they would be sadly mistaken. There is a hillside covered in them where in a GE campaign, as being part of a government, they would have a lot more serious questions to answer than last time out where they slipped in unnoticed mainly due to SF not running enough candidates.

In the world of realpolitik it is in all threes interest to fill this away in a cupboard and forget about it.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987369#Comment_118987369

I have and I cannot find any difference. If you know of any differences between the parties please enlighten us all.

Cluedo Monopoly

Emotional scenes in the Dail. I feel somewhat sorry for Ryan. His coalition partners have betrayed him. I don't see it bringing down the government though.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987849#Comment_118987849

Is there Tears 🤔

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987740#Comment_118987740

Tell you what as you seem to have the time. Can you tell me what ones are the same? please enlighten us?

The values of both parties seem different

https://www.fiannafail.ie/our-party#our-values

https://www.finegael.ie/the-party/our-values/

Dempo1

This will be Drop kicked to Europe who FFG can blame 🤔 even if EU support a Ban on the sale and burning of Turf (They will of course) it won't wash with those impacted until viable alternatives are in place.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987858#Comment_118987858

Values are not policies. They are just spoof. I laughed out loud at this one.

Integrity: Fine Gael believes in being truthful and courageous in what we do, and in promoting and upholding both the rights and the responsibilities of people. This means ensuring all of us live up to our responsibilities as well as enjoying our rights as Irish men and women.

So...did the following FG politicians miss the memo? Alan Whiplash Farrell? Dara Murphy? Michelle Mulherin? Hugh McElvaney? Maria Bailey? Fidelma Healy Eames? James Reilly? Phil Hogan? John Perry? Crony Coveney? Leo?

Does Integrity essentially equate to gorging in the trough for FG politicians?

New Politics?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987740#Comment_118987740

And tell Leo and Micheal.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987916#Comment_118987916

You should contact FG and ask them. I have no idea.

I didn't say values are policies. I clearly posted the values seem different, are you saying they are not?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988466#Comment_118988466

You're a slippery eel BA 😂

So do you agree that those Fine Gael politicians I listed are not living their values?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988718#Comment_118988718

It's just a spurge of TD's, I didn't even read the full list. Maria Bailey is no longer even in FG is she? I am sure some of the others are probably gone as well.....

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988718#Comment_118988718

Take a screen shot. That list will be deleted like 'new politics' and O'Duffy.