FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Dempo1 · 10-06-2022 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186164#Comment_119186164

A i see, the plot indeed thickens 😁

10-06-2022 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182892#Comment_119182892

At no point have i said i dont want to fund the defence forces,so park yous wee strawman arguements...there is more than enough money in the state to fund everything,but liberials prefer to attack the poor,than tax rich and corporate interests

If the 26 counties have a progressive tax regime,how is it, that wealth inequality increases year on year,and we can give tax breaks to forgien companies to buy up housing and extort money from natives,leaving us with among highest rates of people stuck living at home,and a collaspibg birthrate as people cant afford to have kids....pretty damning indictment of this progressove tax system yous like to rub yourself off on

At no point have i mentioned reds under bed,you have a habit of strawmanning when out of your depth....but the comparisons around the slow collapse of liberialism and communism are pretty strong.....tell us again how this is a tale of reds under bed,pretty bad look,if you cant

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 7:41am

FFFG won't be best pleased with this mornings headlines, Eaomon Ryan gets a mention, FF strokes too, Delays in planning and Paschal Donohoe suddenly concerned about the cost of government borrowing, on going Health service and cost of living crisis feature prominently, in essence no good news at all.

My pick of the day,, particularly the Headline.

Anyone that seriously believes Leo can turn things around for FG at this stage is quite deluded IMO

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2022/06/11/unhappiness-at-the-heart-of-fine-gael/

Irelandsnumberone · 11-06-2022 8:17am

https://twitter.com/RobertTroyTD/status/1534937061697912835?t=oZhQcpOqhKaLkv_yPVmmOg&s=19

Has he forgot he is part of the Govt?

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 8:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186946#Comment_119186946

A, the ever coherent Robert Troy, he'd forget what day it is. Bizzare individual, had occasion to "Try" and deal with him when I worked in mullingar a few year back, great man for the Talk albeit I never could quite understand what he was waffling on about 🤔

11-06-2022 10:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186891#Comment_119186891

Their holding local meetings on gender identity issues,like fair play and all to those whom are trans,but its 0.5% segment of population and outside of internet echo chambers is kind of not cared about

(Free and proper healthcare would settle 99% issues there)

SF walked into that particular trap of fringe identity politics and got utter battered at local,euro and presidenetial elections,resulting in a somewhat fraught EGM,where mcdonald had to face rebuke from membership and concentrate on developing policies to improve peoples lives

(could be argued a sign of good leadership is to take constructive critism on board,even your most delusional fg will admit a varadkar has a thin skin to critism)

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187193#Comment_119187193

If you've the stomach, listen back to two days of utter tripe on the live line, possibly the most incoherent nonsense ever broadcast on National radio, you guessed it, the Woke crowd out in force, Trans being offended, Militants on both side of the argument, it was bewildering stuff.

Meanwhile the "Caller Led" show ignoring with Gusto the day to day and worsening situation affecting people's lives. Earlier in the week Duffy attempts (and fails) to Drag Don McLeans up coming concert into the gun violence debate and when failing to push his narrative, obliterates McClean in one of the most vicious character assisnations of a person I've ever heard on Radio, anywhere.

RTE current affairs desperate to Cover anything other than what affects people's daily lives.

Wanderer78 · 11-06-2022 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187193#Comment_119187193

no such thing as free health care, but free at the point of entry is most certainly the way to go, but a significant rise in public debt, and probably taxation after the fact, is the most likely only solution to create this urgent need

11-06-2022 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187255#Comment_119187255

Healthcare should to my eyes be a human right and noone should be paying for it,rich or poor

The savings to be had,by early diagonises and interventions in serious illnesses should outweigh any preceived "cost" increases

Wanderer78 · 11-06-2022 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187273#Comment_119187273

yes i completely agree, but it cannot be created 'freely' without money, and lots of it, and the only way to do that is to increase debt and taxes, period! we still dont want to have this adult conversation!

11-06-2022 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187224#Comment_119187224

I think let them at it,but it is a very much a fringe issue,which could be sorted at stroke of pen,but the government prefer,like housing,to let it fester as it deosnt affect their base

The gun violence debate is a red herring,noone rational could think its ok whats going on,the people that will bring in gun restrictions in america,are already born and going through schools......this thing of really old people clinging to power for decades is about to reach its natural conclusion,and politically america will go through a huge upheavel over next 10 years

Wanderer78 · 11-06-2022 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187298#Comment_119187298

i suspect we re all already on that train, we re all now virtually experiencing political, economic and social upheaval, i.e. it has begun!

11-06-2022 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187286#Comment_119187286

Increase them,the cost increases will likely be offset by earlier interventions imo

Its like haughey with the free travel,is something needs doing,governments &older generations,need get on with running the country and stop looking for excuses to not do their job

Wanderer78 · 11-06-2022 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187309#Comment_119187309

unfortunately, this is where we re at, the health system needs a vast investment program, along side a deep gutting to, do the gutting first, and you ll find us fcuked even more, and very quickly!

Suckit · 11-06-2022 12:06pm

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/old-style-fianna-fail-stroke-as-last-minute-law-change-allows-big-parties-to-raise-millions-41742135.html

A new law will allow the big political parties, like Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, to raise millions in funding between elections.

The last-minute change to new legislation, supposedly reforming the political system, has been described as a “good old-style Fianna Fáil stroke”.

🙄

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187571#Comment_119187571

Yep saw that 🙄 that smirk might not be so evident shortly , so to speak 😏

Suckit · 11-06-2022 12:46pm

These type of last minute law changes really show the things that are important to them.

Cluedo Monopoly · 11-06-2022 1:37pm

Thomas Byrne (FF) getting a roasting on Katie Hannon now.

I am a little worried now that the government will not go full term. The budget and winter costs will make things very difficult. It's important they reap what they sowed.

Cluedo Monopoly · 11-06-2022 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187571#Comment_119187571

Yep more New Politics lies. All talk but the genes are rotten to the core.

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187897#Comment_119187897

It's delightful to watch 😏 he's all over the place .

Got to laugh (maybe cry) over the retro scheme farce. Refused to answer how many will be completed this year, went straight to the Fuel Allowance deflection, not only are government struggling to appoint companies to do retro fitting , I'd wager with costs spiralling few will be completed this year and those that are are being privately funded.

By the time they actually started retrofitting through grant Aid, The grant will cover a tiny percentage of cost , the way things are going.

#shambles

Brucie Bonus · 11-06-2022 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187571#Comment_119187571

TBF, it wouldn't effect FG as it's only the big parties.

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187926#Comment_119187926

That's a low Blow 🤣

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 1:53pm

Here we go, Heather Humphries cart before the Cart announcement re use of working Hubs during the week , legislation not even passed with regard to remote working entitlements 🙄

Cluedo Monopoly · 11-06-2022 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187920#Comment_119187920

I said it way back - the retrofit plan was broken long before it was announced. The Climate Action plan has already failed. Incompetence.

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187955#Comment_119187955

Beggar's belief really, I've got to wonder do FG TD's and Senators do any prep before appearing on live TV/Radio shows , I know Colm Brohy even after checking facts still manages to embarrass himself but my god there's been some dreadful performances from numerous FG people recently.

11-06-2022 5:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187736#Comment_119187736

Imagine if they even put 1% as much effort into improving peoples lives here

They dont serve anyone,their interest is self-interest

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188746#Comment_119188746

On the Ukrainian refugee thread the sense of frustration and anger growing, I personally agree with some levels of support but my god what's going on whilst the Country in a mess is just beggar's belief at this stage.

Brucie Bonus · 11-06-2022 5:54pm

They've shown for many decades to be reactive, even when given plenty of warning. They ignore specialist advice if it doesn't suit them. However they seem very on the ball when taking advantage of loose regulations and looking after their own.

Suckit · 11-06-2022 7:23pm

I wonder will McEntee give these Amnesty "but it's not amnesty" - MM, or will she wait to be told what to do. They were offered the option and chose to stay illegal, or maybe even arrived after the amnesty (not amnesty) bullcrap was announced.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/searches-in-co-meath-discover-significant-number-in-ireland-illegally-1318489.html

Probably more lessons will need to be learned after this 🙄

Dempo1 · 11-06-2022 8:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189518#Comment_119189518

I do hope the location was not at a certain Snack food park (no disrespect intended to its late founder)

skimpydoo · 11-06-2022 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187571#Comment_119187571

What will they do with all this money? It won't help get them re elected.

jmcc · 11-06-2022 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190024#Comment_119190024

The Local and Euro Elections are coming up and FF is currently the largest party at LE level. FF and FG might be able to afford the services of some good Social Media people if they had more money. The parties also need to run better PR operations now that the media landscape has changed. Running for political office is not cheap and FF and FG need to be able to subsidise those campaigns if they want to attract new candidates.

Some of the newer legislation against political donations has caused problems for some politicians. The surprising thing is that people still expected better of FF/FG.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc · 12-06-2022 12:45am

Sunday Times B&A poll has FF at 22%, FG at 23% and SF at 37%. It uses face to face polling so it is typically more favourable to FF than online polls. FF's real support level lies between the RedC% and the B&A %.

Regards...jmcc

skimpydoo · 12-06-2022 1:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190516#Comment_119190516

Not looking good for FF and FG unless they get into bed again after the next election.

Gant21 · 12-06-2022 1:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190545#Comment_119190545

Of course they will and the Green Party will be the double adapter.

jmcc · 12-06-2022 1:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190545#Comment_119190545

And there were reports of discontent within FG earlier in the week. Going in with FG was a bit of a Faustian pact for FF and it needs to reassert its independent identity. Barry Cowen's motion did seem to understand that issue but the biggest problem for FF is that Martin is more of an FGer than an FFer and probably wants to maintain the coalition until at least the next FG leader takes over. The flashpoint could be the budget in October where FFers more concerned with their re-election prospects could, possibly, vote against it. It wouldn't be so much a stab in the back for FG as a complete evisceration but the political benefits for FF would far outweigh the temporary flak it would get from the Dublin media. By moving before SF has had time to select and promote candidates for the next GE, it would buy time for FF to survive as a Big Three party and it might, without Martin and his gang grovelling to FG at every opportunity, create an option for an SF/FF (or FF/SF) government.

The problem for FF at the moment is that it may really be two parties: a genuine FF and a wannabe FG element epitomised by Martin who see themselves as being more imporant than the party. It will be interesting to see if Cowen's think-in session becomes the basis for a leadership challenge. It may be possible for FF to change leaders and still have Martin as taoiseach until December. It would be ironic given that that's what Martin did to Cowen's brother, Brian Cowen, so that he could become leader.

FF really only has a narrow window of opportunity to regain its independence from FG before the momentum that has been building for SF pushes its support in the opinion polls over 40%. When that happens, SF is in majority territory and it would be approaching FF/FG's combied polling. SF has already exceeded FF/FG's combined polling in the RedC polls but those are effectively tracking polls due to their use of a panel rather than a random sample. (They may poll the same panel member multiple times within a year.) Cowen's move to have FF attempt to take ownership of the Border Poll is a smart one and one that could cost SF % points if it works. However, the removal of Martin of leader would be necessary for it to work.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc · 12-06-2022 1:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190582#Comment_119190582

Some Green TDs owe their seats to SF transfers. There was also a major propaganda campaign in operation with grimacing Greta Thunberg so a lot of easily influenced voters voted Green as a result. There's no such campaign in operation now and that will impact Green support so that it falls back to its traditional support levels. On those %s, it may hold between 2 and 5 seats. An alternative scenario is that the Greens may take votes from FG.

The main reason that there's an FFG government is because SF ran too few candidates and FG ran too many and FF under Martin and his collaboration and surrender agreement, thought it was FG. (FF could have taken the momentum about the FG Black and Tans/RIC commemoration and turned it into FF votes.) SF could have won a lot more seats in 2020 but it hadn't the candidates to take advantage of the votes. FG ran too many and had its electoral hopes destroyed by neo-Unionists like Charlie Flanagan who wanted to commemorate the Black and Tans/RIC. A competent FG leader would have stopped that. Varadkar has been a disaster for FG and has lost seats for it in every election that FG has contested since he was installed as leader. The big danger for FFG now is that the next GE could see a restoration of a 2.5 party model from the current Big Three model. The thing that will be worrying FF and FG management is which of their parties will end up bieng the the half party.

Regards...jmcc

Brucie Bonus · 12-06-2022 2:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189518#Comment_119189518

Will this be another slave labourer shipped in to work in a chicken factory for 'one of our own' story? Ireland gets more like some county in the deep south, United States. **** Hazzard County.

votecounts · 12-06-2022 2:57am

https://twitter.com/dfatirl/status/794171280262135809

No wonder Charlie and his FG mates wanted an RIC/Black and Tan commemoration when you see who they hang around with, bet Simon Coveney loves seeing Charlie with the scum that tried to kill him.

#NotaNormalParty

Cluedo Monopoly · 12-06-2022 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190585#Comment_119190585

Great post. That's what I am afraid of too - FF pulling the plug early in order to separate themselves from FG in the minds of the voter. It's probably too late for that now anyway. The looming recession might also force the issue but they will get the blame for the state of our finances and services either way. FF will lose seats whether they go now or in 3 years. The question is which will be worse. FG have no options only usual spin.

I don't think Barry Cowen has the brains to launch a coup. He is a dim and bitter person.

Dempo1 · 12-06-2022 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190959#Comment_119190959

It was an excellent post 👌

Barry Cowan, a local TD of mine is an enigma, liked and disliked in equal measure, main base of support, Clara/ Tullamore but I don't believe he ever had the level of support his brother had in Offaly. Barry seems very clicky, surrounds himself with a very small team of supporters and from what I've heard, not a good constituency TD at all, Typically increases his presence locally near election times etc.

Like or Loath Carol Moran, I'm neutral, she's very very active on the ground, regular pop up clinics in villages around Laois Offaly, Brian Stanley to a lesser extent, stays within his power base of Portlaoise, Sean Fleming, missing in action completely and not well regarded, I think he's one that could be in trouble.

Pippa Hackett will be lucky to get a seat on a parish council, has lost the little support she had, reactions to her locally are universally negative, No one messes with Turf in the Midlands, no one 😁

shirrup · 12-06-2022 10:29am

shirrup · 12-06-2022 10:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190642#Comment_119190642

Ah here, FG lads hanging out and having photos taken with terrorists is ok now is it?

Hobnobbing with Orangemen and loyalist terrorists, and putting MI5 agents into the top tier of AGS.

FG are sinister. Very sinister. They need to be removed from power asap.

Cluedo Monopoly · 12-06-2022 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191042#Comment_119191042

Completely OTT post.

I honestly wish everything to do with NI was excluded from this thread. I couldn't give a fiddlers.

shirrup · 12-06-2022 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191187#Comment_119191187

Charley Flanagan is on record of being outspoken on other TDs being pictured with people he has referred as terrorists.

My point, which you seem to have missed is that FG is chock full of hypocritical blatherers.

We'll have to agree to disagree that it's "OTT" Charley Flanagan is a member of the current govt, this thread is about current govt.

Brucie Bonus · 12-06-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190642#Comment_119190642

Its all about laying the fellowship and ground work for teaming up in a UI. Keep the paddy's under heel, look after 'our own'. At least FF aren't as bad in willing to lick the arse of a movement founded on inequality.