FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253524#Comment_119253524

Do you believe that the HSE are right in what they are doing in Navan?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254399#Comment_119254399

I've actually no opinion on the matter but commented on yet another example of political expediency of Stephen Donnelly and another example of who's not in charge.

If you read the post , you'd realise I've not expressed opinion either way on the Navan hospital matter, if I recall the thread is about the FFFG government, of which Stephen Donnelly, is alledged to be a Senior minister,

I've no doubt if you check there's a thread dealing with the Navan hospital, you can check there for opinions on the matter 🤔

Let me throw something back, do you believe Stephen Donnelly has a clue 🤔

Beasty

A number of posts deleted

If you do not wish to discuss the topic then do not post

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254443#Comment_119254443

The reason I ask is that it isn't clear from your post whether you believe the HSE are doing the right thing by holding firm or whether you believe that Stephen Donnelly, as the Minister, is doing the right thing by stepping in and putting the HSE back in its place. If you believe that the A&E in Navan should stay open, then you should be praising Donnelly for stepping in.

As you appear to be criticising Donnelly for interfering, then I take it, you believe, as I do, that the A&E in Navan Hospital should be closed for patient safety reasons and Donnelly should not interfere in operational issues like that. Then again, you may be of the all Government things bad, all SF things good mentality, and have no opinion of your own, so it would be interesting to know what you think, if you think about it beyond the all government bad approach.

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254481#Comment_119254481

The minister for health getting in (ANOTHER) spat with the head of the HSE through the media is ridiculous and disgraceful tbh

The hospital in Navan should not be downgraded currently as the HSE has not provided all assurances. Look what has happened to Limerick with the closure of hospitals around it (Drogheda too)

You actually managed to get SF into your post 😂

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254481#Comment_119254481

Why would you expect me to have an opinion on the HSE here 🤔

I certainly have opinions on the HSE and particularly the DOH as I'm sure you know, particularly its SG.

My point and is a continuation of how we got here re this issue .

A decision dragged on for months

One assumes the Minister of Health is on top of his brief and being kept informed

We then have the spectle of the HSE making an announcement, fluffy interviews with CEO and CCO of the HSE all very dramatic.

Within minutes uproar and especially from local politicians and especially Helen Mc Entee ( who one would assume at least chats with Donnelly on occasion)

We then have the embarrassing further spectle of the Minister for Health intervening, hang on here so to speak, hold your horses HSE.

Silence for week .

Paul Reid announcing HSE plan going ahead with a not so subtle response about Donnelly being unhappy, in essence two fingers to Donnelly.

And finally Donnelly having a Tantrum in response , there is no sanction to proceed etc.

I'd doubt you'd see such behaviour in a primary school play yard , it's astonishing and I again pose the Question, who's in charge 🤔

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254481#Comment_119254481

If there was an 'all government bad approach' this thread would 20 times longer.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254513#Comment_119254513

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254543#Comment_119254543

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254568#Comment_119254568

This is exactly the problem with political debate and it is reflected on here.

Firstly, you guys are all about personalities not policies, to be fair, it reflects the worst of the media out there, so you are only as bad. Secondly, even when you support what a Minister's policy, you find a way to get a dig in.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254869#Comment_119254869

Even when you post about anything you manage to bring SF up.

Suckit

Undermining the MoH seems to be becoming a trend..

skimpydoo

We have a crumbling health service with its health minister is being undermined, this should scare you. Who the actual fook is in charge? It sure isn't something, something SF or something, something, deflection.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254869#Comment_119254869

Didn't you open a thread for a political personality's personal situation to be debated? It's a bit rich and hypocritical to be writing the above.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254869#Comment_119254869

On the contrary, people post about issues, you, like above, turn it on the person posting. The poster criticised Donnelly for seemingly not being on top of his brief. You tried to turn it on the poster. Here you are being critical of posters you disagree with in a bunch like they all consult each other before posting.

I'm off to read all the policies you had issue with on your Violet Ann Wynne thread.....

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254869#Comment_119254869

Sorry Blanch , went to bed and missed your come back regarding Digs , I seem to recall your go to tatic is infact throwing a dig or two and it's abundantly clear you don't want to debate but deflect.

As unfortunate as you think it is, it is about political personalities, TD'S, SENATORS, MINISTERS, political parties FFGG and their performances, Policies and increasingly their behaviour.

Your entitled of course to throw in Opposition Political parties and "Personalities" as you do frequently, others are as equally entitled to respond.

So it's a little perplexing you accuse others of doing exactly what you do , so I can only deduce your contradicting yourself , again 🤔

Good morning 😏

Dempo1

Parish pump Politics in all its glory.

Paywall article but opening Paragraph says it all really.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/helen-mcentees-parish-pump-playact-on-experts-is-unworthy-of-a-cabinet-minister-41792674.html

Dempo1

In other news , Darragh "Game Changer" O Briens shared ownership scheme about to go live.

Scant in detail but seemingly he's targeting assiting 2,000 streched middle income earners purchase homes a year.

Central Bank have made their own observations on this scheme but , whilst open to correction it would seem the cunning plan is for already stretched middle income folks who wouldn't qualify under existing rules , Qualify.

Limitations on value of property so likely most of Dublin excluded.

Government will put up 30% of financing involved and retain equity , this will be interest free for 5 years .

Buyers will put up 10% deposit on over all valuation.

Will likely continue to struggle but get a break from the kindness of Darragh for 5 years.

Presumably developers will get the extra benefit (cost to taxpayers) of Grant leg ups.

Real struggle will commence after 5 years. Purchasers will continue to be in essence Tenants with a massive mortgage for years.

All makes absolute sense 😳

We're the houses come from remains a mystery as to does how these fortunate folks put food on the table and pay bills with cost of living crisis.

Game Changer 🤔 I'm not so sure.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/game-changer-first-home-scheme-to-help-bridge-gap-for-squeezed-middle-home-buyers-41793134.html

Meanwhile.....

https://www.thejournal.ie/daft-report-house-prices-5800407-Jun2022/

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254443#Comment_119254443

I've actually no opinion on the matter

So why are you posting up reports on the matter if you are a) don't have an opinion on it b) unwilling to to give an opinion on it.

Reminds of the time last week when you posted up a ESRI report you didn't even read or had no opinion on either....

Spamming threads with newslinks and not offering an opinion on the item(s) at hand is not what this thread is about tbh.

Cluedo Monopoly

Paul Reid gone. I hope he does an interview on how difficult it was to deal with all the failed Health Ministers....Donnelly, Leo, Harris, MMartin.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255512#Comment_119255512

Real struggle will commence after 5 years. Purchasers will continue to be in essence Tenants with a massive mortgage for years.

I'm not a fan of the scheme itself but you are grossly mischaracterising the scheme.

The people who will avail of this scheme will not be 'tenants'.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255875#Comment_119255875

A good morning Marko, you'd gone all quite, you seriously expect me or anyone to answer any question coming from you when all it turns into is you avoiding offering coherent contributions or responses to your many odd critique of other posters.

But I'll certainly, respond to your posts out of curteousy.

I posted a ligitimate post querying the bizzare actions, or lack of same of a sitting minister for Health, formed no opinion on the particular issue, just the Ministers extraordinary lack of handling of the matter and the obvious lack of respect senior officials with the DOH and HSE have towards the minister and simply asked, who's in charge.

As your on another rampage of belated responses, I'll also respond to your second post, unlike you I actually link "Current articles, reports" not two year old "Latest Stats ' or refer to utterly meaningless reports that don't actually interest most normal people living in the hear and now.

I also try to put in context what I'm discussing, so for example, The Housing Ministers "Game Changer" plan going live and on the same day, Daft report released.

Actually both should come under the same Heading DAFT.

Discuss the contents of post by all means but you really need to try harder not to criticise posters just for the sake of it, it's really tiresome and honestly becoming quite embarrassing.

Good morning 😏

Dempo1

Well well, breaking news...

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/06/27/paul-reid-to-step-down-as-hse-chief-in-december/

Dempo1

And poor Leo and FG

Unfortunately a paywall opinion piece so can share it but there's enough in the header and first few paragraphs to get a sense of some home Truths 😏

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2022/06/27/una-mullally-fine-gael-is-completely-disconnected-and-doesnt-even-realise-it/

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255980#Comment_119255980

And all you are being asked is whether you think the Minister is doing the right thing in rushing to save Navan Hospital A&E against the pen-pushers in the HSE, or whether the Minister is unnecessarily interfering in the day-to-day running of the HSE.

You seem to be just criticising for the sake of criticising, which is the actions of a serial moaner and whinger, rather than actually having a view on whether the Minister is doing the right thing. Are you scared to come off the fence on this, until opposition politicians have had their say?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254912#Comment_119254912

I think you are the one with the obsession, seeing things that aren't there, no mention of SF in my post.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256194#Comment_119256194

And all you continue to do is deflect from the post, as I've explained various threads dealing with HSE, health care (lack of) matters for you to pose elsewhere.

But if your asking if think Donnelly is utterly out of his depth, yes I do 😏

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255980#Comment_119255980

I posted a ligitimate post querying the bizzare actions, or lack of same of a sitting minister for Health, formed no opinion on the particular issue,

Again though you don't offer any opinion on the matter itself, it seems for yourself in particular you what to play the politician, not the policy or the substance of the matter itself. I think you actually agree with the Health Minister in this regard and that Navan Hospital should not have its A&E downgraded, but you wont admit it.

As per the second point, again you used the word tenant to describe someone who owns their own home. Its just factually incorrect. That is all.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256012#Comment_119256012

Your a fan of Una Mullaly, Dempo? Do you know what she stands for? ;)

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256229#Comment_119256229

Yet you cannot answer a very very simple question on the Navan hospital issue. You admit you don't have an opinion one way or another, but happy to spend days here spamming news articles about it. That is not in the spirit of this thread IMO.

Why are you scared to offer an opinion about it?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256254#Comment_119256254

Every single time there is an anti Fine Gael article 😂

Any comment on the article itself?

So predictable...

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256253#Comment_119256253

Thank you for yet another insightful and illuminating response.

I don't play the role of politician I ask questions on their performance or lack of same.

The use of Tenant is entirely appropriate in the context of this scheme, it has a ring of Social Housing to it by a different name, it's almost like these housing charities by up peoples distressed mortgages at enormous discounts, and renting back the home to folks who may have already paid of a decade or more of an existing mortgage. Call me cynical but having a liability to a Financial institution as well as government who both retain rights over the property seems utterly bizzare and this aside from the fact the mortgages will likely be unsustainable for many years ahead. Let's also not forget the development too are likely to be getting government incentives to build properties government will have a financial stake in.

Simply a bizzare approach IMO.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256254#Comment_119256254

We're do you get the notion I'm a fan of hers exactly, do you disagree with the context of the opinion piece or just dislike the author 🤔 I read opinion pieces, not the authors biography and form an opinion based on the opinion piece or article, Do you not 🤔

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256265#Comment_119256265

And finally, why are you and Blanch determined to get me form an opinion on anything, particularly when I posted on the how a Minister is dealing with a particular issue.

Do you think I've direct insight into the workings of Navan Hospital 🤔

I've specifically dealt with, what is by any measure an extraordinaryly badly managed issue by the Minister responsible and I might add the political expediency shown by local politicians who suddenly became aware of an issue that may impact on their electabilty next GE, most notably Helen Mc Entee who appears to have had little to say on the matter until the HSE made a decision.

Open to correction Marko but not ongoing sillyness from you 😏

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256285#Comment_119256285

Indeed and my word it's not even Subtle anymore 😏

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256285#Comment_119256285

Una Mullaly is a hypocrite and I won't take anything she says seriously. It's like asking Eoghan Harris about this view of the opposition. You won't learn anything new from either of them. Best to be ignored.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256300#Comment_119256300

Its behind a paywall so I cant read the article. You didn't read it either to be fair ;)

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256290#Comment_119256290

So you won't answer a very very basic question but are more than happy to trawl Irish news websites and report them here for basic consumption. Odd!

On your second point, you are wrong on a few counts.

Housing developments don't get a subsidy from the government, that's apartments.

The people who own these homes won't be tenants.

No data on why the repayments would be unsustainable.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256353#Comment_119256353

I actually did to be fair, I've a subscription, a luxury I'll be giving up shortly, but even that aside and as I explained, there's enough visible not only in the Header but the first two paragraphs to determine the premice of the opinion piece, which over all is an excellent analysis regardless of who the author is. I despise Fintan O Toole for example but some of his analysis is hard to disagree with.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256325#Comment_119256325

And finally, why are you and Blanch determined to get me form an opinion on anything

Eh, because you have posted about a dozen articles about the Navan Hospital issue, yet wont offer an opinion on the core issue itself. Its just drive-by posting and spamming.

Give an opinion, don't be scared to do so, and be prepared to defend it. That's what most others do.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256372#Comment_119256372

So you want me to deduce her entire argument by reading about 10% of the article itself?

Sorry, but no. Not playing that silly stupid game.

I'm, not a fan of Una or Fintan and won't be giving a cent to their salary, unlike yourself.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256368#Comment_119256368

Wow an actual opinion on a post, I'm impressed.

Are you 100% sure no winks and Nods won't take place in terms of subsidies to developers, I don't belive Apartments are exempt from this scheme (open to correction)

I won't re Ash my points on Tenancy

Re sustainability, riddle me this, if these folks don't qualify under existing central Bank rules re ability to repay, how do you honestly believe an interest waiver for 5 years is going to change that fact, this aside from increasing cost of living expense.

Either a person or couple can afford to pay back a mortgage or not, it's really not rocket science to come up with even a litte sceptism.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256392#Comment_119256392

No I'd like you to actually debate, discuss, heavens above actually post something of your own without just jumping on others posts. You only analyse other posters, not their points of view from what i can garner.

I'm actually not even sure you've actually posted a single radom comment or opinion of your own, I don't have to patience or were with all to bother checking.

You continously get into these mind numbing back and forth spats and it's utterly bewildering.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256406#Comment_119256406

Are you 100% sure no winks and Nods won't take place in terms of subsidies to developers, I don't belive Apartments are exempt from this scheme (open to correction)

I'm 100% what you are outlining is rubbish and isn't occurring.

Re sustainability, riddle me this, if these folks don't qualify under existing central Bank rules re ability to repay, how do you honestly believe an interest waiver for 5 years is going to change that fact, this aside from increasing cost of living expense.

What does your data say? Income limits of 3.5 times is actually very conservative and if the scheme allows new homeowners to repay up to 4.5 times their income limits that should be achievable. Again, where is your research and data that this would be a problem?

Either a person or couple can afford to pay back a mortgage or not, it's really not rocket science to come up with even a litte sceptism.

Again, how do you know they cannot. The CB rules are about protecting the banks, not about protecting mortgage holders.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256424#Comment_119256424

No I'd like you to actually debate, discuss, heavens above actually post something of your own without just jumping on others posts. You only analyse other posters, not their points of view from what i can garner.

I would if some posters actually offered an opinion of their own? Alas getting those opinions are hard to come by.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256453#Comment_119256453

A yes CB only protect Banks, more sillyness.

People often question why Ireland is the second most expensive mortgage market in Europe, they point to the difficulties around being able to repossess and CB rules regarding having capital in place.

Has anyone ever asked a sime question, why has Ireland been one of the most expensive mortgage markets for literally Decades, long before financial crash, CB capital reserve rules 🤔 of course not. This bizzare notion its a relatively new phenomenon is bizzare.

But again Marko can i direct you to other threads dealing with these matters.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256478#Comment_119256478

People often question why Ireland is the second most expensive mortgage market in Europe, they point to the difficulties around being able to repossess and CB rules regarding having capital in place.

The capital requirements are actually EU rules, not CB rules per say. True, in Ireland, it's neigh on impossible for the banks to reposses a family home, so people don't have to worry about it all that much. I take it you are happy with that.

ANother reason are the legacy of bad loans, which are then sold onto other funds, yet people give out about that too.

Has anyone ever asked a sime question, why has Ireland been one of the most expensive mortgage markets for literally Decades, long before financial crash, CB capital reserve rules 🤔 of course not. This bizzare notion its a relatively new phenomenon is bizzare.

Whats your data. If its decades, show us the data.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256457#Comment_119256457

I can't speak for others but I've expressed my opinions on numerous occasions only to be shouted down, others have offered excellent analysis on Polling, Health care, Politics and policy generally and are shouted down by the same small cohort.

I've absolutely no issues with differing opinions but my word even the most blatant incompetence is defended or deflected and whilst I don't pretend to be a political expert, I can see with my own two eyes what's going on.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256506#Comment_119256506

I can't speak for others but I've expressed my opinions on numerous occasions only to be shouted down

Yet, wont offer an opinion on a topic, a topic you have posted about numerous times and linked many articles...

Why?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256517#Comment_119256517

Marko, your running around in circles with this, you've avoided offering opinions and indeed answering questions repeatedly and you question me, Seriously,

I've offered literally thousands of opinions, answered questions, helped folks out, called out nonsense over almost 13 years on board, my record speaks for itself.

You've already tried this game last week, everybody saw what was going on, your assumed incorrectly you were being mistreated and yet here you are up to those old tricks again.

I won't be baited, will remain calm and composed, can't unfortunately play anymore more, have to go. But do have a great day all the same 😏

Brucie Bonus

So again, where is Foley? Madigan talking out of school, naming and shaming four schools, who claim she was completely wrong on her claims they were ignoring the dept of education and refusing to acknowledge correspondence.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256629#Comment_119256629

You can ask all you like and I'll continue to tell you, I've no opinion on what's going on there, just has I've explained countless times how the situation is being handled politically, which is terrible.