FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268465#Comment_119268465

Mr Kenny said: “The agreement with Fianna Fáil is very clear - three budgets and supply and confidence votes.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/enda-kenny-responds-to-fianna-fail-veto-reports-1.2648921

I'm speaking on FG giving them an unofficial junior partner role after initially getting in on telling us how bad FF were and how different FG would be. Codswallop of course.

So we can expect SF to be brought to the table because they are the opposition? Can we ****.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268465#Comment_119268465

FG could have refused to deal with them as they have with other parties with a similar mandate.

The fact is FG rehabilitated FF.

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268324#Comment_119268324

Allow me to clarify. For a century, they've [FF and FG] swapped being the leading party in government, with all the other party's being minor players.

In the latter years of the 2000's FF (with the help of others) were at the top, when the economy tanked, the troika had to be called in to try and rescue the country from the financial mess it found itself in. FG feigned outrage and disgust at their one time civil war nemesis, telling us all about their ineptitude, corruption and financial incompetence.

FG got voted in on the back of that, (mainly because FG weren't FF though)

A few short years later, FG, through their own ineptitude, cronyism and let's face it, utter arrogance, threw away the next election that was there's to win, relying on FF (who the traditional FF/FG vote swappers flocked back to) to prop them up.

In 2020, FF and SF won more seats than FG did, with SF seemingly stealing votes from both the traditional FG/FF voters, because they now seen there was little to no difference between the pair.

Both, rotten to the core.

So I stand by my comment. FG made FF electable again, and both party's, through their aforementioned corruption, ineptitude and arrogance have contributed to the rise of SF.

The facts. (as I see them). Feel free to disagree, but I feel I've evidence (polling results) to bolster my thoughts.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268324#Comment_119268324

FG brought FF back to government after the confidence and supply period, at the end of the day. And that's what's going to kill FG next time 'round.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268713#Comment_119268713

They may have brought them back to government, but the electorate decided they were electable before that. After FG "made them electable" they lost both first preference share and seats in the following election. It is an utterly nonsensical argument.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268586#Comment_119268586

A few short years later, FG, through their own ineptitude, cronyism and let's face it, utter arrogance, threw away the next election that was there's to win, relying on FF (who the traditional FF/FG vote swappers flocked back to) to prop them up.

Yes, FG performed somewhat poorly with their massive mandate after the 2011 election. But the electorate decided that the opposition party that should benefit from that was FF rather than any other opposition party. FG's performance may have opened the door, but there is no reason FF were the ones who had to go through it - they simply outperformed the other opposition parties such as SF.

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40907069.html

A new low for this Govt

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269083#Comment_119269083

And this society. The absolute state of it.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269015#Comment_119269015

Wasn't it more a case of the return of the power swap. FF and FG were all that many generations had known about and they didn't even really ever bother to look elsewhere, but SF were definitely gaining ground. That election, they just hadn't gained enough ground.

But thanks to FG's blatant croyism and arrogance etc. they helped bolster SF too..

Hilariously FG started last decade telling us all how bad and incompetent FF were, and by the end of the decade they couldn't help themselves (still now) bringing up SF's past at every chance they had to speak, forgetting somehow that everybody is aware of it. They closed out the decade by pairing up with the 'bad and incompetent' and losing thousands of votes to SF. How can FG not see that?

Historically they have been the party to come in when many FF voters have got fed up / need or want a change. I don't think they have ever really been a voice for the people, or why they thought that they would be able to influence votes. Who knows, all of FG's talks about FF being the disappearing party, could be another example of them getting the Irish voters wrong. I feel FG will be the party to dwindle away, the arrogance is far to much for most to accept, and the new power swap could be FF SF. I may be incorrect, but one thing that is abundantly clear, FG don't have a clue which way it will go either.

Cluedo Monopoly

This is what happens when you let FF and FG completely destroy the housing market.

Health staff shortage due to house prices - HSE manager (rte.ie)

Health staff shortages due to soaring property costs - HSE manager

She told the Sub-Committee on Mental Health that services right across the capital are suffering staff shortages because of soaring property costs.

One in four nursing graduates "don't take up a job" in nursing in Ireland, Ms O'Kelly said.

"We're really at a disadvantage geographically" as a result of house prices and accommodation shortages in the capital. she said.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268163#Comment_119268163

Go look at the list of legislation from O'Brien's department. Legislation changes the country more than anything else. Pretty much Civics 1.01.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268401#Comment_119268401

Eh, the division of power between local government and central government. Again, pretty much basic stuff for understanding how government works.

I explained this to posters a couple of years ago that the real failure when it came to housing were in the local authorities who had the bulk of the responsibility. In particular, the Dublin local authorities during the 2013-2019 period were a complete failure.

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269513#Comment_119269513

Is that FGs plan for the next 2 years, blame Sinn Fein for the housing crisis 😂

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269513#Comment_119269513

How did the minister create a housing plan then if they don't deal with housing. Sure it's down to each individual council then to produce and run their own with no overall Government strategy.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269552#Comment_119269552

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269543#Comment_119269543

The problem is that the local councils didn't do their job, particularly in Dublin. A huge number of projects were held up in Dublin City Council and in some cases the council actually objected to ABP on developments. Crazy stuff, which prevented people being housed.

As for FG's plan, how would I know what that is? I am just trying to educate a few poor souls about the division of power and responsibility.

Suckit

Isn't O'Brien also the head of local government?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269581#Comment_119269581

Is that the sam ABP that's in hot water currently. So you admit the minister does deal with housing were getting somewhere.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269582#Comment_119269582

Oh dear, oh dear. Nope, the elected councillors are in charge of their own area of local government.

Really, do we have to explain how local government works?

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269582#Comment_119269582

He is the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage of Ireland since 2020.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269607#Comment_119269607

And here was me thinking he was in charge of the space program. As apparently the minister does not deal with housing.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269006#Comment_119269006

FG brought FF, the opposition, the party who FG lambasted to get themselves in, to a back scratching agreement giving FF, the opposition, power. A reason to be relevant in regard to running the country. This made FF, the opposition, more relevant. FG brought FF back into having sway, being soundbite worthy. Raised their profile, the opposition. FG chose to do that after telling us FF were the absolute worst.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269543#Comment_119269543

Its been the plan for the last ten. SF having less seats than FF/FG combined in DCC, for less than 5 years, when FF/FG were in partnership, is why housing has worsened year on year for the last decade...sure...the other has bells on. I wonder why its gotten worse since? Head scratcher....

The Minister is responsible for, among other matters:

housing;

local authorities and related services;

Local government bodies now have responsibility for such matters as planning, local roads, sanitation, and libraries. The Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government has responsibility for local authorities and related services

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269600#Comment_119269600

No need. I was referencing his role in relation to the question. i.e. he could have answered the question in his capacity as minister for local government, not just housing.

I was forced to rush the post at my end so was only able to post the question.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269502#Comment_119269502

You do recall what year Ireland joined the EU Blanch 🤔

1st of January 1973, journey commenced long before that

You may Recall what was also going on in 1973 elsewhere 🤔

Do you know how many TD"S the party you despise so much had in 1973 ( it's a very easy number) 🤔

Can you Guess what Country actually supported Irelands membership, indeed are you aware Ireland had to fight hard to be accepted with initial opposition 🤔

Gosh you've quite an impression of Ireland back then

Can you guess which Parties were and had been in power for decades over seeing such a ghastly backward place 🤔

Do you know what Irelands main economic activity consisted of, I'll give you a hint (Moo Moo)

And finally you appear to think EU membership, Treaties, Legislation was and were opposed at every turn by one party, not only is that utter nonsense, it's so out there a response would be futile.

Not only have various member States been unhappy from time to time,, but all parties throughout the EU, MEP"s and my word even ordinary citizens of all political persuasion.

I clearly stated Ireland benifited from membership and you turn this into another diatribe about a party you obsess about, it's just Bizzare. You asked a fair question, I responded (although I don't have a PhD in politics or economics) and you come back with bizzare rant and you have the neck to say others avoid debate 😳

I'll say no more on the topic.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269402#Comment_119269402

Clearly the problem is people "expecting" to just have a home. How dare they.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268586#Comment_119268586

Very good summary. FG became worse than FF and as you said somehow made FF relevant again. Hard to fathom.

Irelandsnumberone

Anyone wanting anything done before October called out as populism by the Govt

Also Govt

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1542395246495023104?t=Nv51VF2ervwhQVb_NC6HJA&s=19

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269581#Comment_119269581

Laughable nonsense!

The fish rots from the head. It was the FF government who stopped building social housing and affordable housing even before the crash in 2007. Year on year they reduced the stock of social houses and abdicated responsibility to the private sector to meet all housing needs. FG continued that policy and made it even worse. I will write more on this later and outline all the FFG mistakes.

Homeless has hit 10,000 again. Worst in 3 years.

Brucie Bonus

So to clarify, housing is in a worsening crisis for over a decade.

But the minister for housing, local authorities and heritage has a mystery hands off role in housing at local level, (isn't everywhere in Ireland under some local authority?).

Also....but SF had the most seats of any party on DCC for under 5 years!, (even though FF/FG combined had more, were in government and the housing minister was FG).

Also.. but we did well out of joining the EU and SF weren't always supportive of that...

My jaysus.

Running out of ground to go to. We know planning is rigged, we know there's money, we know there's the workers. There simply isn't the will.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270397#Comment_119270397

Well Darragh O'Brien said the vacant property tax will not be introduced until Budget 2023. That's yet more evidence that the government cannot and will not solve the housing disaster that they created. FF and FG combined. Rest assured - they love that house prices are returning to Celtic Tiger levels.

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270818#Comment_119270818

If darragh o brien is still minister for housing after the reshuffle, we may give up on anything happening until after the next GE

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270895#Comment_119270895

Who else would take it? The clowns in cabinet only worry about keeping their seat. I imagine some of them have sights elsewhere after GE.Next and are actively working those opportunities, including O'Brien.

Dempo1

Removing him would be tantamount to admitting failure and besides he's essentially doing exactly what FFG want him to do.

He'll sadly being going nowhere unless of course he's promoted for all his efforts and Party Strokes, so to speak 😉

Dempo1

Some tit bits from FFG parliamentary party, the usual grandstanding one comes to expect at these gatherings but this stood out for me, not news as such but it keeps coming up.

Article

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/price-gouging-hotels-should-pay-full-rate-of-vat-fine-gael-party-is-told-41802989.html

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270469#Comment_119270469

It was actually copying the UK way back as early as the late 1970s, where home ownership for all became a theme. They never replaced stock in any great numbers and over time councils lost whatever ability they might have had to build. Around about that time the use of private dwellings emerged and has continued to this day, in the main as we had the stock to be able to do that.

Our present issue is 2007-related but more to specifically to that decade from 2010-2019 where very little was built. Even when the money was made available councils proved to be quite inept and only delivered tiny numbers. COVID stopping construction really didn't help either; the absolute worst of our COVID decisions IMO. Nor does councillors and TDs of all parties objecting to planning permission at local level. 27,000 are projected in 2023 and 32,000 in 2024, which is still a little low to match targets but in a far better ball park.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269851#Comment_119269851

Gobbledy gook confused nonsense.

Some parties have opposed every single EU referendum, not just the first one, that is a fact. One party has only become a little pro-EU since the British left in an obvious example of its post-colonial mentality.

Can you guess which parties have overseen Ireland's rise from a backwater, poorer than most to richer than most?

Now, for the final word on all of this, have a read of this paper:

https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/economic-letters/vol-2021-no-1-is-ireland-really-the-most-prosperous-country-in-europe.pdf

It is a really good analysis, and though it downgrades Ireland's performance by excluding the MNC influence, it still finds that

"On this measure, then, Ireland falls behind not only the UK but all six of the original founder members of the EEC, along with Austria and the three Nordic member states."

"At this level, Ireland’s average per capita consumption ranks 21 in the world (ignoring countries of less than a million population). Ahead of Ireland are the EU countries mentioned above as well as Norway and Switzerland, along with four “Anglo” countries (US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand), and four jurisdictions in East Asia (Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore and Taiwan)"

21st in the world, for a peripheral island on the edge of Europe, that is a really good performance. The question for the moaners and whingers is how to improve this?

shirrup

Some more serious allegations being made about ABP today. Intel the time. Wonder how many legal proceedings will inevitably result from all this skulduggery?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271372#Comment_119271372

Over a decade of a housing crisis and getting worse. Same for homelessness. Buying a home is becoming out of reach for more and more people. Health is kicked down the road each year as the scandal of hospital trolleys remains and slaintecare is forgotten.

The question for the moaners and whingers is how to improve this?

The best you and Mark can offer is our standing on various lists like it means none of the above is happening.

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271598#Comment_119271598

"21st richest country in the world" yet our health system is in absolute tatters, and the same with housing.

I'm sure there's lots of folks on the street, or on trolleys on hospitals, or worse still, realising their initial diagnosis has deteriorated to terminal levels because a lack of, or delay in care, that would appreciate being told, "cheer up and stop whinging and moaning, sure you're extremely privileged to be homeless or extremely ill in the 21st richest country in the world".

FFG "wealth over health" attitude completely personified there. That's why the country's in the state it's in.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271720#Comment_119271720

You don't seem to get it. All Western countries are struggling with similar issues. You also don't seem to understand that it is largely a Dublin problem. There are some undeniable facts that people are not willing to face up to:

(1) Our current low-rise dispersed approach to housing is not sustainable (yet every single populist councillor and residents group objects to high-rise in their locality)

(2) Dublin is now a large city, and it is no longer possible for people to find a place in the locality they grew up in (this is true of all major cities, yet we still get opposition politicians wittering on as if it is possible)

(3) Our pattern or rural development is mad. No other words for it, ribbon development, one-off housing, rejecting a village and town-based approach. This is a cultural phenonemon and reflected in the significant number of gombeen rural independent TDs that we elect.

(4) In Dublin, the City Council has been a complete disgrace, particularly in the period from 2013-2019, refusing permission, objecting to housing, dithering on projects, it is actually quite amazing the things that could have been done during that period, if we had a competent set of councillors.

(5) The cities of Limerick, Cork, Galway and Waterford represent the real future opportunity. Don't make the same mistake as Dublin and build realms and realms of 3-bed semis causing more sustainability issues. Our housing policy and Project Ireland 2040 as published by the government state all of this, but it is the local councils who must be causing the civil servants and Ministers to tear their hair out.

To sum up, all the right policies are there at national level, it is in the councils that the real problems and delays are.

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271850#Comment_119271850

Dublin problem 😂😂

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271598#Comment_119271598

Just thought I'd be helpful for future reference 😉

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271906#Comment_119271906

Well, now have a look at this

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/15-moyderwell-tralee-kerry/4606063

4-bed in the centre of Tralee for €150k, well affordable to a single teacher for example.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/no-48-grian-ard-longford-longford-longford/4607952

Three-bed detached in the middle of Longford for €150k.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/57-lake-glen-portlaoise-co-laois-r32-p8vc/4561591

PortLaoise ditto.

Now, if you want your 3,000 sq. ft. on top of a mountain with a view, you will have to pay for it, but in general, outside of the major cities, houses are still affordable.

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272015#Comment_119272015

Louth, Kildare, Meath and any of our major citys but it's just a Dublin problem

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268382#Comment_119268382

This was not a question about human rights records

Wasnt the question about how we came from nothing 50 years ago to having something? Of course, human rights matter, but only people like yourselves who want to paint Ireland and the government in the worst possible way think it doesnt.

Sure, I hear they have no homelessness in North Korea.... must be a FANTASTIC place to live and raise kids... ;)

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269851#Comment_119269851

And finally you appear to think EU membership, Treaties, Legislation was and were opposed at every turn by one party, not only is that utter nonsense, it's so out there a response would be futile.

Assuming you are talking about the main opposition party, but yes, that is actually a fact. They have NEVER sought a yes vote in any EU/EEC referendum. That is just a fact.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272015#Comment_119272015

Housing affordability is an issue in some places in Ireland but, every single country in the OECD struggles with aspects of this. Those that we want to be like the Kiwis, Swedes or Canadians have it much much worse.... yet the bregurders and moaners think the government are doing it on purpose or something.

https://archive.ph/SLujQ

Ireland is well down the pecking order globally when it comes to housing bubble risks.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272015#Comment_119272015

Just out of curiosity how much do you think any of these properties will actually sell for 🤔 asking price and achieved price, 2 very different things, how about the populous living within the geographical area, actually seeking to buy in these locations, perhaps you think there's no local interest 🤔

You've also conveniently listed, probably the the cheapest house in tralee, there's a number of reasons it's so cheap, notwithstanding what it will cost to renovate and possibly improve BER rating.

Perhaps you think folks in Dublin, Kildare, Mayo, Donegal, wicklow etc should up sticks and move to Tralee 🤔

Affordable housing availability is Nationwide in case you've missed this fact but more importantly how about availability of Social Housing.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272244#Comment_119272244

Have a lie in Marko, good for you and whilst not wishing to repeat myself (yet again), the question had nothing to do with human rights, you've spent 24 hours trying to convince yourself it was, it wasn't and I'm not getting into a discussion which seeks to deflect (yet again)

Jarhead_Tendler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272015#Comment_119272015

That estate in Longford is very rough. If you gave me the house for free I wouldn't live there