FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286934#Comment_119286934

'Bots' are people he disagrees with.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286986#Comment_119286986

Very strange behaviour posting on a platform that is not relevant. Varadkar is not the only one so can someone explain why they do this?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286986#Comment_119286986

Who said Twitter is “none relevant platform”?

Using social media to update people is standard for all public representatives

Trying to say the reactions from a load of bots accounts is a reflection of the public is not true

Dempo1

Not at all sure what it is with this obsession with all things Bots when it's abundantly clear the majority who responded to Leo's latest pronouncement are infact verified accounts, Real people aghast at the parallel universe , Leo clearly inhabits.

It's curious this mention of Public Representatives using Social media to update, they do indeed and the vast majority of it Tripe. Hard enough to believe anything certain politicians say let alone their Tweets.

I called out an obscure Senator of a particular political persuasion recently who "updated" the few followers she has about being Gobsmacked at a 2k a head Dinner MLM would be attending, the silly Senator clearly clueless hadn't done her research, MLM is a guest speaker at an event NOT raising money for SF but an entirely different cause involving an Australian chamber of commerce.

The silly Senator was roundly ridiculed and not by Bots but ordinary people with verified accounts, embarrassed for her and sick of a policy that is clearly not working and has become quite tiresome of late.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287239#Comment_119287239

If he used tiktok or something the same poster would be complaining how hes to old to be using it etc

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287239#Comment_119287239

How many bot accounts did you count on that tweet?

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284992#Comment_119284992

According to Michael Ring's 2020 GE report, 4 out of 5 FG seats are in danger. The turf issue is going to hit them hard in rural areas where turf is still used. With the economic hardships and rising energy prices, turf might see an upsurge in usage and Ryan and the rest of the FFG politicians will have problems when they come looking for votes at the next GE. Seats are shakey enough as it is for FFG but Ryan is on an ideological crusade and the other government TDs realise the negative vote impact of Ryan's turf ban. They may try to suspend the implementation of any ban due to the war in Ukraine or until after the next GE.

Regards...jmcc

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287356#Comment_119287356

They'll not touch my Turf 😁

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287385#Comment_119287385

A great topic for the headline writers if the government falls on this issue. :) "Turfed out".

FF/FG needs the Greens though. Not sure that the Greens would walk on this issue.

Regards...jmcc

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285015#Comment_119285015

What was the context? (genuinely)

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287551#Comment_119287551

Read the replies to his tweet? It is fairly clear that nobody is buying his list and that it obscures what many are experiencing. These lists do not reveal anything about the quality of the jobs, how many have emigrated in despair, or what they face when they get paid for the work that they do.

You may not agree but to ask what 'the context is when it is clear and spelt out in the replies is a bit odd.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287356#Comment_119287356

From what I can see locally, there is more turf cut this year than for several years. I am not sure if it's stockpiling or a 2 fingers to the government but it was a silly battle to pick.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287750#Comment_119287750

Actually turf cut very late this year because of bad weather in the Midlands, there's been a scramble over the past week in my area. I was lucky got a load cheaply a month ago. I don't think people living rural taking a blind bit of notice of Eamonn Ryan's nonsense but he did manage to increase prices for those with no turbary rights , Gouging commenced even before cutting started after his comments.

What's also telling is lots still burning in June and July as its been unseasonably cold so far .

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287750#Comment_119287750

The sheer idiocy of that 500 people community thing is amazing until you remember that it is dozy Eamon Ryan proposing it. The Greens will lose TDs based on their current polling but the impact of this will be far greater on FF/FG. The FF/FG TDs realise this and will try to do everything that they can to sabotage Ryan's plans. I think that all the ministers have qualified for their pensions now so the FFG government may be somewhat less stable than it was when this legislation was proposed.

Regards...jmcc

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287787#Comment_119287787

Indeed and even more extraordinary when you see the Greens have a Senator and Junior Minister right bang in the middle of Turf Country who might a whispered in Eamonns Ear and indeed another TD and Junior Minister Malcolm Noonan who seems like a decent chap but surely must have some sense of feelings on this sensitive matter in rural Ireland.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287587#Comment_119287587

Is the list accurate? As much as a bunch of tweets might indicate otherwise based on anecdotal evidence (and I fully put my hands up that there might be some context I'm missing here). There is pretty much jobs for everyone that wants one right now (in a lot of countries), no matter the persons skillset.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287895#Comment_119287895

They are stats from Eurostat from 30 June. There is a link to the unemployment data tables on that page.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Unemployment_statistics#Youth_unemployment

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287895#Comment_119287895

Why are you asking posters to do simple research for you?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/2022/06/14/incidence-of-low-paid-work-in-ireland-higher-than-expected/#:~:text=Incidence%20of%20low%20paid%20work%20in%20Ireland%20higher,is%20less%20than%20half%20the%20average%20full-time%20salary.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287959#Comment_119287959

No research needed and infact those who offered criticism of Leo's tweet simply pointed out its all well and good throwing up stats without context , particularly given its highly likely youth unemployment has reduced by way of apprenticeships, poorly paid low skill jobs etc. They also enquired about their long term prospects, being able to rent or god for I'd purchase a home.

It's like saying isnt it marvellous our Hospitality sector did employ so many people , the reality was it did , 70% on low pay and dreadful working conditions and guess what, they've had enough and that's the primary reason Hospitality sector is struggling to get an retain experienced staff.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287827#Comment_119287827

They probably realise that they have little chance of being reelected. Ryan is a true believer. He's probably going to press ahead with this even if it causes massive problems for FF/FG TDs. The Greens can be quite ruthless when it comes to getting their policies enacted and FF/FG still haven't learned this basic lesson. With Ryan, "saving the planet" matters more than saving FF/FG seats. If it had been Labour in government with FF/FG, they'd have rolled over in seconds but not the Greens.

Regards...jmcc

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288108#Comment_119288108

"saving the planet" matters more 

It matters more than anything else, regardless of who is in power, even the alleged great Left tsunami coming our way and the Greens are the only ones with the credibility to talk about it. We are very, very slowly moving that way anyhow. One reason I don't expect them to be too harshly punished in the next election is that they continue to stick to their guns on this; that's to be respected even if people don't like what it means.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288151#Comment_119288151

I does matter of course and no one doubts that, the issue primarily centres around a blanket decision to ban a heat source 1,000"s depend on and with no immediate alternative, he actually did back track and sounded even more foolish, saying those with Tarbury rights would not be impacted when he must have known the vast majority using turf don't have Turbary rights, then the Farce of Villages with 500 people.

People can jump up and down about insulation, Retrofitting schemes, despite grants it still cost homeowners money and even more for older properties. The retrofitting scheme has already a two year waiting list based on reports and that's if folks can afford the initial outlay.

The most farcical element of Ryan's idea was saying folks could use other fuel sources, the obvious being Oil, not only were prices double what they were in 2020, some would require installation of a heating system but also Oil burning is hardly conducive to achieving a greener planet, is it.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287942#Comment_119287942

Thanks, so it was just a pile on Leo for a tweet.

From the reaction from the locals it looked like it was lying or inaccurate somehow, but that doesn't seem to have been the case.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288285#Comment_119288285

The stat is not wrong Astro. Presenting it as a reflection that something great has been achieved without mentioning the downsides is the problem and wrong. That's what most answering that tweet are pointing out. But you knew this and I'd respect you more if you'd just claimed a 'pile-on' on 'poor Leo' from the start without the pretence that you were in any way looking for 'truth'.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288285#Comment_119288285

I don't recall anyone lying or being inaccurate here, if you actually looked at the responses they correctly sought context and yes correctly posed appropriate questions and no, the vast majority were not mysterious Bots or lefty loonies.

Some were critical, that's their entitlement.

What exactly is your problem with this, do you seriously believe Politicians can just post on Twitter free from questioning or clarification of context to what they Tweet.

How about you raise your concerns directly with those who actually tweeted right back at Leo, rather than this fawning nonsense and pretence of trying to understand people's responses to a Tweet . Better still why not offer support of Leo on Twitter, heaven knows he needs it.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288285#Comment_119288285

It really doesn't seem like that if you read the replies. Many are pointing out that they still can't afford rent or a mortgage. - They are the stats for May (it says it on top of the the tweet).

Leo literally retweeted a may-as-well-be-random tweet, as he did so without any relevant information or context. Something that is beginning to look familiar with them.

Another tweet from other sources not hell bent on patting themselves on the back could also be shown.

This is after the last financial crisis.. Now with another recession looming, and accommodation unaffordable in Ireland, what do you think the youth currently working will do then with their money that they are saving? Rent a one bed for a month, or get the feck out of here?

https://twitter.com/CarrDaithi/status/1543154177035182080

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288465#Comment_119288465

Yes precisely and the Poster starts off by enquiring what it's all about , gets responses then refers to the Locals and makes spurious claims about lying, I've two words that come to mind , but I'll remain calm 😉

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288465#Comment_119288465

This is yet another one of those vaguely interesting stats where headline percentages are being reworked into an entirely different agenda. 17.5% of say 4.8m is under 1m. Portugal's 14% is double. Even 5% of Germans is 4 times that many and the tiny Brazilian percentage is over 20 times ours in numbers. This is the proportion of people who did not currently live in their native land at that time, some of them likely for many years.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288573#Comment_119288573

The exact same could be applied to Leo's tweet.

It is still a huge percentage of our population fleeing from the problems here, as they won't be able to affored to live here. The majority of those employed 'youth' would not be on a decent wage, and most certainly not be able to use that wage to both pay a rent or mortgage and pay for general expenses. You can bet that a very high amount of them will be gone once the recession hits.

It's also not really the statistics that are relevant there as much as what has and will happen when the recession hits. Which is entirely predictable. FG having done little or nothing to help the housing crisis for their entire tenure has led to this. So not really sure Leo should be posting no context statistics with hands clapping emoji as if it's something to celebrate.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288609#Comment_119288609

Leo's data comes from current Eurostat data and it provides that context. That other tweet is not remotely useful unless you think it's a secret weapon to roll out against an incumbent government. That 2014 stat could include people from as far back as the 1950s for all we know.

Few people under 25 are on a so-called decent wage, almost exclusively due to lack of experience or knowledge.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288647#Comment_119288647

There is no context in the tweet. Just a foolish hand clapping emoji suggesting we have reason to celebrate. Nothing mentioning why the figures are like that. Are many sick/unable to work? Are they in courses? Are they just not on the live register? Are they abroad? Are they being pushed out to work by their parents during summer holidays as they need to get food on the table? The Eurostat pages mention it being cyclical. They also mention that those statistics aren't accurate or up to date for many countries.

As mentioned, the relevant data will be how many of them leave when things get worse. The 'youth employment' percentile change may even be negligible, as it won't show how many thousands will be fleeing.

Here are the figures for Ireland annually since 2011 if that is what you are looking for. I'll wager that this year and next year will be a lot higher.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288772#Comment_119288772

Well, I was very quickly able to establish it came from Eurostat, all those other EU countries was a clue to that. It's another press release from the MoE, good news supposedly but some people disagree on that. Migration is part of our psyche, people do so for any number of reasons, Personally would hand every school leaver a bag and a ticket and send them off for a year. Great for perspective!

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288285#Comment_119288285

So you got the answers for your 'genuine' inquiry that enabled you to post the above. A good mornings work.

The points raised were in regard of the tweet's context. As In what connection does the high employment have to immigration, low pay etc. Hardly a pile on.

People need to realise a dishonest blarney man like Leo will be questioned on the things he says.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288859#Comment_119288859

"all those other EU countries was a clue to that"

It wasn't the Via @Eurostat.eu at the bottom of the tweet? Leo didn't seem to notice it was only EU countries.

The Eurostat pages don't really provide any context either regarding the reasons. As for handing every school leaver a bag and a ticket to go off for a year.. It's not really the same as being forced to head off because they can't afford to live here. Leaving out of desperation cannot and shouldn't be compared to a backpacking holiday for a year. 🙄

It could be that yourself and Leo are celebrating over the youth working so that they can afford to leave for good.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288937#Comment_119288937

On the page I linked to, it provides both context and explanation.

brokenangel

Our unemployment is low yet we have found reason to complain

People complaining because young Irish travel for a few years, have they not lived in ireland before? That has always happened and should be encouraged, it’s great for young people to travel and come home with a different perspective

i bet the same people complaining think a holiday in Spain in some resort which spent millions to look exactly like England/ireland is experiencing a different culture

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288986#Comment_119288986

Who is complaining about young Irish people traveling?

Try harder to handwave away the issues here, it won't work.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288926#Comment_119288926

It was a statistic with a positive result for Ireland (there has been a bunch similar around happiness or economic growth or corruption), there of course can be lots of reasons behind it and lots of other countries could be doing better if it was measured differently or on a wages or PPP basis, but fairly innocuous all the same.

What's interesting is that a positive statistic was used as a means to attack the government based off a few anecdotes or imply there was something nefarious about it which there doesn't seem to have been (hence why I was asking was there more to it). The level of discourse here is at a very low level at the moment if this is generating noise. I would also imagine that any future positive data will have the same reaction as any negative data would and this will be played out for another 3 years till the next election.

And don't get me wrong, there are lots of things the government is doing wrong right now (my main bug bear would be getting large public transport projects off the ground or getting LNG terminals and offshore drilling in place for energy security towards a zero carbon future, it's criminal that moneypoint is still operating), employment levels aren't one of them, we're in a "jobs for all" phase right now.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289165#Comment_119289165

So if we don't take onboard that many have left because there are no prospects, that many in employment are in low wage, no security, no hope of progressing further jobs then we can post on Twitter how great it all is and give ourselves handclaps?

Yeh right! 😁

skimpydoo

There is another elephant about to renter the room, Mica. It has been badly handled by the government and it's looking more likely that any government td's in counties with Mica issues won't be re elected in the next election.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289200#Comment_119289200

OK, to take you seriously, where is there a shortage of jobs at the moment?

Hospitality, construction, tech, manufacturing, farming, retail, health are all crying out for staff, wages in some of those areas have been increasing above inflation (including the latest high inflation) for the past year (tech in particular), our public sector wages are higher than a lot of other European countries (we're not going to compete with teachers and nurses moving to Dubai, but then they have to live in Dubai and it's fundamentalism) and we're low tax for those at the bottom rungs of the salary scale.

What is the attack point here? What should the government do differently for job security? Career progression is there for anyone willing to work and skill up to do their job better as most youth would be doing.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289165#Comment_119289165

No. It was a seemingly positive out of context statistic. People requested context. You are simply dismissing valid query and criticism under a conspiracy theory. Not all questions and criticism comes from the same place.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289318#Comment_119289318

What's the conspiracy? One note posters who post all things positive about the opposition and all things negative about the government isn't a conspiracy, it's everywhere in all walks of life, what's getting weird is the constant effort to spin positive news into negative rather than look at what isn't working well and suggest ways to improve it (which is where the opposition has been sorely lacking thus far, so can understand the need for avoidance).

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289253#Comment_119289253

Currently 2 FG and 1 FF TDs here in Mayo. That would be a bit of a leap...

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289282#Comment_119289282

I suggest you read the comments on the tweet again. Nobody (or very few) bought the handclapping and self congratulations for a variety of verifiable reasons. This government are having to subsidise the working because people cannot make ends meet. This government are presiding over a housing crisis made by them. etc etc I could go on.

That is the same government that happy clappy Leo is co-leader of.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289343#Comment_119289343

You seem to think it was just a 'pile on leo'. That assumes none of the criticism was genuine just people looking to pile on.

Again, questions were asked regarding context. People have concerns and aren't content to take such 'good news' as relevant from a government politician with a reputation for dishonesty.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289361#Comment_119289361

OK, so it's just random other attacks at the government after some positive data about jobs was posted, got it.

Good to see the twitterati are held in such high esteem here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289375#Comment_119289375

For the criticism to be genuine I'd expect to see what the number should be and what changes the government should be making to reach those numbers, as Francie posted above, it was just being heralded as government being attacked for other reasons, which is fine, but then is anyone in the dark about that already? What in the tweet replies could be actively used to form a policy for implementation?

I mean, should unions start to be promoted for job security? (not imo) or stronger employment laws (we already have some of the strongest in place and can go too far as seen in place where very few youth are hired for full time positions), without that detail, the attacks mean nothing other than rabble rousing.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289378#Comment_119289378

He got hammered again and again with ordinary people telling him there was nothing to be that positive about in the figures. That was the point I made.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289348#Comment_119289348

Not really, look at what Michel McNamara did to get re elected.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286943#Comment_119286943

The thing is you are a tiny bit right and a huge amount wrong.

In Ireland, we have been spectacularly good at educating our youth, and providing them with jobs, the figures clearly say this.

However, in other countries which aren't successful like that, they don't have young people looking for houses, because without a job, you can't really aspire to buying a house. You are only confirming that the housing problem in Ireland is a problem of success. Success at educating our young people, success at finding jobs for our young people, success at attracting immigrants to Ireland.

My huge fear is that someone else will get into power and solve the housing problem the wrong way. If you have a failure in educating your young people, a failure in providing them with jobs, and a failure in keeping them from leaving the country, then you won't have a housing problem, as both the population and the number with jobs will be falling.