FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Irelandsnumberone

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1556173482370732032?t=6x7fokPWyzBkC8CC22ubMw&s=19

Im sure its a coincidence that the Sabina Higgins thread show she has the backing of the public over the Govt regarding her letter

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439715#Comment_119439715

I don't for one minute believe you think this is just some old story of no consequence to be used by people to attack government.

We know the finance department sold siteserv at a loss of some 10 million plus, only to turn around and award the purchaser a state contract on the basis of that purchase. There were claims the contract was in place before we even sold siteserv. These are very serious claims.

This is about politicians alledgedly pulling a stroke with public money while the country had taken on a generational debt to remedy the cronyism and corruption from their now bed fellows. Not only are most of the main players still in power, we've awarded the broadband contract to the same purchaser and of course, as yet, nobody has been held accountable and Noonan is in the wind.

This is stroke politics from the people who made a mockery of their own 'new politics'.

Was the AG working for INM when the purchaser at the center of yet another sweet state deal was the chair?

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439831#Comment_119439831

It's like pleading the fifth in America.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440684#Comment_119440684

Very well said. It's disgusting what they get away with. They being FG in this instance.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441814#Comment_119441814

Some things will never change.

Brucie Bonus

They'll condemn, and rightly too, the thievery of ink over 13 or more years ago, but shrug off this.

FF/FG have no business taking any high moral ground in any situation.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440635#Comment_119440635

Boards.ie showing yet again, that it has a preponerance of government supporters?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443305#Comment_119443305

Love the word play Majority. Not SF supporter but they were the Majority last time and they all laughed. Sample size could have been the office. Does it say how many votes ?

Dempo1

One recalls a few recent discussions re The Housing Minister & his Role with reqard to local Authorities, some even suggesting they've absolutely nothing to do with him, this despite his Job discription.

Over the past few days his image, elsewhere is constantly being used when the latest local authority / council debacle being discussed, vacant sites, levies, bringing local authorities housing stock back into use, housing etc.

I'm left perplexed as to why his imaged being used, indeed why his name keeps popping up, seems most unfair if local authorities having nothing to do with him 🤔

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1556407345017769984

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440684#Comment_119440684

Based on the terms of reference of this commission none of this stuff will be in the report. It is a story of no consequence whether we like it or not. It's far too long ago for most people to recall and would have no consequences on an election, where things matter. As for accountability well this is a well-bandied phrase. I like to think that comes via regulations and laws which prevent improprieties, some seem to just use it as a catchphrase to get people angry. What's your version of it here?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443449#Comment_119443449

I think the Indo have caught you out here. The story is not about him. In fact the department has coughed up the money so he has done his job, councils are "in transition".

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443555#Comment_119443555

Read my post again, to understand the point I was making 🤔 his image so to speak, recent assertions local authorities have nothing to do with him, I've read the article and many more that somehow suggest the Minister has some responsibility with regard to local authorities.

Article is not a gotcha feature I'm afraid.

Good Morning 😉

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119437198#Comment_119437198

I've already linked to the commission details but here it is again. You'll note the use of the Commissions of Investigation Act. Only the government can use that and this comes from the Office of The Taoiseach.

https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation-information/084bdb-commission-of-investigation-into-irish-bank-resolution-corporatio/#order

Who's Seamus now?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443572#Comment_119443572

Yeah, he helps make laws, gives them funds and lets them get on badly with things. Beyond that he has no real power except in approval of county housing plans, county managers as CEOs have more to actually get things done.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443583#Comment_119443583

I'm surprised and let down at your Gotcha response, I thought that nonsense was the go to punch line from others. To your credit you at least contribute and make many valid points , some I agree with, others I don't.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443547#Comment_119443547

Shameless and dishonest propaganda in this post.

You are trying to sell the idea that massive misappropriation of public money and possible cronyism is to be forgotten because this review took as long as it did. Anyone who doesn't care or claims not to, deserve every crony corrupt politician we regularly get.

Accountability would ensure recommendations don't gather dust and people engaging in their brand or legal but unethical behaviour might think twice.

The siteserv deal was the issue. What Noonan knew and why it was carried out the way it was. If this wasn't covered here, its a whitewash not fit for purpose.

Cluedo Monopoly

I heard on the radio twice over weekend that 2000 houses/apartments were being held up due to Irish Water. Not the first time I have heard that excuse. It was a Sunday Business Post article but I cannot find it. The properties were in Dublin near the infamous Irish Glass site. Irish Water told developers if would take 6 years to build a water pumping station or some such. Anyone have the link?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444680#Comment_119444680

If you wish to call facts and reality propaganda that is your prerogative just as it is your prerogative to remain in a state of semi-permanent rage about things that happened a long time ago. Accountability comes under 4 categories; Opposition parties jumping up and down and shouting about it, official sanctions, an inquiry and the one with highest bar, a successful conviction. Apart from the obvious jumping up and down, none of the others look likely in any way and it's long-forgotten, even in political circles.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444714#Comment_119444714

10 years ago was not a long time ago and there has to be full accountability. Why should we forget about it and say lessons have been learned? How many lessons have we learned in the past 10 years? How many lessons learned have we have heard from a teacher, namely Michael Martin?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445362#Comment_119445362

Well, none of the current or most recently concluded commission deals in any way with politicians. It's all about IBRC and how they sold Siteserv.

skimpydoo

Things not looking good for the governments newest housing crisis https://twitter.com/joey32790157/status/1556608054489227264?s=20&t=-IOUF0NHZgtNCAvxwQJ6Gg

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445382#Comment_119445382

It's a start. Also ponder on this why would politicians want to investigate their fellow party members?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445408#Comment_119445408

Lowry got kicked out of FG and parties are really not shy about doing such things. SIPO will deal with a lot of the rest, hence the regular embarrassment of TDs overclaiming. Many other things like procurement and even jobs are now rightfully kept out of the reach of politicians so the scope for wrongdoing is far more limited.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444714#Comment_119444714

It is a story of no consequence whether we like it or not. It's far too long ago for most people to recall and would have no consequences on an election, where things matter. As for accountability well this is a well-bandied phrase. I like to think that comes via regulations and laws which prevent improprieties, some seem to just use it as a catchphrase to get people angry. What's your version of it here?

There are no facts in your alledged beliefs as stated above.

If the investigation didn't cover the deal were we sold siteserv at a loss only to award a contract to the purchaser, and which came first was questioned, it was a waste IMO.

And if I might add, you are putting a lot of time into repeatedly telling us the whole affair was so long ago it doesn't matter, which saps greatly from your credibility levels.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445437#Comment_119445437

Well, there is a link to the terms of reference of the commission from the official government website. Are you claiming that is not factual? Incidentally the draft report suggested that IBRC were probably misled by Siteserv in advance of the sale.

As for the length of time, it is all about an extinct bank and company carry on a dozen or so years ago so not really a lot to learnt from this that we haven't learnt already. You are free to tie that to the government of the day, despite their only connection to this being the eventual setup of the commission.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445470#Comment_119445470

We sold it at a loss to Denis O'Brien, then we awarded him a state contract on the basis of that sale. There were questions as to which came first. If you've no interest in that, fair enough.

The terms of reference don't mean related supporting evidence is ignored. They would have found it very difficult to look into the sale alone, without investigation into who signed off on it and why. We need an investigation into how the contract was awarded and when, which IMO, would come up at some point even if not within the intended scope.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445507#Comment_119445507

Yeah, that sale and other IBRC behaviour is being investigated. The award contract was a standard procurement competition from Irish Water and completed in 2013 I believe and there were 9 bidders. Siteserv was sold to him in 2012.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/obrien-backed-siteserv-faces-asias-richest-man-over-water-meter-bid-29259809.html

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445435#Comment_119445435

I think a gentle Nudge, we'll have your back for a few occasional votes is how Lowry departed and he's not dissapointed has he 🤔

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445507#Comment_119445507

Don't you mean gave it away at a loss 😉

Oddly I'm seeing a pattern emerge in the Hospitality sector, namely Hotels, Sold for a song by Nama, they've barely struggled to pay staff for a few years, Pandemic arrives, Pandemic grants came to the rescue, most staff dropped like bad habits, Pandemic over, No staff, No income, Hang on.......

Same hotels & more just recently & mysteriously changing hands, massive government contracts awarded to "Help" with a new crisis since last March, Gaurenteed income & substantial profits for two years at a 100% cost to taxpayers, it's all sounding terribly familiar and an absolute omnishambles 🙄IMEHO

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445528#Comment_119445528

The state sold him a company at a loss.

The state awarded that company a contract.

I'm sure it was all legit and above board. Like when a FG politician's driver was appointed to the board.

Nobody buys the **** they are shovelling.

So does anyone know when the siteserv commission report will be published and released to the public? Will the likes of Michael Noonan, Denis O'Brien and others get away with a slap on the wrist, no more? Will the Denis O'Brien and FG friendly Indo, Sindo, Newstalk, Today FM and their ilk continue to stay silent on the matter, will they dare to criticize both? Will FFG draw a line to the story and no further investigations to take place about of of Ireland's most controversial deals in recent history?

I fear that this report will turn out to be a whitewash, absolving blame on the relevant parties. Hope I'm wrong but I fear the controversy and the dubious behaviour of certain individuals will be all forgotten about. That's the way the political elite and establishment would like us to think and believe!

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445903#Comment_119445903

It'll be 'lessons to be learned', 'it was a turbulent period' etc. etc. If they let Moriarty gather dust they'll probably pulp this one.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445833#Comment_119445833

Nobody buys the line you are pushing that Ireland is really corrupt because in reality its not. Moaners, cranks and spoofers always try that line about corruption in Ireland, yet offer little to no proof on their grand schemes.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445903#Comment_119445903

As long as the AG doesn't raise any flags, very soon. Supposed to be officially handed off by today although I doubt you'll see much of any of those in it as it's mostly about the IBRC decision to sell it.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445631#Comment_119445631

Oddly I'm seeing a pattern emerge in the Hospitality sector, namely Hotels, Sold for a song by Nama, they've barely struggled to pay staff for a few years, Pandemic arrives, Pandemic grants came to the rescue, most staff dropped like bad habits, Pandemic over, No staff, No income, Hang on.......

Do you have any evidence to back up your 'theory'? Or is it just another one of those pub talk theories?

Dempo1

I & many others buy the line @Brucie Bonus, its not rocket science, even for the most skeptical 😉

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446031#Comment_119446031

What line is that, that there is corruption all around us?

Dempo1

O Dear more evidence required, we're to start 🤔🤔 it's thread related as contracts being awarded by this government, but I won't discuss planned usage, this being discussed elsewhere 😉

I'll leave the rather chequred past of this fine establishment aside but hope the staff got their redundancies.

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/celbridge-manor-to-house-workers-amid-accommodation-shortage-41711424.html

But, But, But, Then......

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/former-kildare-hotel-to-house-up-to-350-ukrainian-refugees/

I should point out it has 60 bedrooms, needs urgent refurbishment, wholly unsuited for this new purpose, buy sure it's only taxpayers money, so to speak ..

There's more....

Hotel in Youghal sold mysteriously and soon after, whopping €12 million contract "Awarded" 🤔🤔🤔🤔

There's more........

The Citywest, its ownership, connections to red Cross, Debt wiped out during the pandemic, Now another whopping contract for 2 years....

I'll leave it at that but lots more if required and discussed elsewhere & indeed, Google a great source, albeit I do confess to having some inside knowledge, so to speak 😉

Dempo1

The line you seem to bizzarely think doesn't exist or even for a moment believe plausible.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446022#Comment_119446022

Personal attack rather than addressing the points. The usual shite.

No doubt you'll be on later whinging about nobody wanting to discuss topics.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446064#Comment_119446064

No. You said that. We are talking the siteserv deal.

Mind you, the stench of corruption follows FF/FG around.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446095#Comment_119446095

Nothing you linked to there cites actual corruption. In fact you better be careful what you say from here on in, as you will defame people who have done nothing wrong.

If you have actual evidence of corruption, best run off to your nearest Garda station and report it.

However, most of us live in the real world.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446140#Comment_119446140

O Dear who mentioned corruption 🤔 o yes you Marko, I certainly didn't, I don't presume to assume but am certainly very inquisitive about any and all Government contracts, their timing, Transparency (sadly lacking), even the ownership of some establishments rather mysterious, albeit I happen to have information, I won't be sharing here.

Are you not inquisitive Marko 🤔 maybe you'd perhaps not like to ask questions, I'm afraid I expect transparency regardless of who's in government.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446196#Comment_119446196

If you are not talking about corruption then what are you blathering about then?

Please make your points concise, brief and factual and don't engage in whimsical Walter mity type storytelling, as no one has an idea what you are talking about.

.

.

I am inquisitive but i won't swallow $hite from random perpetual doom merchants and misery junkies on the internet either. You seem to want to engage in that type of debate and talk.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446367#Comment_119446367

Had you actually read my OP rather than jumping in head first (again) you may have grasped the point I was making. You can back track on your comment re corruption, that I can fully understand as it was somewhat embarrassing, but asking me belatedly to make my point concise is a little odd, my point, response and now 2nd response were, are and remain very concise. 😉

NOG92

I agree completely that the real test for SF will be not this election but the subsequent one. This is because ppl will have had 5 years of "change" under a SF gov by that stage, and so the party will no longer represent whatever it is ppl think change means. The electorate will either approve or disapprove of what they've achieved during those years and will let it be known. Having said that, I think the future of FF is much less clear. Their political fate will depend on whether it enters gov as junior partners with SF, or if they decide to take to opposition next time out. Some in FF will recoil at the thought of coalition with SF, but will do so in order to stay in power and remain somewhat relevant. However, others in the party will not agree to it full stop therefore I think the the prospect of a split in the FF camp and the formation of a breakaway element can't be ruled out...

Dempo1

The news re APB keeps flowing, Beggar's belief what's coming out.

First appointed in 2017 ( 6 years), seems like such a short time ago, this board member decisions of concern are far more recent, so to speak.

https://www.ontheditch.com/abp-board-member-appeals-neighbourhood/

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446027#Comment_119446027

I would believe someone who has worked years in hospitality and knows the area over a guy who posts here daily.

Brucie Bonus

If people are buying up loss making hotels only for them to gain guaranteed income from refugees, that's just good fortune. How dare anyone suggest two parties with a history of looking after their own would be looking after their own. I mean how dare ye.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446022#Comment_119446022

Who said Ireland is "really corrupt"?

The issue here is that there was A MASSIVE and OBVIOUS case of corruption and it's being minimised by yourself and the rest of the Mount St massif.