Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

1348349351353354445

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm glad you brought this up Blanch as you especially blow and cold, rarely are ever constructive, always quick to be critical of posters rather than posts and refuse to engage when confronted on a topic (normally) completely unrelated to this Thread.

    Again your entitlement as is mine to call this out. I remain respectful, Reasonable, and even that's not good enough, there always has to be a dig.

    By all means carry on, I'll not be deterred.

    As with this bizzare obsession with "I'm not a fan" it only proves the point repeatedly made, that there's no lengths some will go to be objectionable, difficult & unreasonable, even at the most mundane of comments or posts, it's utterly bewildering and blatantly obvious what's going on.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    It would be nice if some could be clearer as to where they stand. Would help the rest of us understand their view point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    We've not been talking about the government for the last while, so I think we can guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The opposite is more true to be honest.

    They dismiss the MSM 95% of the time, they put on their Trump cap and complain about the Indo or RTE or how they are not doing their job. They complain that the government controls the MSM and put out feelers about the main opposition party.

    But then when the media rows in behind their view of the day, they are all cheerful and happy. Amazin way to be to be honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    More good news anyway...

    More people working than ever before in the history of the state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    No its not.

    Here you are refusing to discuss government in the government thread. We'd a whole day of you wanting to discuss Twitter.

    That comment was made re FOT and you were straight in to prove the point, (followed by blanch). You told me I loved Paddy Cosgrave only the other day. I know most about him off youse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    They are not a fan of FOT when he has a go at the main opposition party and their history of misdeeds. I'm sure he will be put back in the 'bad mainstream journalist' box again soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    About Paddy Cosgrove, did you repost some of his fake news some time back?


    Anyway, hard to keep up on this thread these days. It's like a live update of the news, more than an actual discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    A lot of generalisations there Mark. So I'm taking that that is an opinion of yours rather than a fact?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Again criticising discussion others are engaged in.

    Can you give your opinion on how you would like the discussion to shake out in future, from us?

    It seems some folk on here can't do right by you at all.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Eh no.

    Have a gander at the past few pages and their critique of the MSM and established media as they call it. It's easy to see who they are. Some go as far as saying the Government controls the media here.

    Is that something you agree with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I don't think I've ever posted anything of his, I might be wrong. Because we seem to agree on a few things you claim I love him. Same with Sinn Fein. Its very childish behaviour quite frankly.

    You are a key example of a person who will happily attack the source, the messenger, the poster rather than discuss the topic. Where do you stand on Troy and MM/LV backing him?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    So it's not an opinion of yours?

    You're hard to keep up with really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,749 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Do you agree/disagree with FoT on his view of the government on this issue Mark?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I'd like to be a better person too. Please let me know what's tolerated when you find out.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I'll not provide you with more material to further your agenda.

    So still no interest in discussing Troy or MM/LV backing him. Fair enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    There was a public consultation which included a reassessment of that Bill. This review of Ethics in Public Life - Reform and Consolidation of Ireland’s Statutory Framework is expected to be completed in 2022.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,971 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Fair enough. I had assumed there was sufficient maturity among contributors to the Current Affairs forum that someone could express agreement with one specific point made by FOT without automatically being accused of being Fintan's own version of




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I think FOT is a pretty good writer but rarely puts that to good use anymore. Otherwise he's off on whatever agenda suits him, mostly 1970s lefty-student stuff. Most of us have a very limited number of opinions, FOT has one on everything and delivers them uninvited and in lots of words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭jmcc


    You may be unaware, Mark, but the government does exercise a soft power over the media and in particular the newspapers.

    It is non-obvious to people who think of power in simple absolutes. Some of the newspapers have had falling sales for years and advertising has become increasingly important as the sales decrease. The government, over the last few years due to Covid, has been a major advertiser. The publishers don't really want to upset their big advertisers. It is not good for business. There are also newspaper subscriptions for government departments and semi-state organisations. The Dublin media is really that of a small village with about three Irish broadsheets (IT/Indo/Examiner), a few tabloids and some UK newspapers. TV and radio-wise, it is an equally small set. (RTE and Virgin Media for TV.) The Irish local radio market was destroyed in the 1980s by FF. This was because even some small towns had two or three radio stations and RTE was losing its audience. It even had to set up 2FM to compete with these pirate radio stations. These stations were far more independent and popular than RTE. RTE is dependent on the licence fee and advertising. 2FM has be bailed out every few years. When's the last time you watched a movie on RTE?

    When it comes to journalism, political correspondents have to be careful not to upset too many politicians or their sources will disappear and they'll be stuck recycling press releases. And if a journalist becomes too good at their job, there's always the possiblilty of being offered a job as an advisor. The funny thing is that some political correspondents who have been in the job too long become institutionalised and begin to side with the politicians. There was a funny audio clip from a newspaper political correspondent on a radio programme (Pat Kenny show, I think) before the 2016 joking about how a minority government with Independents was impossible and yet that's exactly what happened after the 2016 GE.

    That soft power exercised by the government is generally quite effective. What has happened is that small media organisations like The Village Magazine and The Ditch have become more effective at breaking stories and the legacy media generally follows up these stories when they achieve a critical mass of notability. The progression of the Troy story went from The Ditch to the Examiner (owned by the IT) and then the Independent and Irish Times and RTE.

    The small independent news organisations like The Ditch and the Village Magazine have their place in the ecology of the media and they are not constrained by a dependence on large advertisers. That makes them quite dangerous to FFG because the usual backscratching rules don't apply. A free press is essential for a democracy. It is no surprise that some politicians resent that because a free press represents a loss of control for them.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,749 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He is like a guy in the pub, you can agree with some things he says but think him a complete tool on another topic. Spice of life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Excellent news for Ireland 🇮🇪

    Well done the government 👏



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I wouldn't call the thread a live update of the news, more like a live update of whatever is trending for 2 minutes on Twitter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Coming in to complain about everyone while avoiding talking about the latest with government, in a current affairs government thread, is kind of funny though.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I think the workers deserve a round of applause. It's mad how things were quieter during a global pandemic all the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Martin facing backlash over leadership according to the Indo. It is not as if this was unexpected. (Paywalled artocle.)

    That FF think-in is going to have some frank discussions but will they result in a leadership challenge?

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    There'll be some fiesty exchanges no doubt , any prediction on who'll get the nod to replace Troy, my money on Dara Calleary, he's been graciously and cleverly quite , can't see MM promoting Barry Cowan albeit he's the most Troublesome back bencher.

    Can't see MM staying on after December at this stage, things were bad enough but he really miscalculated the #TroyStory as to did Leo

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Calleary, Lawless and Smyth were mentioned. Calleary might get it. It looks like Martin's weak leadership on Troy has caused problems for FF.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Morning 😏 Lawless reminds me of a mini me of Darragh O Brien , not sure why both equally as unpalatable 😏

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Morning. Lawless is probably the smartest of the bunch. Calleary resigned because of Golfgate and that would remind voters of another scandal. Smyth might be a good choice.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,749 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Think so. She would be better for PR value and not as problematic as Calleary.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I can't see it. September will be hectic and full of chaos. The school bus thing is a disaster and the student accommodation for first years will also be emotive. I wonder will the Education minister go into hiding again. Then there is the budget to agree. Removing Martin now could bring down the coalition of chaos. Probably one of the reasons they told Troy to jump - albeit after defending the scoundrel to the hilt.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Morning, I see this School Transport debacle getting a lot of traction this morning, it's like groundhog month, August , is there nothing , even Basic and fundamental priorities that FFGG can get right . Seems a favored month for Political scandal even though most TD'S on Holiday 😳

    September is going to be Brutal for FFGG , it's mind boggling their ineptitude.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭jmcc


    FF can do to Martin what it did to Brian Cowen. It can remove him as leader while leaving him as taoiseach. If there is a poll this weekend and FF is down then FFers may start to panic. Martin probably hopes to get through it all with the sacrifice of Troy even after supporting him. The problem is that FFers may be worried about their own seats

    Regards...jmcc



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Martin has been Stalin like in his sidelining of potential challengers for leadership......whole streghthing his internal position,but has ultimately weakened FF long-term as they are perceived as having a deficit of talent by electorate


    Lisa chambers and Jim Callaghan would be among its strongest debators and possessing some leadership material,but outside a v.narrow circle of people interested in politics would be near unknown to public



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭jmcc


    O'Callaghan's decision not to take a minister of state job when he wasn't offered Justice was a good one. He's still a possible future leader of FF and there's going to be a lot of discussion before the Dail resumes as to who replaces Martin and when. Lisa Chambers, if she had held her seat in 2020, would have been a very good option for leader of FF as a balance to MLMcD. At the moment, she's FF's leader in the Seanad, I think. The problem for O'Callaghan is that FF only managed to get around 5% in the Dublin Bay South bye-election. That could put his seat at risk. Bacik won a seat there because of FG incompetence. That risk of losing his seat if he is elected leader of FF wiould be used against him in any contest. Calleary was, at one time, spoken of as a possible leader but Goflgate damaged that possibility. Barry Cowen seems to be backing O'Callaghan and he's much more of an FFer than Martin ever was and he's also an instinctive politician. That's something that Martin is not. Cowen's proposal a few months ago for FF to take ownership of the Border Poll issue to prevent SF dominating it was a very shrewd one. The problem for FF is that Martin won't want to go quietly. A sequence of poor opinion polls for FF will probably trigger a leadership challenge.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FF only managed to get 5% in the Dublin Bay South by-election, yet it was FG incompetence that cost the government the seat?????



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,749 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yep, thought that was pretty spot on point myself.

    Careful candidate selection was a competence that was wholly missing on the FG team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yes. It was a FG Minister seat and OConnell would have gotten way more votes than Geoghegan and probably kept the seat. Pettiness on FG's part in a FG hotbed constituency.

    From 2 FG seats in 2016 to Zero in 2021. Nice.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭jmcc


    FF was not in the running to win a seat in the DBS bye-election. Bacik won the seat because of FG incompetence and some of those who had previously voted for O'Connell ended up voting for Bacik. This may be news to you but FF and FG are not a single party yet even if you think of them as such. FG would probably have held the seat if it had been O'Connell as the FG candidate. Even with a weak FF candidate, FG couldn't win. Think of it as another of Varadkar's electoral successes.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    My my, really? Did you see how that campaign shook out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I don't believe that the government controls the media. Some others here do.

    Do you believe the government controls the media, like RTE?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm not aware anyone has said anyone controls the media here , can someone please direct me to were this was said , happy to be corrected.

    What has been said , correctly is Blatant Biias is evident, a toeing of the establishment line , appalling and convenient laziness etc amongst other things all of which I 100% agree with .

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The government, over the last few years due to Covid, has been a major advertiser. The publishers don't really want to upset their big advertisers. It is not good for business.


    Lots of stuff here to unpack, but is it your theory that the media publishers in Ireland won't run a story because the government may take out ads in a paper? Is there any proof of this ever happening in Ireland? Just one instance? Is it just a pie in the sky theory you have?

    The Dublin media is really that of a small village with about three Irish broadsheets (IT/Indo/Examiner),

    Eh, you do know that the Examiner is a Cork-based publication? LOL It was after all called the 'Cork' Examiner



    The Irish local radio market was destroyed in the 1980s by FF. 

    Ireland has about 75 independent non-RTE radio stations as of today. Another one of your points falling flat.


    When it comes to journalism, political correspondents have to be careful not to upset too many politicians or their sources will disappear and they'll be stuck recycling press releases. 

    Then why do Journalists always get stories like Golfgate? TD's know the game as well as journalists. Journalists doing their job.


    And if a journalist becomes too good at their job, there's always the possiblilty of being offered a job as an advisor. 

    Example please? One of the best Irish Journalists around is Pat Leahy, when did he get a job? What about Vincent Brown of old? Did he get one of those jobs?


    The funny thing is that some political correspondents who have been in the job too long become institutionalised and begin to side with the politicians

    Example please

    There was a funny audio clip from a newspaper political correspondent on a radio programme (Pat Kenny show, I think) before the 2016 joking about how a minority government with Independents was impossible and yet that's exactly what happened after the 2016 GE.

    Link please.


    That soft power exercised by the government is generally quite effective. 

    Effective in doing what exactly?


    The Village Magazine and The Ditch have become more effective at breaking stories and the legacy media generally follows up these stories when they achieve a critical mass of notability. 

    These are fringe publications and outlets, that don't really matter all that much and once in a blue moon may get a story. Anyone and everyone is a journalist these days because the have an iPhone and internet connect. Doesn't mean they are good at their job though.

    The small independent news organisations like The Ditch and the Village Magazine have their place in the ecology of the media and they are not constrained by a dependence on large advertisers. 

    The village magazine has been bankrupt more times than I've had breakfast. It still needs money to run.

    As for the ditch, well we all know Paddy Cosgrove our own wannabe Elon Musk funds that. Tell me, when Paddy gets bored of his side project, how long with those working for the Ditch hang about and work for free?

    These independent medias also has a crackpot element to them. Gemma o'Doherty was a frequent writer to the Village for example.


    A free press is essential for a democracy.

    About the only thing you said that is true.

    According to 'Reporters without Borders' 2022 Index on Press Freedom, Ireland ranks number 6 in the world. Not the EU, not the OECD but the world.


    TLDR, your lengthy but wrong summary on how the Irish Government welds the power to stop the press from doing its job is both dishonest and fundamentally wrong, given the facts and independent sources I have provided.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I thought there were plans to reform the insurance industry and bring more insurers in?

    45 sectors of the economy struggling to get insurance (rte.ie)

    Up to 45 sectors and sub-sectors of the economy are struggling to get insurance cover for their activities, or are limited to just a single underwriter.

    That is according to insurance reform campaigners who have called for the Government to intervene directly to ensure no sectors of Irish society are left behind when it comes to insurance reform.

    The sectors include a varied range of areas, including ice-skating, mountain biking, pubs, aqua parks, thatched buildings, travel agents, circuses and more.

    He added that this was necessary "so that critical elements of the State's community, cultural, heritage and voluntary infrastructure, much of it endorsed, encouraged and financially supported by the State, can be protected."

    Others facing limited or no cover options include climbing walls, older car drivers, independent marts, late night venues and nursing homes.

    ----------

    There was a promise to reform the whole industry after the Bailey (FG) and Farrell (FG) fiascos.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,249 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Note that I provided a link stating that Ireland has more people at work than ever before.

    It was wholly and totally ignored by all.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Record Homeless figures expected later , the Highest ever , well done Darragh O Brien 😡

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




Advertisement