FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530319#Comment_119530319

Three high profile members quit. Their issues seems to be more on the structural side, in terms of the accountability and the visibility. Keane did a really great job on cancer centres but that was a walk in the park compared to dealing with the Ship of State over a decade on an overall health system.

One can easily predict periods of stop/start and delays at times but this is an all-party approach and one that even the main driver, Shortall, reckons we will get to. As I said, two key planks look imminent on the hospital side but there is an incredibly long way to go, and COVID delays notwithstanding, we are probably 1-2 years behind.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531839#Comment_119531839

I will follow this, because the main tenant of slaintecare that appeal,was care in community

But the HSE/government have recently changed rules around home-care and what can be done by carers calling to houses,and effectively decimated what was a brilliant service to a box-tick exercise destained to failure.....causing many to leave

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531932#Comment_119531932

Do you have any personal experience of the carers calling to houses?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531937#Comment_119531937

I would know an unreasonable amount of what goes on with carers calling to houses,and what they are/aren't allowed to do

I would know a care assistant in HSE gets e14.50 or so an hour starting off,many struggle to get hours,but contract care assistant cost state between 56 and 78 an hour and get plenty

I would know the HSE/government have recently curtailed many of tasks carers are allowed to do,and disciplined some for going above and beyond,and many feel it has taken good out of it as realistically each person requirements are different.....the full effects of this will play out over longer term

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531973#Comment_119531973

So that's a no!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532010#Comment_119532010

Except it's not,

it's a answer further outlining my knowledge of this area (and actually answers your qs,if your comprehension skills were up to scratch),

While maintaining privacy around my personal life

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532037#Comment_119532037

It's just gossip, any topic and you have the same stories.

I seen a thread on here when it is discussed in detail of people who actually use the service.

It's another topic dragged up here to slag off people working in the HSE for a pop at the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532064#Comment_119532064

Its not gossip,I know this for fact.....but continue to try and dismiss any/all concerns about country going down the tubes,no wonder we're in mess we are in,when any/all concerns in any area are laughed at

It was a fantastic service,changed thousands of lives for better,but it's effectiveness has been curtailed by HSE/government for spurious reasons,and will fail in the longer term by not being adaptable enough

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531937#Comment_119531937

Last weekend you had a family member in the know about the HSE....but was completely wrong! I am not sure if they actually exist or you made them up but you never acknowledged their mistake...what a surprise.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532064#Comment_119532064

A'hem A'hem, there you go again BA , you never dissapoiint, making assertions folks are slagging off Front line workers & those "Actually Working" in the HSE. Tut Tut.

I like most reasonable people separate The HSE Board, it's Directors , SeniorManagement & DG from those who work in the front line , day in & Day out . I know were the faults lay firmly & so do you.

Excuse after excuse for years from Top Brass & various Ministers with extraordinary funding put in place and continous dysfunction suggests to me something seriously wrong in how our Health services are being MANAGED .

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532083#Comment_119532083

Yet they log into here:

https://healthservice.hse.ie/staff/my-hse-self-service-support/

Carry on

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532266#Comment_119532266

🤣 Thats the best you can come up with? You want to go again on this? No problemo.

The IMO and the doctors are wrong so - there is no national payroll system.

Junior doctor pay issues due to payroll system - IMO (rte.ie)

'Demoralising' issues for junior doctors caused by payroll system - IMO

Non-consultant hospital doctors, or junior doctors, are having difficulties getting paid, due to having to join new payroll systems every time they start at a new post, according to the Irish Medical Organisation.

Chairman of the non-consultant hospital doctors committee at the IMO Dr John Cannon said junior doctors rotate hospitals in Ireland every six to 12 months as part of their training programme.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, he said that when they change hospital, even though they remain in Health Service Executive employment as their main employer, "they actually technically change employer as well at a local level.

"So that means every time they go to a new hospital, even though they're still working for the HSE, they have to join a new payroll system as all the payroll systems in the HSE are siloed, there's no national payroll system," he added.

Dr Cannon said that this often results in doctors going on to emergency tax, being put on the wrong pay point on the scale, missing hours that they are due in their pay, and, in some cases, not even getting paid at all.

Dr Cannon said this is causing a lot of stress, and a lot of hardship for junior doctors, adding that the "system is broken" and apologies from the HSE "will no longer cut it".

He said the HSE has been aware the issues have been there for decades, and junior doctors have been repeatedly asked for the issues to be fixed.

"We have advised them that truly the one way to get rid of this issue is to have a single nationalised payroll system, similar to the gardaí, where at a click of a button every junior doctor in the country can be paid."

The IMO has a mandate from junior doctors for industrial action and strike.

"It's always been our goal to fix the issues in the system without putting any undue stress on the system, which is very, very stretched at the moment and to solve our issues without essentially going on strike," Dr Cannon added.

He said the IMO hopes negotiations with the HSE will start very soon.

"We're hoping to see real meaningful change, but we have to see that the HSE is willing to move and move fast," he said.

"So the HSE has proven that it can leverage technology. It can be agile and it can change quickly, so we want to see those changes happen now and to remove this stress and this hardship on junior doctors.

"If we see those changes are happening and there's a willingness there, then we will stay in negotiations."

Dr Cannon added that the issue is one of the reasons that doctors are leaving Ireland to go to other countries to work.

He said it "is demoralising. It's exhausting, it's deflating and it's one of the reasons why our junior doctors are leaving to go to New Zealand and Australia and Canada to countries that they are respected both as people and as professionals".

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"I might have family member in HSE so know all this"

You might yeah!

Credibility....Tatters. Report that.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532302#Comment_119532302

I didn't expect you to apologise.

As I said carry on....

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532332#Comment_119532332

Have some integrity and admit you are wrong before you run away again.

HSE aims to reduce payroll overpayments (irishexaminer.com)

HSE aims to reduce payroll overpayments.

The HSE has established a national unit within its human resources division in an effort to reduce the problem of systemic payroll overpayments.

The move comes in the wake of an internal audit report for the Cork-Kerry region, revealed by the Irish Examiner, which detailed how a single employee at Cork University Hospital was overpaid by €416,000 over the space of nine years.

None of the overpaid money has been repaid to date, though the HSE said in the report that “negotiations are under way” between the employee and management. The worker remains employed at the hospital.

The new HR Pay Compliance Unit (HRPCU) is tasked with “monitoring overpayments on an ongoing basis” a HSE spokesperson said, including “reviewing the reasons” why such overpayments occur.

The internal audit review of overpayments found that the Cork-Kerry region had made nearly €900,000 worth of overpayments to employees by the end of September 2021.

One such potential write-off saw €37,080 paid out in pension entitlements between 2013 and 2017 to 63 former HSE workers who were deceased.

The HSE said it is currently implementing a “fully integrated” payroll solution, designed by a German firm, which was recently paid €3.9m for the delivery of a cloud-based software solution for the organisation

It recently emerged that non-consultant hospital doctors, who move between hospitals as part of their training in rotations of up to six months, are forced to endure delays in being paid, a fact the HSE apologised for.

Separately, many frontline workers — notably those in hospices, private nursing homes, and disability services — have yet to be paid their Covid bonus of €1,000 — three months after the even-then delayed payment first began to be dispersed.

---------------

So the HSE is wrong, the IMO is wrong, the nurses/doctors are wrong....but your 'might have a family member' is correct with a single link?

There is a plan to roll out a new national system using SAP but it will take years - I dont think you can comprehend how complex the HSE setup is. Hence Slaintecare which your government is making a complete balls of.

Cluedo Monopoly

Good discussion on Brendan O'Connor re Troy and how we should also be looking at TD's spouses to see what assets are being hidden.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532355#Comment_119532355

I talk to a person and you provide a link to some random article

As well I was having a decent discussion with another poster last week and then you came ploughing in to ruin it 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️😡😡

Carry on

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532377#Comment_119532377

I've suggested we now need a "Dail Register for Shenanigans & Misinterpretions " 😏

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532377#Comment_119532377

They are not public representatives and assets allegedly being hidden are a Revenue purview. Can you imagine the number of lawsuits out of that?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532568#Comment_119532568

No idea what you are talking about. Try actually replying to the content of the post. Credibility = Tatters.

Back to basics so.

You said the HSE have a national payroll system. Given all the data I have shown from HSE, IMO, INMO etc and various newspaper articles spelling out that payroll is still completely siloed (I bolded the important bits)....its a very simple question - Who is correct?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532651#Comment_119532651

Aragh I know yeah but the clever ones know exactly how to hide stuff from Revenue.

I remember even Eamon Gilmore's (Labour) wife had dodgy dealings when he was in power.

Gilmore defends wife's sale of €525,000 site for school – The Irish Times

Gilmore defends wife's sale of €525,000 site for school

LABOUR PARTY leader Eamon Gilmore has denied that recent media coverage surrounding the sale by his wife of land for a Galway school was embarrassing for him.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532037#Comment_119532037

Anecdotal answers, not backed up with any factual links, based on one-sided views of the situation, you would learn more talking to a man in the bar with two pints in his hand.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514784#Comment_119514784

I’m a long term FG voter from both sides of my family and not in a million years am I voting for that shower of sell out bastards again. They do absolutely zilch for me (middle income earner) except ride me senseless with tax and endless regulations and extra costs.

The question is what is the alternative?- I’m voting whatever right wing candidate is in my constituency- basically anyone that isn’t big government, anti Irish citizen, pro endless migration gets my No 1. I’m sick to the teeth of this net zero, green cult agenda and every other farce FFG supports

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532377#Comment_119532377

Transfers between spouses are tax-free.

If I was stupid enough to run for election and get elected a TD, I would transfer all of my interests in property and shares to my spouse, and would have nothing to do with them while working as a TD, not even knowing if they were all sold. It would ensure that I would have no conflict of interest through not knowing what interests I had.

So that discussion on O'Connor is just really stupid.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533378#Comment_119533378

Except it is the truth.....no wonder country is heading down the tubes when anyone raising issues, highlighting problems coming is laughed at and dissmissed out of hand

But sure like letting COVID onto the island...our old and sick dont matter to our ruling class.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533400#Comment_119533400

It is the truth because you say it is, not because there is any evidence.

The gold standard is evidence-based decision making, the bottom standard is complaining based on anecdotes.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532302#Comment_119532302

There is a single payroll system, just not a single employer.

For those who understand the difference, it is clear.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533406#Comment_119533406

As per usual shout down and dismiss any/all concerns at an early stage and few years down the line be wondering why we have another thing added to the absolute mess the government have made of running the state

If they simply don't want to do their jobs,maybe resign instead of outright dismissing all concerns,this is exactly how the housing crisis started,we can even trace this obnoxious behaviour back to Bertie era and telling anyone sounding alarms of a bust to kill emselves

Nothing ever changes with our ruling class

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533392#Comment_119533392

That's a hilarious fix, tbh.

'I promise I haven't looked at my spouse's bank account where the profit from my assets are just resting, now please can you give landlord's some more state aid'. 😁

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533413#Comment_119533413

Nope. I said this at the start. There is a payroll application using SAP that has not yet been rolled out nationally. It has been rolled out to a couple of CHOs as a pilot. It is primarily set up for admin staff at present. It will take years to roll out nationally because there are many diverse payroll systems and processes within the HSE umbrella. I don't know how many times I need to say this.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533392#Comment_119533392

I am sure you would Blanch.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531820#Comment_119531820

Its cool. If something green happens they'll get all the credit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533462#Comment_119533462

I don't see any point in a green party which deosnt bother with environmental or ecological issues tbh

What's realistic changes can they effect

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533413#Comment_119533413

I wouldn't bother.

The original conversation was with another poster and was over a week ago. Rest is history....

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534969#Comment_119534969

You made up a story to the other poster. I corrected you. Is it that hard to admit it? Reply to the post to counter my statements if you can but you know I am right.

You 'maybe' source was wrong. You are wrong. IMO, HSE and INMO are right. Own it. There is no shame in it.

Credibility = Tatters

You are the most disingenuous poster I have ever come across.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535175#Comment_119535175

This is how it is done. Poster with no evidence or back up for his claims but an anecdote, is caught out badly with backed up facts, and is given cover by another poster to enable him to 'draw a winning line' under the argument.

Bizarre behaviour.

Cluedo Monopoly

Where was Norma Foley hiding all summer? She seems to be just back today and there is any amount of chaos awaiting her. Bus ticket chaos (caused by govt policy), delayed LC results causing first year student accommodation crisis, staff shortages, overcrowded classrooms.

The government are going to have a very challenging autumn and winter.

I wonder did Troy get mentioned in the public sector pay agreement negotiations...

when I woke up this morning to read the Irish times front page, I thought that it was a spoof or trolling. An extra 1% pay increase for public sector workers. I spitted into my cornflakes. When I tried to dig deeper on the authenticity of the Irish Times story, they were right.

Its clear that the government are not committed to helping people with the cost of living. They don’t get it, they are completely out of touch with any resemblance of society. It’s over for FFGG, they had their time now please let SF in government.

It will probably have to take an all out general strike by workers, sending the country into gridlock and chaos for there to be a dramatic collapse of this sham of an government. It just has to happen. Enough is enough.

I could say more but right now, I’m a mixture of anger and upset with the the way FFGG have treated the citizens of Ireland with this much contempt and sheer arrogance. Just get off the stage Meehole, Smug Leo, Sleepy Eamon, for the sake of this country.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119538531#Comment_119538531

When you do eventually calm down remind yourself that there are cost of living plans for the Budget. That 1% is an extra €250m annually and the strategy of government is not to find itself hostage to what may be a moderately short period of high inflation, never mind the possible knock on for private industry negotiations. In that context it is better to find ways to give people one-off extra cash now.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119538531#Comment_119538531

No round of applause for the HSE workers anymore?

Let me know how you get on with arranging the strike when you tell everyone it’s about stopping nurses/doctors/Gardai/teachers etc a 1% pay rise when inflation is at 9.1%

Or when you explain to all the people who earn close to over 100k they will be hit with tax increases, Plus the 100k is a little bit moveable by 40k last time it changed…. So could be 60k next month

Anyway, best of luck with the strike, let us know how you get on!!!

Cluedo Monopoly

Unions offered 6.5% increase in public sector pay talks (rte.ie)

Unions offered 6.5% increase in public sector pay talks.

-------------

It seems like a decent offer but my guess is that it will be rejected.

What really boggles my mind is the dramatics around these negotiations. They always seem to finish in the 'early hours'. Why??

Public sector pay talks resumed at noon yesterday and continued through the night with a conclusion reached shortly after 6am.

Why??? I don't want people negotiating at 6am in the morning! That's completely unprofessional. If you cannot get it done by 9pm, adjourn until the next day. What is the absolute urgent rush that cannot take 1 more day? Is it whoever stays awake longest wins?

Histrionics. We have such an immature political system.

markodaly

I too think the offer will be rejected, however, the government are in a tough spot. The more pay they give out, the less is there for other people and of course the more inflation is baked into the economy.

It's a tough one to balance out.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119538422#Comment_119538422

At this stage, the government will be lucky to survive until Winter. There are just too many things going wrong at the same time. The student accommodation problem is just the tip of the iceberg. The energy issue is liable to cause outright hostility for FFG politicians on the doorstep even with the EU trying to deal with the problem.

Regards...jmcc

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543294#Comment_119543294

I would like to see the government survive until summer 2023 at the very least. I agree they will have a tough winter but I can't see them going for a winter election. Leo did that foolishly in Jan/Feb 2020 and they got mauled. They will get mauled again regardless but winter elections can trigger an angry electorate.

I get the sense that even hard-line FFG voters have lost their patience and are looking for alternatives to vote for. They power swap and pretend civil war politics veil has been well and truly lifted. Their priorities are truly exposed.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543294#Comment_119543294

The only way they will not survive the winter is by losing the Budget vote and that won't happen.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543309#Comment_119543309

Events will decide the GE, I think. The big hurdle is getting the Budget passed. The government's majority is the problem. If some FFG backbenchers decide that taking a "principled" stand might save their seats then they might vote against the Budget. That could have two outcomes: a GE or a new coalition. The GE will cause problems for FFG and for SF because it is too early in the election cycle and getting candidates in place will be difficult. A new coalition presented as a "national emergency" government might be a more likely outcome. The government will try to buy off as many TDs as possible to ensure that the Budget passes. Varadkar really had no option as there were motions of no confidence pending.

Regards...jmcc

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543324#Comment_119543324

There are other ways. The trust levels within the coalition must be at an all time low. Another Troy like scandal and the Greens could walk. I hope not.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543355#Comment_119543355

Nah, not as much of an issue as rumours imagine them to be.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543355#Comment_119543355

The really scary thing is that Eamon Ryan is the only grown-up leader in FFG. Varadkar is an incompetent and has lost seats for FG in every election. Martin lost a GE for FF where it should have won over 50 seats. These two clowns then came out and supported Troy. It took Ryan to intervene and put the boot in on Troy and a few hours later Troy was gone. FF/FG would be very stupid to underestimate the Greens.

Regards...jmcc

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543350#Comment_119543350

 If some FFG backbenchers decide that taking a "principled" stand might save their seats then they might vote against the Budget.

Your long and detailed conclusions always include the fanciful. Principled here means defying the whip and getting kicked out of the party, which would absolutely lose them their seats.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543294#Comment_119543294

Over the two years since this government started, we have had a long line of posts about how the government won't survive this month, or next week, or until the end of the year, yet there has never been a coherent explanation of how and why the government will fall. Difficult times in the economy ahead, the difficulties of dealing with Covid or with the Russian invasion, etc. do not automatically lead to the government falling.

Can you explain the process of how it will happen? Do you expect the Greens to walk because.....? Do you expect Martin to go in a huff because no longer Taoiseach? What do you actually mean by the government will be lucky to survive until winter? Wishing the government to go doesn't make it happen.