FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573567#Comment_119573567

Look at your latest electriciy or gas bill.

Regards...jmcc

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573663#Comment_119573663

And? Relative to other countries?

We all like having a moan about living in Ireland and FG this and FF that, but how many of the moaners and whingers would swap life in Ireland for life in Eritrea or Ukraine? Or even most of our neighbours?

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573725#Comment_119573725

France.

France

In January, the French government forced the state-owned energy provider, Électricité de France (EDF), to cap wholesale price rises to 4% for a year, at a cost of €8.4bn (£7bn).

France had already announced a one-off €100 (£84) payment last year to 5.8 million households receiving energy vouchers. Since then, it has also reduced taxes on electricity.

According to Bruegel, a Brussels-based think tank, France is expected to spend €45bn (£38bn) to support people through the cost of living crisis.

Spain.

Spain

Spain has cut VAT on energy bills from 21% to 10%. A special tax on electricity has also been temporarily cut from 7% to 0.5%.

To pay for these tax cuts, Spain introduced a windfall tax on energy companies, which aims to raise €3bn (£2.5bn).

In April, the European Commission agreed a price cap for gas in Portugal and Spain - an average of €50 (£42) per megawatt-hour.

The price cap will last for one year and aims to halve gas bills for 40% of customers in the two countries.

When combined, Spain's measures are expected to cost about €27bn (£23bn).

Meanwhile in Ireland.

Electric Ireland has announced further increases to its residential electricity and gas bills from 1 October after increasing them in August.

The company said its electricity bills will increase by 26.7% and residential gas bills by 37.5% from next month.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0901/1320041-electric-ireland-price-hike/

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573871#Comment_119573871

You are aware the budget is coming up plus we did give get 200 euro per household earlier in year.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573643#Comment_119573643

He is the leader of one of the parties in government, is he not allowed to have an opinion?

By the way he is 100% right and everything he says in the article is correct.

Even if the Kerry terminal gets planning it wil be doing nothing till 2030, hardly a great relief for the current electricity pricing.

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573968#Comment_119573968

You are aware the budget is coming up plus we did give get 200 euro per household earlier in year.

Yes. But the poster asked this question.

And? Relative to other countries?

I answered.

brokenangel

Really we are having a moan here about Covid, which affected the entire World and the Ukraine war which is also affecting the entire World

The numbers provided give an excellent view of the progress Ireland made over that period yet we still have people trying to find a fault with it.

Baffling carry on.

Also an awful insult to all the Irish people who worked hard and studied hard to make sure we did make progress. Total lack of respect to the people who have gone before us!!

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573460#Comment_119573460

I can tell you who isn't

In terms of who is:

#HousingForAll is one year old and it's making good progress.

Since the middle of 2021, almost 54,000 new homes have been either built (25,000) or commenced (28,450).

The number of homes purchased by Households has gone from a low of just under 25,699 in 2011 to 55,298 in 2021.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573455#Comment_119573455

So the data was updated in March this year but it should be in a thread for the previous government which was shut down in Feb 2020?

Should it not be discussed now as the information is available now? not when it wasn't available?

Also the poster mentioned Ireland, to me it seems right to discuss on this thread. Not sure it would warrant a thread on its own:

If you scratch the surface and look globally Ireland is doing very well on many of the big issues.

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574005#Comment_119574005

Also an awful insult to all the Irish people who worked hard and studied hard to make sure we did make progress. Total lack of respect to the people who have gone before us!!

On that, has this ever been sorted?

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0602/1302682-most-healthcare-workers-havent-received-pandemic-bonus/

A round of applause doesn't pay the bills apparently.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574053#Comment_119574053

You'd have admire the level of delusion which involves believing this crowd of clowns can solve the housing crisis,

when they can't even manage this

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574053#Comment_119574053

Article from June, it’s September now

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574126#Comment_119574126

Didn't someone link to a 4 year old graph earlier? You didn't seem too concerned about the timeline with that.

The numbers provided give an excellent view of the progress Ireland made over that period yet we still have people trying to find a fault with it.

You can have your couple of months.

Have those workers been sorted yet do you know?

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574043#Comment_119574043

The data may have been updated in March but it relates to a period that ended in 2018. There's been a general election and new government since.

While it may not warrant a thread of its own it's certainly not relevant to this thread.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574053#Comment_119574053

This is the sort of nonsense that passes for debate.

Poster on boards expects Minister for Health to be working with pen and paper calculating pandemic bonuses due to healthcare staff and sitting behind a desk writing and handing out cheques to them.

Like, the Minister orders that they be paid, it is down to officials after that.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573541#Comment_119573541

But but but there is a graph that says there is no housing DISASTER and rent is affordable for our young people....and and our health service is superb with the trolley crisis resolved and almost no waiting list for a delayed diagnosis and a great new children's hospital built so efficiently ...and and the cronyism and corruption that FG promised to resolve in 2011 has been completely fixed with the standards in public office bill of 2015 passing into legislation without a problem.....oh wait.

We have some plans though...high level ones. Failing or destined to fail.

And we did really well on the national debt per capita index to achieve this utopia....watch that space.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574509#Comment_119574509

Wait I thought Ministers did not control the department they are the head of ? Minister for housing does not apparently.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574509#Comment_119574509

Well the article is from June and the majority of workers had received the covid payment by early August. Private nursing homes/agency staff and some others hadn't been paid, mostly because HSE don't have access to their payroll.

Not sure if they are paid yet.

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574509#Comment_119574509

I don't remember suggesting the minister for health, personally sits down calculating pandemic payments. .

Oh wait, I didn't.

When you're telling blatant lies about what a poster on here expects, this doesn't reflect well on yourself.

This is the sort of nonsense that passes for debate.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574819#Comment_119574819

hehe, Shrodringers ministers. Don't run the department they are in charge of and on the other hand writing out checks personally for departments they don't run. You can't make it up.. oh wait. 🤥

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574819#Comment_119574819

You were blaming Ministers for something out of their control. I was just parodying what you were looking for.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574857#Comment_119574857

What's out of their control exactly ? Chasing up their own department to get the job done ?

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574857#Comment_119574857

Personally blaming a minister?

Where?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574896#Comment_119574896

The HSE is an independent agency, not part of the Department.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574930#Comment_119574930

Ha, So what does the department of health do then. And the Minister. 🤪

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574951#Comment_119574951

This is basic stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Health_%28Ireland%29

"The role of the department and departmental team is to support the minister and the democratic process by:

• Formulating policy underpinned by an evidence-based approach and providing direction on national health priorities ensuring that quality and value for money are enhanced through the implementation of an evidence-based approach underpinned by monitoring and evaluation.
• Protecting the interests of patients and consumers and supporting practitioners and professionals to practice to the highest standards by providing a prudent and appropriate regulatory framework.
• Providing effective stewardship over health resources by demanding accountability for achieving outcomes including financial, managerial and clinical accountability, and by providing the frameworks, including enhanced service planning at national level to improve the overall governance of the health system.
• Fulfilling the state's obligations in relation to the EU, WHO, Council of Europe and other international bodies and the continued implementation of the co-operation agenda decided by the North-South Ministerial Council."

The Department's role is policy, the HSE is charged with implementation. So, if there was a policy decision not to pay a pandemic bonus, the Minister and the Department would be the target of your criticism, but if there has been a failure to pay the bonus on time, that is the operational responsibility of the HSE and they and Paul Reid should be the target of your criticism.

shirrup

This thread would melt your brain. It would appear to me, that any govt measures a few posters deem to be a success can be attributed directly to the govt, or relevant ministers.

Anything not a success/Amateur hour, scapegoat some civil servants or department somewhere.

This thread is absolutely riddled with examples.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575026#Comment_119575026

You posted a link from June which was out of date, then complain about the content in the thread

Kind of says it all really doesn't it

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575026#Comment_119575026

It does indeed. They make it sound like there is no reason for a minister or a department with all the smoke and mirrors. Seems it's just a cash grab for a role. Have stuff like a Minister for housing coming out with this amazing plan job done sorted shouted from the rooftops. Questions why nothings done .. err Minister does not control anything. It's the worse kind of excuses. I have been to no other country where people dance around on a head of a pin. You would never hear in France, Germany, UK Some Minister being questioned and replying I don't control this. It's bonkers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574951#Comment_119574951

Hahahaha.....this is some discourse....the minister of health deosnt oversee/anything to do with the HSE,

You'd wanna be some melt to believe that🤪🤪

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575026#Comment_119575026

It doesn't melt my brain at all, I fully understand the difference between policy issues (Minister) and implementation issues (Departments and independent agencies).

It doesn't require a lot of thinking to get on top of it, if you consider it like that.

Housing is a really good example, where there were some good policies in place, but independent councils run by different political parties didn't implement the policies and actually frustrated the implementation of improvements in housing.

shirrup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119577948#Comment_119577948

You've a skewed line of thinking buddy, because if everyone was to follow your train of thoughts, absolutely nothing in the state could be attributed to the govt of the day, only on how efficient (or not in your example) the civil/public servants are at rolling these proposals out.

If a policy sucks and is destined for failure,it will suck and fail no matter who is tasked with implementing it after all.

No one thinks the minister of housing is pulling on a pair of hobnails, and getting out a trowel and spirit level, nor the health minister to don a white coat and stethoscope. But I personally expect them to be in charge of their departments. There's plenty of evidence for both FF and FG ridiculing ministers from either party for policies being a failure when either of them were in opposition to each other, and that's indisputable.

You make it sound like all politicans are surplus to requirement, and it's the civil service drawing up their own legislation and failing/successfully implementing them.

Buck stops somewhere though. You can't scapegoat one and give glory to the other depending which way the wind blows.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578386#Comment_119578386

Its a relatively unique tactic to Irish politics,simply adbandon any/all concept of political accountability and blame all failures on anonymous civil servants

No normal country carries on like this

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578386#Comment_119578386

You are obviously too young to have read and watched Yes Minister and Yes, Prime Minister, if you are attributing success and failure solely to Ministers.

To answer, your point, a poster was complaining about nurses not having been paid their pandemic bonus. That is 100% on the HSE or whatever implementation agency was doing it. They are to blame, not the Minister.

However, if you think nurses should not have got a pandemic bonus, then you would be correct to blame the Minister, as that was the policy decision. What is happening a lot is that the government are getting things right policy wise on a lot of issues, so the usual whingers and moaners can't criticise them for those, so they are focussing on the implementation issues which are not the Minister's responsibility.

I mean, is there a single opposition poster on here willing to say that the nurses should not have got a pandemic bonus?

Cluedo Monopoly

Yes yes FFG were never accountable for the current shambles across health and housing. They were utterly toothless over the past few decades. No government ministers are accountable. They are rudderless. The councils also forced the government to shelve the Standards in Public office bill from 2015 after pretending they wanted reform for a while.

We'll see if the electorate buy that utter nonsense.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578981#Comment_119578981

Do you think the nurses should have got a pandemic bonus?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579280#Comment_119579280

They should have got at least 3 times the amount they got. Thankfully we have a national payroll system that sorted all those payments out quickly.

Thankfully we have a superb nurse-bed ratio too eh 😉

I'd say more but I don't want to risk a ban.

Cluedo Monopoly

5th September press release

INMO Calls for Nurses’ and Midwives’ Health, Wellbeing and Safety to be Budget 2023 Priority

“Since the Dáil broke up for its summer recess, 11,275 people have been without a bed in Irish hospitals. Unless there is meaningful action on staffing, bed capacity and using the capacity of private hospitals, we are in for an extremely bleak winter. The Minister for Health must prioritise the publication and actioning of a fully funded winter capacity plan in tandem with Budget 2023.  

“We also need to urgently fund and implement the Framework for Safe Staffing across acute hospitals, emergency departments, community and care of older persons. Delays to this implementation have a direct impact on how quickly and how well patients recover from illness, and how safe our members are at work. It needs to be funded, implemented and legislated for as a matter of urgency. 

“A priority in this budget needs to be recruitment and retention. We simply can’t afford to let things get worse for nurses and midwives.  

There isn’t an endless supply of people who are willing to work in Irish hospitals, particularly in unsafe conditions.

jmcc

It is the same story each time. Too many useless, overpaid politicians and too few healthcare workers.

Regards...jmcc

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579488#Comment_119579488

Do you think action on staffing and bed capacity should take precedence over the tripling of the pandemic payment?

CarProblem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578981#Comment_119578981

Don't forget Covid

• case numbers increase => the public needs to take personal responsibility. Everybody bar the government is responsible for the "meaningful Christmas" debacle
• case numbers decrease => woo hoo, isn't the government great

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579742#Comment_119579742

Healthcare workers leaving in droves. They have had enough. And the ones abroad will not come back until the system is fixed. They will be waiting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580549#Comment_119580549

The ones who come home to help during COVID,the government just fcuked em over.....how can anyone in good conscience ask them to come back again,

go where your wanted/respected,they owe this state nothing particularly after that blaggarding they gotton

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579742#Comment_119579742

Actually, now that you say it, the number of nurses per 1000 population is above average in Ireland, while the number of parliamentarians for the main chamber is below average, so the statistics disagree.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580129#Comment_119580129

Not exactly true, I actually seen someone yesterday on twitter who had got covid was blaming everyone and anyone. Seemingly all children going to school should still be wearing masks. Never mind what affect it has on the children, who cares about them, this woman had covid.

Now that is what was going on during covid expect multiple it by about 300k.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RoryHearne/status/1567141442513936384

I taught this was to be stopped after that farce in maynooth....what's the point of all this building,if we aren't letting people buy em as homes

Fcuking failed state material.....we need to start electing people to look out for interests of people living or working here

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580549#Comment_119580549

One episode of Joe Duffy with three nurses and now healthcare workers are leaving in droves and none are returning

Is this the same episode when you tried to say housing was better in Australia when it is clearly not

Anyway do you have anything to back up all these healthcare workers leaving in droves?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580808#Comment_119580808

Point out the exact post where I said "housing was better in Australia" and I will send you 100 Euro. Go on.

The Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO) said trolley numbers have become unsustainable and will impact nurse retention in the coming months as they deal with the fallout of the crisis. Over 5,262 patients have been on trolleys since the beginning of May according to the union’s trolley watch, a 68 per cent increase on the same time period in 2021. “In recent surveys by the INMO in some of Ireland’s busiest emergency departments, over 30 per cent of nurses stated that they were likely or very likely to leave the profession in the next 12 months,” said INMO general secretary Phil Ní Sheaghdha.

Actually no, hold that thought - you are baiting again looking for a censorship ban. I vowed not to respond to your utter nonsense again. Today I failed.

Bye bye BA, I hope you grow up. You really haven't a clue but keep up the good work.

Report that.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580827#Comment_119580827

So in other words the HSE workers are not leaving. They done a survey and 30% suggested they might leave.

More personal comments 🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580790#Comment_119580790

Have you the numbers since the start of the year? or just one month?

brokenangel

This is the problem I find with twitter. First off the person shares one month data which automatically suggest they are hiding something

It would also suggest if we look at previous years the numbers are a little different when someone actually pulls the full year

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jimmy_Mc_1/status/1567175988483604487

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580975#Comment_119580975

Hasn't the takeover of housing by corporate overlords enabled by liberials really gained traction over last 16 months.....your using out of date data,to justify subjecting the Irish people to enrich forgien landlords with their wages

We need to elect people to look out for those living here,not enforce corporate interests onto the populace,....PBP were right all along,they called how this would play out years ago

I don't think any TD should enter a dail,which works to keep the population here downtrodden and attempts to justify driving them to destitution