FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Cluedo Monopoly

Marine Layer wrote: »

I'd say now he hasn't
But when you get into government,you get confronted by all the other factors needing considering that oppositions can gloss over because the Euros needed to fund building aren't registered to vote

I see.

So why is he now saying something needs to be done and quickly?

Give up your oul sins, you're fooling nobody.

Shebean

Marine Layer wrote: »

I think the whole idea of the investment funds being invited in after the crash was to get funds into the building industry and jobs as much as to provide new accomadation when banks werent lending
They were left to tick along since but this mis step by them buying up housing estates will be the undoing of their expansion plans
Its a red line and rightly so
Governments couldnt have been expected 10 years ago to know they might do it 10 years later

Except everyone has been talking about it for years and the response was that we needed private investment. It's nice and all that government have an excuse to hide behind but I don't think anyone believes the situation is news to them or a surprise. They've been making this bed for years.
They could and should have put restraints on vulture/investment funds years and years ago because they knew and were told.
It's like giving tax cuts on matches to pyromaniacs and claiming you didn't know they'd try burn everything.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I see.

So why is he now saying something needs to be done and quickly?

Give up your oul sins, you're fooling nobody.

I don't look at it negatively like that
A government with over 3 years to run with a big majority could ignore the problem and bluff about new rental capacity or something
They are not
That is a positive thing to my mind

Floppybits

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/DarraghObrienTD/videos/planning-and-development-amendment-first-time-buyers-bill-2019/538856890250751/

Here is the speech from O'Brien in 2019.



The bill did not get past the 2nd stage.

Embarassing that he forgot all this

I see FF are trying to put the responsibility on Paschal now. Coalition of chaos!

What happened that the bill did not get past 2nd stage?

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

What happened that the bill did not get past 2nd stage?

A money message,probably

Fann Linn

Floppybits wrote: »

Hang on are you saying that people of the state being unable to buy houses because they are being snapped up en-masse by investor funds so that they can make profit by charging extortionate rents is hyperbole?

Even when their Party Leaders say it's wrong and they're going to change the scheme the die hard cult members on here won't accept it.

Floppybits

Fann Linn wrote: »

Even when their Party Leaders say it's wrong and they're going to change the scheme the die hard cult members on here won't accept it.

Imagine one of them said it was hyperbole. One of the biggest issues in the last election with Health and homelessness and they say its hyperbole. We have Henry Street in Dublin turned into a homeless campsite and Vulture funds buying up whole estates which has been known about by all parties in the Dail and now its hyperbole because it has come and bitten them on the ass.

corazon

You are bidding against yourself when you go to buy a house in Ireland. Your own tax money is the other major bidder. The only winner is the person who gets the subsidized housing.

Wrex

I have heard Leo Varadkar on a number of occasions claiming 65 to 70% own their own property in the state , but for me this seems inflated. In Dublin especially, would not be close to that, is he including a whole family with kids to come up with that number!

Be interested to see evidence or source of information for the stats quoted.

Necro

Threads merged, we do not need another standalone Leo Varadkar thread thank you very much!

Jinglejangle69

Floppybits wrote: »

Imagine one of them said it was hyperbole. One of the biggest issues in the last election with Health and homelessness and they say its hyperbole. We have Henry Street in Dublin turned into a homeless campsite and Vulture funds buying up whole estates which has been known about by all parties in the Dail and now its hyperbole because it has come and bitten them on the ass.

Are you aware the councils and immigration NGOs and charities are also buying up new houses exactly the same as these vulture funds to rent out as social housing.

Where's the outrage from the opposition to these groups stopping people from buying their first home?

Who are these vulture funds renting the houses too?

People are still been housed in them, so I've no idea why you think we wouldn't have tents if they didn't buy them.

Wrex

Wrex wrote: »

I have heard Leo Varadkar on a number of occasions claiming 65 to 70% own their own property in the state , but for me this seems inflated. In Dublin especially, would not be close to that, is he including a whole family with kids to come up with that number!

Be interested to see evidence or source of information for the stats quoted.

This from the Times from last December.

“Homeownership rates in the Republic have fallen significantly since the financial crash, while the number of households renting has risen by 56 per cent, according to the Central Statistics Office (CSO).
The changing nature of household tenure in the State is detailed in the CSO’s latest tenure and household figures, which draw on a range of data sources including the most recent population census.
They show the percentage of households in the Republic that owned their home outright or with a mortgage fell from 74.7 per cent in 2006 to 67.6 per cent in 2016.
Within this, the number who owned their homes with a mortgage experienced the steepest decline, falling from 40.6 per cent to 31.6 per cent during the 10-year period.” https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/home-ownership-in-republic-falls-as-renting-levels-soar-1.4433012

Triangle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'd wonder are they communicating with one another at all.

They are Definatly communicating. I know for a fact the greens are causing stink over the lack of progress on housing and the lack of progressive change.
But it's all behind closed doors.

Cilldara_2000

Triangle wrote: »

They are Definatly communicating. I know for a fact the greens are causing stink over the lack of progress on housing and the lack of progressive change.
But it's all behind closed doors.

I know the Greens are generally bad at politics but this would be incredibly bad even for them. They should be leaking their outrage left, right and centre to have any chance of avoiding another 2011 at the next election.

Fann Linn

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Are you aware the councils and immigration NGOs and charities are also buying up new houses exactly the same as these vulture funds to rent out as social housing.

Where's the outrage from the opposition to these groups stopping people from buying their first home?

Who are these vulture funds renting the houses too?

People are still been housed in them, so I've no idea why you think we wouldn't have tents if they didn't buy them.

Govt parties are outraged too.

corazon

corazon wrote: »

You are bidding against yourself when you go to buy a house in Ireland. Your own tax money is the other major bidder. The only winner is the person who gets the subsidized housing.

Indeed,DCC bought 265 houses and apartments in 2018,directly in competition with joe public
Who was it that was in charge of DCC at the time ?
Can't be giviving out about vulture funds rightly without giving out about themselves rightly as well
Thats opposition for you
You can promise rockets to the moon,milk aswell as honey

CDarby

chickens coming home to roost, they knew fine well what was going on but did nothing to stem it, because these cuckoo fund guys were serving a useful purpose. unfortunate for them, the cat is now out of the bag.
They think they had it bad at the last election, when their vote share fell, with exit polls citing health and housing for people's main reason for abandoning the traditional power swap fellas.

I genuinely have not seen such anger over various social media pages, television shows and radio programs in years. FF and FG look set for the opposition benches, I really cannot see how the opposition cannot be the only winners due to this. Govts are meant to govern and protect its people, not private entities and speculators, small accidental landlords crucified with taxes, while these fellas come in from overseas with their exorbitant wealth and pay none.

I genuinely fear for my kids that they'll ever be able to afford their own place without waiting for my wife and I to pass away first.

Peoole defending or excusing it are a disgrace.

skimpydoo

When ministers say the vulture funds buying housing estates amounts to 1% of all private buying, they forget to mention that if a housing estate is bought by vulture fund it is marked down as if they have bought just one property. Why is this allowed to happen? This will naturally skew how sales are reported.

I keep reading on here that FFG are serious about tackling this? If they were they can add in the relevant amendments to Darragh O'Briens new bill, and have the bill voted on and passed next week. The longer they wait on doing something, the more it looks they are all mouth and no trousers.

Fann Linn

Marine Layer wrote: »

Indeed,DCC bought 265 houses and apartments in 2018,directly in competition with joe public
Who was it that was in charge of DCC at the time ?
Can't be giviving out about vulture funds rightly without giving out about themselves rightly as well
Thats opposition for you
You can promise rockets to the moon,milk aswell as honey

Where else should DCC put their tenants? Tents on Henry Street?

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

Where else should DCC put their tenants? Tents on Henry Street?

Out beyond the m50 with the rest of us plebs. :pac:

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

Where else should DCC put their tenants? Tents on Henry Street?

Maybe build houses on public land with the money??
They had the resources and under SF they went out and competed with joe public for houses and apartments
Sauce for the goose sauce for the gander
Oppositions nearly always disappoint when they get into power

Cluedo Monopoly

Emer Higgins (FG) really struggling on the Tonight Show re Housing & Cuckoo funds. FF must have insisted FG help them stop the bleeding on the airwaves. But it's clear that they haven't readily available solutions even though FF started making it a political issue 3 years ago.
I wonder will Labour introduce the 2019 O'Brien bill tomorrow. Hopefully.

skimpydoo

This does not look good.

https://twitter.com/wereontheditch/status/1390407694725619717?s=20

deise08

Wasn't sure where to post this...

When politicians appear on TV shows, do they get paid to appear?

Cluedo Monopoly

Strong words from Roisin Shortall.

https://twitter.com/RoisinShortall/status/1390279846098620420

I cannot see FFG getting out of this toxic mess without major damage to both.

Let’s hope this means a massive building program ASAP. We need the homes and we want to buy them. If this doesn’t kick FFFGG in the arse I think this time the electorate will.

Floppybits

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Strong words from Roisin Shortall.

https://twitter.com/RoisinShortall/status/1390279846098620420

I cannot see FFG getting out of this toxic mess without major damage to both.

According to a few on here this is all just hyperbole.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Strong words from Roisin Shortall.

https://twitter.com/RoisinShortall/status/1390279846098620420

I cannot see FFG getting out of this toxic mess without major damage to both.

God Bless your innocence. TDs in opposition doing what they always do. Blame the government. Yet don’t come up with workable solutions. Shocking.

Cluedo Monopoly

Deleted User wrote: »

God Bless your innocence. TDs in opposition doing what they always do. Blame the government. Yet don’t come up with workable solutions. Shocking.

It's exactly what O'Brien himself did in 2019 when he introduced his bill

Someday I hope to be as politically astute as the blinkered FFG fans

EddieN75

Labour threatening to use O'Brien's own bill backing the government into a corner.

All bluster and rubbish.

Just go ahead and do it. Don't be playing tough on twitter or tiktok just go ahead and propose the bill.

It's all fluff. They are all the same as each other. The entire population no matter which party they follow are hoodwinked and distracted.

Power, 90k a year. Massive expenses, golden pension with a big lump sum.

It's just a job

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

God Bless your innocence. TDs in opposition doing what they always do. Blame the government. Yet don’t come up with workable solutions. Shocking.

Opposition threatening to introduce the very bill the minister himself introduced (word for word) in 2019.

The bolded words couldn't have been typed out by a better user account.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Opposition threatening to introduce the very bill the minister himself introduced (word for word) in 2019.

The bolded words couldn't have been typed out by a better user account.

What’s keeping them? Time to pee or get off the pot.

blanch152

howwatermelon wrote: »

Let’s hope this means a massive building program ASAP. We need the homes and we want to buy them. If this doesn’t kick FFFGG in the arse I think this time the electorate will.

The problem is that there is no solution.

People want to be able to live in 4-bed semi-detatched houses with a garden within easy commuting of work. That just isn't possible on sustainability grounds.

There are houses available in Dublin for less than 200k, but they are in parts of Darndale, Balbriggan, Tallaght and the inner city where people don't want to live.

The reason investment funds are needed to fund apartment building in the city centre is because Irish people, while happy to rent an apartment, won't buy them. Where they are bought, it is by Irish private investors who only can afford two or three properties, resulting in a mish-mash of amateur landlords.

Cluedo Monopoly

Explosive interview on Claire Byrne just now. Kate O'Connell (FG) went to town on Leo.

CarProblem

blanch152 wrote: »

The problem is that there is no solution.

People want to be able to live in 4-bed semi-detatched houses with a garden within easy commuting of work. That just isn't possible on sustainability grounds.

There are houses available in Dublin for less than 200k, but they are in parts of Darndale, Balbriggan, Tallaght and the inner city where people don't want to live.

Let them eat cake

The above attitude is usually taken by people living in 4-bed semi-detatched houses with a garden within easy commuting of work/city centre

CarProblem

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Out beyond the m50 with the rest of us plebs. :pac:

This is also an issue, people who pay tax and their own way commuting from Meath/Kildare which social housing is provided within the City. Utterly ridiculous

blanch152

CarProblem wrote: »

Let them eat cake

The above attitude is usually taken by people living in 4-bed semi-detatched houses with a garden within easy commuting of work/city centre

I live in Dublin 15, a fair way and a fair distance from the south Dublin area that I grew up in. It causes me considerable trouble and expense in looking after my remaining elderly parent. That is the way of it, I don't complain, I get on with it.

There simply isn't enough land to build houses where people want to live, and when there is available land, it is much better used for higher density apartments.

Some examples below of the 129 houses available for under 250k in Dublin right now. However, these just aren't good enough for many of those complaining.


https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/9-summerhill-place-north-city-centre-dublin-1/4450510

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/14-lower-rutland-street-north-city-centre-dublin-1/4459014

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/66-bremore-pastures-way-balbriggan-county-dublin/4418526

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/57-bealing-walk-bealing-village-tyrrelstown-dublin-15/4499042

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/1-sundale-villas-tallaght-dublin-24/4472673

There definitely isn’t enough land left in Dublin to build the types of houses people want. Irish attitudes to apartments need to change and as long as they’re well managed complexes I wouldn’t have a problem buying one. But the legacy of things like Priory Hall has people spooked on apartments for sure. However, this is not a Dublin specific problem anymore. House prices are starting to rocket where I am, far past what is affordable and new houses are few and far between, and built in areas where there’s barely a road let alone a shop, school or crèche etc.
I think the want of an A rated top of the range home on the cheap is a bit of an attitude change from a buyers perspective. If spec was lower, maybe they’d be more affordable. The problem also lies with the banks, it’s exceedingly difficult to get a mortgage with enough left to renovate a house so even those cheap options in Dublin become expensive very quickly and gentrification doesn’t seem to happen too often in this country. I don’t know what it’s going to take at this stage but the fact remains, not everyone earns enough to buy one at current rates and something has to give or everyone will be homeless. The social contract could disintegrate very quickly very soon if we are not careful.

AlmightyCushion

Can we stop with this nonsense that Irish people only want to live in a house. I'm in my thirties and live in Dublin and I know tonnes of Irish people that would happily buy an apartment. The problem is (other than price) most of the apartments here are 1 and 2 beds which if you want to have kids is too limiting. We should be building more 3 and 4 bed apartments. Regardless, plenty of Irish people are happy to live in an apartment.

blanch152

howwatermelon wrote: »

There definitely isn’t enough land left in Dublin to build the types of houses people want. Irish attitudes to apartments need to change and as long as they’re well managed complexes I wouldn’t have a problem buying one. But the legacy of things like Priory Hall has people spooked on apartments for sure. However, this is not a Dublin specific problem anymore. House prices are starting to rocket where I am, far past what is affordable and new houses are few and far between, and built in areas where there’s barely a road let alone a shop, school or crèche etc.
I think the want of an A rated top of the range home on the cheap is a bit of an attitude change from a buyers perspective. If spec was lower, maybe they’d be more affordable. The problem also lies with the banks, it’s exceedingly difficult to get a mortgage with enough left to renovate a house so even those cheap options in Dublin become expensive very quickly and gentrification doesn’t seem to happen too often in this country. I don’t know what it’s going to take at this stage but the fact remains, not everyone earns enough to buy one at current rates and something has to give or everyone will be homeless. The social contract could disintegrate very quickly very soon if we are not careful.

The social contract is at risk. At the moment, the hyperbole and hysteria of the opposition on this issue provides some escape valve. The real awakening would happen if those parties ever got into power and people began to realise that they cannot deliver.

At the end of the day, as you point out, land is finite.

blanch152

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Can we stop with this nonsense that Irish people only want to live in a house. I'm in my thirties and live in Dublin and I know tonnes of Irish people that would happily buy an apartment. The problem is (other than price) most of the apartments here are 1 and 2 beds which if you want to have kids is too limiting. We should be building more 3 and 4 bed apartments. Regardless, plenty of Irish people are happy to live in an apartment.

You make a good point on 3 and 4 bed apartments. Only 82 apartments for sale in Dublin with at least 3 bedrooms:

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/dublin/apartment-for-sale?minbeds=3

On the other hand, 1607 houses:

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/dublin/property-for-sale?types=37|38|39|40|48&minbeds=3

AlmightyCushion

blanch152 wrote: »

You make a good point on 3 and 4 bed apartments. Only 82 apartments for sale in Dublin with at least 3 bedrooms:

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/dublin/apartment-for-sale?minbeds=3

On the other hand, 1607 houses:

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/dublin/property-for-sale?types=37|38|39|40|48&minbeds=3

82. Feck. Didn't realise it was that bad. At least 1 is a duplicate listing as well and 1 is a student apartment so only for investment purposes. So, it's actually only 80. 41 of those 80 are over 500k. Only 1 has more than 3 bedrooms and it is 750k. So, yeah Irish people won't buy apartments. Maybe because there are feck all apartments suitable for families.

Cluedo Monopoly

This by-election will be interesting.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0507/1216929-kate-oconnell-by-election/

Ms O'Connell told RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne that she does not appear to have the support of the party leadership and appears not to be "the desired candidate for Fine Gael in the Dublin South by-election".

She said that there was "a movement towards the replacement of me with someone else" by a faction in the party that is very hard to combat and that she had not anticipated.

Jim twisting the knife too.

Dublin Bay South Fianna Fáil TD Jim O'Callaghan said that on a personal level he is disappointed that Ms O'Connell will not be running, but that Fine Gael has done his party candidates a great favour by not putting the former TD forward for election.

Kate said her family had been in FG for generations and made some reference at the very end to "Authentic Fine Gaeler" friends. I must go back and re-examine that meaning.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11305694

Starts at 6m30s
.

Floppybits

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

This by-election will be interesting.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0507/1216929-kate-oconnell-by-election/



Jim twisting the knife too.



Kate said her family had been in FG for generations and made some reference at the very end to "Authentic Fine Gaeler" friends. I must go back and re-examine that meaning.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11305694

Starts at 6m30s
.

Heard the interview with O'Connell thought it was amusing and wondered who in their right mind would get involved with a political party.

You could hear the glee in O'Callaghans voice when he came on after O'Connell.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/delay-banning-cuckoo-funds-costs-e53m-in-lost-property-every-week/

Every day the government delays banning cuckoo funds from bulk-buying residential homes, millions of euro of property is taken out of the reach of ordinary buyers, according to Social Democrats Housing Spokesperson Cian O’Callaghan.

“Cuckoo funds are spending €53m a week on average, bulk-buying housing estates and apartment complexes in Dublin and the commuter belt.

“Often, they are buying these homes straight off the plans, which means that even if the government were to act today, the problem of cuckoo funds’ monopolising of the residential property market would remain for years.

“In just the first three months of this year, despite the slow-down in construction caused by the lockdown, cuckoo funds spent nearly €700m on homes and apartments.

Phenomenal numbers. First time buyers must be livid.

The FFG cabinet will be hiding all weekend methinks.

Cluedo Monopoly

At least the cuckoo funds know the risks! :eek:

https://twitter.com/Aidan_Regan/status/1390598825547550721

Incredible. Click on the highlighted text to see the detail.

Shebean

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

At least the cuckoo funds know the risks! :eek:

https://twitter.com/Aidan_Regan/status/1390598825547550721

Incredible. Click on the highlighted text to see the detail.

It's an inconvenient problem. The government need to be seen to complain about it while not really doing anything about it.
Between people calling the problem manufactured and others acting like the very idea is a shock, it's interesting times.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/delay-banning-cuckoo-funds-costs-e53m-in-lost-property-every-week/



Phenomenal numbers. First time buyers must be livid.

The FFG cabinet will be hiding all weekend methinks.

Any idea of how many properties they actually bought? It’d be a better figure to judge from rather than the amount of money. Thanks.

timmyntc

Deleted User wrote: »

Any idea of how many properties they actually bought? It’d be a better figure to judge from rather than the amount of money. Thanks.

At a guess, between 1500-2000 units depending on price

Jinglejangle69

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/delay-banning-cuckoo-funds-costs-e53m-in-lost-property-every-week/



Phenomenal numbers. First time buyers must be livid.

The FFG cabinet will be hiding all weekend methinks.

These are been bought and rented to the council who then houses people.

If they didn't those people would probably be "homeless"

And we would have opposition parties crying about all the homeless people.