FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986592#Comment_117986592

Let's take a step back from this comment.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are preforming so poorly, they need to be defended as a unit to try save face.

Even ten or fifteen years ago this would be considered a doomsday scenario and unbelievable fantasy. This is were the civil war parties are at. Dark times.

Based on their records in office do you believe they'll last four years? Martin will be out either retired or fired by FF and if not he'll not hang around to support FG after their ministers making a fool of him.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988461#Comment_117988461

I will. Not tied to any party. It's great. Stops you making a fool of yourself.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988513#Comment_117988513

MM was always going to retire, hardly a massive shock to anyone. You are rumbled with the poll, hilarious SF thought it was a "win". It remind me of the "we won da election"

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988554#Comment_117988554

🤣

Yes of course you are.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988564#Comment_117988564

Very childish comment. You seem to put more weight in polls than I do. They are often a good gauge tbf.

As I said you are relying on combining FF and FG. That's poor.

As regards SF winning the election, anyone doing better than FF/FG should be commended. There was a time talk of such a thing would be laughed at. SF were on 4 and 5 percent 15 years ago.

So you believe the government will be in for four years but also believe MM will retire before then? If MM goes so too will FG's go at leading.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988665#Comment_117988665

I've never had to change my opinion or pretend I never held it based on a party flip flopping 😎

If PBP were being used by government supporters to try make FF/FG/Green look good, I'd be in there just as much.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988989#Comment_117988989

Everything is childish when you don't agree with it, afraid of other opinions?

I don't rate polls at all, but everyone rates them here when it tells the story they want, when it doesn't then polls are useless. Notice all the back tracking today

The only poll I care about is the general election.

I haven't said I was relying on any party combining, I am just saying the comments on here constantly about the "coalition of chaos", "ff have no voter anymore" etc etc etc are all wrong based on this poll.

You are jumping to the wrong assumption. I am nearly 99% sure if I didn't point out about the government parties close to the same result they got at the election this thread would be full of people shouting about how terrible the government is, you included based on your previous posts.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989024#Comment_117989024

Your tone and comments were childish. I didn't see much of an opinion.

TBF, they are god awful and when they try to explain themselves come off worse.

So you do credit polls? Which is it? I've not made any such claims.

The government are rehashing failed policies in the face of numerous crises. They've also failed on Slaintecare.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982204#Comment_117982204

Dudley you still haven't answered my question. If the MNC's left Ireland where would they go?

By avoiding answering my question, you have shown you don't have a clue.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989387#Comment_117989387

No it doesn’t, will leave you to it. Thanks

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989505#Comment_117989505

Is that because you can't answer?

Dempo1

Pascal on explaining his capitulation, quite a turn of events, what was it said "unmitigated disaster if we loose the 12.5%"

He's terribly excited about getting rid of 'at least' from the agreement. Meanwhile sulking Leo maintains Ireland will loose €2billion a year as a result. Very confusing stuff, a tiny amount of companies will be affected and let's be honest, they are never going to pay 15% , wink, wink. The remainder not affected and I'm pretty confident few actually pay 12.5%.

In a nut shell, a pile of nonsense but satisfying watching Leo and Paschal eating humble pie.

Bubbaclaus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989654#Comment_117989654

A tiny amount of companies? It's estimated it impacts over 1,500 companies here that directly employ 500,000 people.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961992#Comment_117961992

Yeah but insurance companies, private hospitals and private consultants have little interest in all that

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989654#Comment_117989654

I am not sure what you are ranting and raving about. Plenty of people have written documents/articles on the issues with the changes. Best to read them and then decide instead of just jumping for joy because FG are in government. Seems a lot of biting off your nose to spite your face.

RandomViewer

Donahue looking greasy and unsettled on the news

Dempo1

Quite a week in fairness

Farce of the Alledged National Plan which kind of reminds me of Blackadders Cunning plans, promise everything, offer no time line on commitments, hope we'll get re elected, wait a while and launch the same NDP again, hoping people will forget the last one. They must seriously think people are fools. The Greens hoping nothing will actually be developed, especially ghastly Road infrastructure projects. Eamonn Ryan couldn't even wait for the re launch to undermine it.

The great 12.5% capitulation (albeit the dogs on the street knew they'd do what they are told eventually)

Housing for all continuing to be ridiculed

Darragh O Brien inviting opposition to take some of the heat when it comes to a mica decision.

Squabbling within FG Parliament party , despite the denials.

SF poll results impressive, Gosh even FF up a little, FG? Well let's not go there .

MM having a great week , keeping under the Radar and letting Leo dig a bigger and bigger hole .

Anita Blow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989654#Comment_117989654

It's not the headline rate which is disaster, it's the new rules on where companies will pay tax that will hit Ireland's revenues (Multinationals will no longer be able to book global revenues through Ireland and instead have to book them in the country they were generated)

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989708#Comment_117989708

100,000 according to Pascal himself and tiny in respect of many, many , many more companies it won't affect. I also don't believe anywhere near 1500 companies affected. It would seem 10 companies account for the vast majority of corporation tax collected, I would think if this is the case ,receipts will be higher not €2Billion less than Leo is kite flying about. Intel especially, are they going to pack up and live a €2 billion unfinished construction site behind, I doubt it.

Unless of course he's expecting, Apple, Intel , FB etc to head back to the USA and still pay 15%

More makey up stories to cover the fact, they've had their bottoms spanked and trying to put on a brave face. Bedsides are we seriously to believe companies like Apple will ever, ever pay 15%

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990119#Comment_117990119

You mean the Shenanigans is being stopped, seems reasonable to me, leaving Ireland won't change that .

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990119#Comment_117990119

You are wasting your time trying to explain around here.

Ireland has lost a huge advantage now in attracting companies and jobs and we have people happy about it, baffling carry on.

It should be telling to people that all the other countries want this so they can squeeze ireland out but seemingly not

Bubbaclaus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990165#Comment_117990165

It's 100,000 employees of Irish multinationals and 400,000 employees of global multinationals based in Ireland. So 500,000 employees of approx 1,500 companies, not far off a quarter of the total workforce in the country directly employed by these entities. And not even started accounting for those indirectly employed.

To claim hardly any company here is impacted by the OECD agreement is just not factually correct.

I'm also unclear as to what you are trying to claim about the 2bn per year loss this will cause for Ireland. Are you suggesting it was made up or something like that? That is what the analysis arrived at applying the proposed pillars of the OECD agreement to Ireland and is not being disputed by anyone. This agreement will have a negative impact on Ireland's corporation tax receipts. That's not in doubt.

Galwayguy35

It will be a good test to see if companies really did come here for the well educated workforce the Government were saying was the reason or what everyone already knows was the real reason which is the low corpo tax.

We are a small island cut off from the rest of Europe since Brexit, its time to get real and accept a lot less companies will be coming here from now on.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990212#Comment_117990212

A lot of companies originally came here with manufacturing/call centres etc. After a while it proved cheaper to move these to other regions and Ireland had to change. We seen what happened to Limerick after Dell pulled the majority out, not just to the employees but I think it was mentioned over 4k eggs per day went into those offices.

Since then the software development jobs etc have started to move into Ireland. We have the advantage we are in Europe so people can move over here from within Europe without a visa requirement and our second benefit is our corpo tax. So it wasn't just the educated of Ireland, it was of Europe we could pull on. The main thing as well as bringing in these people, they earned wages, paid tax, pushed money into the economy etc

Now we have lost the advantage, you will have the likes of France/Germany/Spain etc all going after these jobs. Question is what country would you prefer to move to if you want to bring the best of Europe, Ireland with pissing rain or a nice part of Spain with a lower cost of living?

We are going to start losing, maybe slowly but it will speed up as other countries go after the jobs we have. Yet we have people here overjoyed at the prospect. We are heading back to kids moving overseas to get work. This will turn out to be a terrible day for Ireland in years to come.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990210#Comment_117990210

I'm not claiming it, Leo is.

Bottom line is really quite simple, Ireland had Zero option to sign up , its a global agreement and this scare mongering nonsense on how this will impact anything is absurd. What's even more farcical is Leo & Paschal foolishly spouting nonsense about not accepting the inevitable and then guess what, accepting the inevitable.

I'm only repeating what Paschal said at his capitulation press conference, namely, it will have zero impact on the vast majority of companies based in Ireland. This aside, those impacted , what ate they going to do, say at least its not 21%, they are going nowhere and as I've said, it's highly unlikely multinationals will ever, ever pay 15%

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990195#Comment_117990195

An immoral advantage that lumped us in with other tax havens and banana republics. Still work to do on getting rid of that image.

Bubbaclaus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990287#Comment_117990287

I'm confused, what are you suggesting Varadkar is claiming exactly? The 2bn annual loss to the exchequer? He wouldn't have anything to do with quantifying the corporation tax hole in Ireland caused by the proposed OECD agreement, hence why I feel I must be picking you up your point wrong here.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990288#Comment_117990288

Build to rent investors in the U.S. where having seminars about how great Ireland was for making a killing off the cowboy government. Taken for mugs and used while FF/FG patted each other on the head. The backroom dealing FF/FG had to pay the piper at some point. They made millionaires and billionaires richer while the tax paying Irish got shat on.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990422#Comment_117990422

😂

Not the truth, but fun to read the made up stories here.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990433#Comment_117990433

Point out the lies please.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990441#Comment_117990441

All of it. Well maybe the section on US companies saying how great Ireland is was true. The rest is rubbish.

Jinglejangle69

Well look, the opposition have wanted this for years so maybe it's a good thing seems they have all the answers.

Murph85

Taxing low wage peasants at a 50% marginal tax rate and allowing companies with more money than God pay nothing....

Sounds fair alright , decades of ffg BS!

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990570#Comment_117990570

Link to companies with more money than god pay nothing please?

Just so you know the money the low wage peasants pay 50% of comes from.........

These companies.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990460#Comment_117990460

So just playing defence. Does it get tiring?

You disagree. I get you back FF/FG 100% but other people are allowed opinions without the party faithful making false claims thank you very much.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990593#Comment_117990593

Playing defence? You are talking about people jobs here. So Yes I am playing defence. Everyone should be playing defence

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990570#Comment_117990570

These companies brought in millions to Ireland, people earned millions, spent millions, they gave millions in tax, indirectly they also created jobs and made millions......

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990605#Comment_117990605

I think Murph and his ilk won't be satisfied until these evil corporations leave Ireland for good.

That will teach them.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990615#Comment_117990615

That what it would seem, back to the good old days of moving to England/US when you leave school, or maybe you can struggle to pay for college and then leave for abroad.

Great times

Furze99

All the main parties have been rattling on for years that any change to the mythical 12.5% corporation tax that was apparently laid down by Moses, would wreck us.

All the recent 'debate' clearly shows that they really haven't a clue of it's effect or otherwise. It was just a mantra. Disliking change because afraid of some big bad bogeyman.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990694#Comment_117990694

They made Ireland a crooked joke. Now they are forced to mend their ways they are all out pretending they decided to do this latest flip flop. What complete losers. I feel for their shills not knowing where to stand on a given topic.

MBE220d

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/1007/1251240-northern-ireland-centenary/

I see the government is sending these 2 stooges up north to pay homage to the British, fooking traitors,

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990633#Comment_117990633

Another harbinger of doom post. The days of cronyism on an international scale are over as well as domestically.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990912#Comment_117990912

Jaysus, the government members on the tonight gave a mixed performance... Jennifer's Nelson Mandela comparison was so unintelligent and offensive

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991043#Comment_117991043

What else would you expect from the super woke FG's most elite Jennifer, Willie O Dea, not too happy about the arrangement.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990593#Comment_117990593

Dudley loves to make claims and when asked to back them up he goes silent. He still won't say where the MNC's who he thinks will leave Ireland will go to.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988294#Comment_117988294

Again, what are you on about?

There is no tax harmonisation in the EU, so joining the EU does not mean we have to give up our ability to set our own tax rates.

https://europa.eu/european-union/topics/taxation_en

The EU does not have a direct role in collecting taxes or setting tax rates. The amount of tax each citizen pays is decided by their national government, along with how the collected taxes are spent.

Not for the first time you are incorrect about this yet you repeat the same lie, fake news and falsehoods to air your opinion.

It would be like joining a golf club that sets some rules around dress codes and the like which you accept, yet joining a golf club doesn't let the club captain come to your house once a year and sleep with your wife, does it now?

I see the way you continuously throw out buzzwords like a pejorative. Do you know who is the most anti-EU party in the state? The main opposition party.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988414#Comment_117988414

I put multinational in a search and found you comparing any move to tax multinationals to making us like Serbia at our peril 

Eh, no, that is not what I said. You have the quote in black and white and I never mentioned taxes.....

Try again.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990195#Comment_117990195

The same people using the Corporation Tax issue to take aim at the government need to realise that they are on their own on this one.

Only the likes of Paul Murphy and PBP supported the measure. Even SF would have done what FF and FG have done.....

But if it gives the government a bloody nose, regardless if it's bad for the nation, then who cares right?

I swear, some people would love it if Ireland reverted to being an economic black hole so that they can be 'proven right online' Says a lot about them tbh.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990912#Comment_117990912

😂

Next week you will be talking about a United Ireland.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990615#Comment_117990615

Lads, I have run several companies over the years. I am aware of their contribution, it's nowhere near enough... it's an absolute pittance given their revenue...