US Police killing of 13 year old Adam Toledo

Mic 1972

UDAWINNER wrote: »

Unarmed Child shot dead, is anyone honestly defending this. Cop should be in jail. Does anyone believe this would happen if the Child was white. Racist Country

The answer is yes, stop with the racist narrative.
The cops aren't going away, crime has to

drkpower

breezy1985 wrote: »

I already have.

Copy and paste it; if you wouldn’t mind

Mic 1972

Overheal wrote: »

I'm stating to you that the post I quoted and wrote a reply to on a new page was your first edit. Your second edit was unbeknownst.

Not sure where you want to go with this.
Bad parenting is the biggest issue.

Overheal

Without knowing anything about the parents, I have no basis to agree or disagree. All of which is not to say that the best most morally upstanding and hardworking loving parents can't still be parents to someone who goes on to become a convicted criminal or something.

What bad parenting happened here, which are proven and not simply extrapolated from "kid, 2AM, gun?" What do you want the public to do in response to this thesis that bad parenting is the locus? How can a government solve that problem? What are your solutions? How does your solution prevent this in the future and how effective and feasible is it.

Mic 1972

Overheal wrote: »

Without knowing anything about the parents, I have no basis to agree or disagree. All of which is not to say that the best most morally upstanding and hardworking loving parents can't still be parents to someone who goes on to become a convicted criminal or something.

What bad parenting happened here, which are proven and not simply extrapolated from "kid, 2AM, gun?" What do you want the public to do in response to this thesis that bad parenting is the locus? How can a government solve that problem? What are your solutions? How does your solution prevent this in the future and how effective and feasible is it.

Parenting is key in raising mentally healthy adults.

What examples are they setting? are they around their kids? do they talk to them?
Parents who don't know that their kid is out at night with a gun aren't doing a good job, it is their responsibility to make sure their kids don't fall for the crime culture to begin with.

OMM 0000

breezy1985 wrote: »

Didn't ignore anything I just think a child should not be shot dead even if guilty of something.

I bet if it was the British army who shot a 13 year old standing at a barricade a lot of people here would be singing a different tune

I completely agree, we should let children shoot and kill people. You have to be an insane white suprematist or transphobe to have an issue with that.

..

I fully expect to see you and Overheal agree paedophilia is acceptable when your radical American masters tell you so. We all know that day is coming. We're already at the phase of children should be allowed kill people, as you and Overheal are clearly explaining.

Ckendrick

Effects wrote: »

I'm saying that nothing has come to light about the two suspects shooting at people, as you suggested.

Do you think that the police officer decided to chase a young teenager down an alley at 3am for absolutely no reason? Why do you think he was chasing him? Do you agree that if there’s reports that there’s a young teenager with a loaded gun, and a police officer spots what appears to be a young teenager with a loaded that he/she has to apprehend the teenager?

Beasty

OK, if you cannot be civil do not post

If you do decide to be uncivil or abusive towards other users please do no complain if posting privileges are removed

If you do have an issue with a post or poster report it and leave the modding to the mods

Overheal

Ckendrick wrote: »

Do you think that the police officer decided to chase a young teenager down an alley at 3am for absolutely no reason? Why do you think he was chasing him? Do you agree that if there’s reports that there’s a young teenager with a loaded gun, and a police officer spots what appears to be a young teenager with a loaded that he/she has to apprehend the teenager?

The Supreme Court doesn't think so, incidentally.

More directly: if the cop knew he was armed: why sprint down the alley? Why would it be tactical genius to enter a full sprint to come up behind an armed suspect which he was evidently fearful might kill him? The cop can find no other way to apprehend the suspect? I mean **** I've seen car chases that last hours, foot chases that can last days. Why, if you're afraid of an armed suspect strongly enough to kill them the instant they comply with your directive, why do you need to go there. Why not pursue from distance until backup arrives.

I also, adamantly, refer you to the killing of Tamir Rice based on your question.

RandomName2

BloodBath wrote: »

But he did. You can stop with the mental gymnastics already.

Mental gymnastics?

When he was shot to death he had no weapon. He had his hands up, and had no weapon.

A person has empty hands pointing up, they got shot dead, and you say 'but they were armed'.

That's the mental gymnastics.

As I said, if this was some freak occurrence I'd be more forgiving, but the cops in America always seem to be of the disposition 'If in doubt, fill with lead'

https://www.theonion.com/new-reform-effort-will-require-teenagers-to-undergo-dee-1846699936

https://www.theonion.com/minnesota-deploys-national-guard-ahead-of-next-week-s-p-1846699850

https://www.theonion.com/police-department-to-avoid-future-errors-by-replacing-a-1846676437

https://politics.theonion.com/georgia-lawmakers-warn-stricter-gun-regulation-could-ca-1846545045

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1846698258

https://www.theonion.com/gorilla-sales-skyrocket-after-latest-gorilla-attack-1819574361

As usual, the onion is on point. My favourite is the last one from about 8 years ago.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.theonion.com/new-reform-effort-will-require-teenagers-to-undergo-dee-1846699936

That's all but come up on thread already sans satire.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

That's all but come up on thread already sans satire.

The broader point is that the country doesn't really care about gun control.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

The broader point is that the country doesn't really care about gun control.

Entrenched special interests do not, and enough voters do not that keep them there, but there are a lot of people who live here, the net majority, that do care. Polls consistently find majority opinion supports gun control.

NSAman

Deleted User wrote: »

The broader point is that the country doesn't really care about gun control.

Some don’t care about their kids.

Wtf was a 13 year old doing out at 2am. Why did a 13 year old have a gun? Where the hell were the parents?

The family can make statements to the press but can obviously not look after the child when needed?

While I hate any life taken. The simple fact remains, the parents/guardians are also to blame in this situation.

breezy1985

drkpower wrote: »

Copy and paste it; if you wouldn’t mind

You already replied to it earlier so must have read it. Not sure what stupid game you are trying to play here

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Entrenched special interests do not, and enough voters do not that keep them there, but there are a lot of people who live here, the net majority, that do care. Polls consistently find majority opinion supports gun control.

Fair enough. I probably should have said "doesn't really appear to care about gun control."

1hnr79jr65

I have just watching the police body cam of this shooting and based on what I saw, it appears to be a clean shoot based on the reaction of the teenager turning suddenly with hands. The cop had to make a split second decision knowing the teenager had a gun with how fast he turned after only being giving instruction to raise his hands.

There were comments along the lines of "the cop is a coward for shooting the teenager" posted here, however when your life, colleagues or innocent civilians lives are potentially on the line and someone does not follow instruction clearly making their own reaction, you need to make a call, the cop didn't know the teen had dropped his gun and made a call to stop a possible threat.

It is very easy to take a screen capture from the video after the fact and make a post showing no gun in the hands of the teenager, however it also does not convey the reaction times required and split second decision needing to be made. That cop has a right to go home to his family too and as unfortunate as it is for the teen, he was messing with stuff he should not have done and didn't follow instruction exactly, kept running when told to stop multiple times and threw away the gun with back turned to the cop, then turned fast when asked to show hands.

joseywhales

He had a gun, when you meet the police if you have a gun drop it immediately and hope you don't die. the last few police shootings I absolutely felt the police officers were either incompetent or they were willfully over zealous. But if I put myself in the shows of this officer, after ignored warning and chase and the fact that there was a gun involved, its very understandable, he doesn't have super human senses to know that the kid had dropped the gun. The kid also concealed the weapon, its unfortunate and sad but I dont blame that officer.

lalababa

He had a gun, he had his hands raised, he was picking his nose,his pants were too big for him....who gives a flying fiddlers f##k. Go to bed.

Manic Moran

Overheal wrote: »

The Supreme Court doesn't think so, incidentally.
.

You are misreading Warren. It affirms the concept that the police owe no duty to protect any particular individual, not that the police have no duty to do their job. Their duty is a public duty owed to the public at large.

Basically it states that police cannot be held liable to you if you are a victim of a crime, unless their specific actions are a causal effect. Which is fair, I doubt there are many places where that would be the case. It is -not- an excuse for police not to do their jobs.

"A duty owed to the public, however, is no less enforceable because it is owed to "everybody""

and

"Dereliction in the performance of police duties may, therefore, be redressed only in the context of a public prosecution and not in a private suit for money damages"

A case in point approvingly cited by SCOTUS in Warren was Trautman. Of it, SCOTUS said "The Arizona Superior Court had concluded that the duty of defendants to arrest the reckless drivers was a duty owed to the general public and not to the deceased occupants of the oncoming vehicle. The Arizona Supreme Court agreed"

Here SCOTUS clearly states that there is a duty to arrest. It merely is not enforceable by any individual.

You'd really need to be on crack cocaine to even consider being in the Police in the US. Everyone's allowed access to a handheld killing machine. The Police have to deal with the "bad guys" who also have easy access to them, and when a situation arises where it's the Police officer face to face with the bad guy, they're either wrong, or dead.

Manic Moran

Manic Moran wrote: »

You are misreading Warren. It affirms the concept that the police owe no duty to protect any particular individual, not that the police have no duty to do their job. Their duty is a public duty owed to the public at large.

.

100% - Overheal misinterpreted the case.

BloodBath

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I have just watching the police body cam of this shooting and based on what I saw, it appears to be a clean shoot based on the reaction of the teenager turning suddenly with hands. The cop had to make a split second decision knowing the teenager had a gun with how fast he turned after only being giving instruction to raise his hands.

There were comments along the lines of "the cop is a coward for shooting the teenager" posted here, however when your life, colleagues or innocent civilians lives are potentially on the line and someone does not follow instruction clearly making their own reaction, you need to make a call, the cop didn't know the teen had dropped his gun and made a call to stop a possible threat.

It is very easy to take a screen capture from the video after the fact and make a post showing no gun in the hands of the teenager, however it also does not convey the reaction times required and split second decision needing to be made. That cop has a right to go home to his family too and as unfortunate as it is for the teen, he was messing with stuff he should not have done and didn't follow instruction exactly, kept running when told to stop multiple times and threw away the gun with back turned to the cop, then turned fast when asked to show hands.

The tell that to the usual bunch here. They hate cops and think are expendable while at the same time defending dangerous criminals.

That's the modern far left for you though.

UDAWINNER wrote: »

Unarmed Child shot dead, is anyone honestly defending this. Cop should be in jail. Does anyone believe this would happen if the Child was white. Racist Country

The kid was white. Hispanic origins makes him of Spanish origin. Guess what? That's white to us Europeans. So pathetic putting a race angle on it. Is this how things are now. Any negative interaction between people with slightly different skin color and backgrounds is now racist.

BloodBath

Overheal wrote: »

Without knowing anything about the parents, I have no basis to agree or disagree. All of which is not to say that the best most morally upstanding and hardworking loving parents can't still be parents to someone who goes on to become a convicted criminal or something.

What bad parenting happened here, which are proven and not simply extrapolated from "kid, 2AM, gun?" What do you want the public to do in response to this thesis that bad parenting is the locus? How can a government solve that problem? What are your solutions? How does your solution prevent this in the future and how effective and feasible is it.

No the solution is removing at least 90% of the guns from circulation. That's the only solution but like you said yourself that is not going to happen.

You can fool yourself thinking police reforms or community efforts or whatever is going to have any big impact and maybe it would with enough funding but that requires drastically finding funds from elsewhere like defunding your bloated military and putting it into education and healthcare. You know things that actually benefit society, not destroy it. That's not going to happen either.

I think a large part of your nations gun obsession stems for your bloated military. So you're pretty screwed really.

Standard freedom. Don't you want to be free?

Ckendrick

Effects wrote: »

There's a big difference between someone just shooting a gun, and someone shooting a gun at someone.

So reports of gunshots DONT necessarily require investigation? Is this what your saying??

Graces7

GreeBo wrote: »

Didnt respond? He stopped running and put his empty hands up?

Is there any evidence that they shot at anyone?

This is what actually happened:
2:35 a.m.: Multiple ShotSpotter sensors picked up audio of approximately nine gunshots being fired. A short time later, a call went out over radio with the Office of Emergency Management and Communications of shots fired at 2356 South Sawyer, reporting that at least eight rounds had been fired.

2:36 a.m.: The first of two 911 calls provided by COPA was placed. The caller says they heard “six or seven” shots in the 2300 block of South Sawyer.

“I’m hearing a lot of commotion right now,” the caller, who asked to remain anonymous, reported to dispatchers.

2:37 a.m.: The second of the two 911 calls was placed. The female caller says they heard multiple gunshots.

“I just heard gunshots coming from Cermak and Kedzie,” she says. When the dispatcher asks how many shots were fired, she responds “a lot. More than five.”


2:38 a.m.: An officer’s body camera shows them arriving at the scene and exiting the driver’s side door of their squad vehicle. After colliding with a civilian, the officer begins to chase an individual, identified as Adam Toledo, down an alley.

2:38:35 a.m.: The officer’s body camera audio kicks on, as he yells at Toledo to stop and identifies himself as a police officer.

2:38:39 a.m.: Toledo stops at a gap in the fence. The officer yells at him to “show me your f---ing hands.”

Toledo then turns toward the officer and begins to raise his hands, with the officer yelling at him to “drop it.”

A single gunshot is fired, and Toledo falls to the ground.

Thank you

TomTomTim

UDAWINNER wrote: »

Unarmed Child shot dead, is anyone honestly defending this. Cop should be in jail. Does anyone believe this would happen if the Child was white. Racist Country

This kind of race bating is beyond low, and really shouldn't be tolerated. It's taken straight from the sewers of America, and for some reason people like you want to inject this mindset into our society.

You're wrong too by the way. You won't learn from your "wrongness" either, you'll simply continue to repeat your narratives.

On November 3, 2015, Jeremy Mardis, a six-year-old boy, was killed by police in Marksville, Louisiana, in a shooting that also wounded his father Chris Few. Two Marksville law enforcement officers, Derrick Stafford and Norris Greenhouse Jr., were arrested on charges of second-degree murder and attempted second-degree murder as a result of the incident. The evidence from a police body-worn video camera was cited as being contributory to the speed of the arrests.

OMM 0000

UDAWINNER wrote:

Does anyone believe this would happen if the Child was white?

How many white children are in gangs and do drive by shootings?

Like it or not, if the majority of violent criminals in an area are black, you're going to be way more careful around black suspects. This is human nature and has nothing to do with racism.