Hate crime nonsense

Sofa King Great

I thought it was fairly well established that companies are looking to hire more women and people from different ethnicities. The story mentioned above about the hiring panel is also prevalent in finance.

francois

GarIT wrote: »

I linked one just above in an edited post. In work in one of these orgs and was told to favour women and non Irish people in interviews. https://www.thejournal.ie/recruitment-targets-civil-service-leo-varadkar-5120369-Jun2020/

With respect, that is an opinion from a politician, not evidence of multinational hiring practises

jackboy

francois wrote: »

I'd love to see some evidence for such a sweeping generalisation-disclaimer, I don't work for one

It’s not illegal and it’s not hidden. In fact it is stated policy almost all of the multinationals.

GarIT

francois wrote: »

With respect, that is an opinion from a politician, not evidence of multinational hiring practises

Sure, but I'm saying I have experienced it being put into practice. I don't have evidence that they are, it would be difficult to obtain, other than saying I work there and they definitely are. I don't work in a multinational.

HotDudeLife

Das Reich wrote: »

I though I was the only person to notice this.

Bizarre indeed.


If you were an alien tuning into Irish media, you would swear we are a country populated by African men which Irish white women only date and mate with and the rest of the population are homosexuals (not that there is anything wrong with that).


It's actually hilarious.

HotDudeLife

pottokblue wrote: »

I'm getting worried colleagues at work telling me about Asian Hatecrime in USA don't like the sound cos whatever starts in the USA spreads over...

What they will fail to tell you is that over 90% of the documented attacks on Asians were by Blacks but that doesn't fit the narrative.

HotDudeLife

francois wrote: »

As a "naive" 56 year old who has worked in a variety of companies in a hiring position I beg to differ

You obviously haven't been hiring for a tech company within the past 10 years.



Jesus wept, you are 56 years old man, how can you so proudly defend your argument just based on what you've experienced alone vs others who hire in multinationals which is notorious for this kind of behavior.

GarIT

HotDudeLife wrote: »

You obviously haven't been hiring for a tech company within the past 10 years.



Jesus wept, you are 56 years old man, how can you so proudly defend your argument just based on what you've experienced alone vs others who hire in multinationals which is notorious for this kind of behavior.

To be fair I think he has been quite respectable while disagreeing which is fine IMO, not everyone has the same experiences.

ThunbergsAreGo

GarIT wrote: »

To be fair I think he has been quite respectable while disagreeing which is fine IMO, not everyone has the same experiences.

Also he is right, it is discrimination and should be illegal

jackboy

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Also he is right, it is discrimination and should be illegal

Positive discrimination is typically legal in western countries. Whether right or wrong that is the way it is.

HotDudeLife

GarIT wrote: »

To be fair I think he has been quite respectable while disagreeing which is fine IMO, not everyone has the same experiences.

yeah, i was a bit offensive, i took him up the wrong way. Usually the people defending it are clueless and don't work on facts.


He is right, it should be illegal. Can only imagine what the multinational work force will look like in 10 years.

GarIT

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Also he is right, it is discrimination and should be illegal

Which is my whole point of bringing it up, discrimination or hate crime is only seen as a problem if it goes in one direction and not the other.

eleventh

HotDudeLife wrote: »

Bizarre indeed.


If you were an alien tuning into Irish media, you would swear we are a country populated by African men which Irish white women only date and mate with and the rest of the population are homosexuals (not that there is anything wrong with that).


It's actually hilarious.

It is on one level. I don't watch any of it but can imagine..

It's sad more than anything that Irish people are so insecure, they trip over themselves to impress outsiders.
Look how 'progressive' we are, look how far we've come, etc. At the expense of their own people.
It's not sustainable. The country will be destroyed literally, there is no other end to such self-hating self-destruction.

ThunbergsAreGo

jackboy wrote: »

Positive discrimination is typically legal in western countries. Whether right or wrong that is the way it is.

Discriminating positively for one group means you are discriminating another group negatively.

All that's ok it seems.....

GarIT

eleventh wrote: »

It is on one level. I don't watch any of it but can imagine..

It's sad more than anything that Irish people are so insecure, they trip over themselves to impress outsiders.
Look how 'progressive' we are, look how far we've come, etc. At the expense of their own people.
It's not sustainable. The country will be destroyed literally, there is no other end to such self-hating self-destruction.

Nah, things will keep going, not much will change except the male suicide rate will continue to increase, we'll still get our single email mentioning international men's day on the day while international women's day, and pride, both become a whole week where you get an email reminding you every day for 20 days before it happens and the office is turned pink or rainbow colours but never blue.

Everyone will keep talking about how privileged we are while it seems to me young white males are the worst off and killing themselves more than anyone else. Still have all the responsibility and expectations of years gone by with none of the benefits.

francois

HotDudeLife wrote: »

You obviously haven't been hiring for a tech company within the past 10 years.



Jesus wept, you are 56 years old man, how can you so proudly defend your argument just based on what you've experienced alone vs others who hire in multinationals which is notorious for this kind of behavior.

Wasn't defending anything so please don't patronise me, I'm interested in coherent argument provided by managing HR and specialist talent seekers, not anecdote.
So if you are a specialist in said field, fair enough.

GarIT

francois wrote: »

Wasn't defending anything so please don't patronise me, I'm interested in coherent argument provided by managing HR and specialist talent seekers, not anecdote.
So if you are a specialist in said field, fair enough.

To be clear, I work in tech, not HR, I volunteer in HR as it as seen as good for pomotions and they need someone who can talk tech with the candidates.

B2021M

There should be more focus on individuals getting support to establish their own businesses rather than legislation forcing private companies to have quotas of employees with different characteristics.

GarIT

Also don't forget the 4 women only constituencies for Sinn Fein becasue allowing men to run for elections would put them under their women quota despite a man being liked in one of the areas and one of the favourites in the next election. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40242149.html

Tell me how

GarIT wrote: »

Nah, things will keep going, not much will change except the male suicide rate will continue to increase, we'll still get our single email mentioning international men's day on the day while international women's day, and pride, both become a whole week where you get an email reminding you every day for 20 days before it happens and the office is turned pink or rainbow colours but never blue.

Everyone will keep talking about how privileged we are while it seems to me young white males are the worst off and killing themselves more than anyone else. Still have all the responsibility and expectations of years gone by with none of the benefits.

So go do something about it.

That's what other groups do when they feel they are being mistreated or underappreciated. If you feel men aren't getting the attention they deserve, aren't being treated fairly, are suffering as a consequence, you have 2 choices, do something, or do nothing.

That's what other advocates have done, and are doing. And as you know, they get plenty stick for it, comments on social media, threads about them on discussion boards etc, but, if they feel something is enough of an issue, they are willing to draw attention to it and in many cases, they gain support, the voices grow louder and something is done about it.

Mens mental health is an issue, some online commentators have tried to raise awareness and draw attention to this and certainly on here at least, I've seen posters (not you) rip them to pieces for being attention seekers while also commenting in a similar tone to you above lamenting that men are being undermined, ignored, whatever.

GarIT

Tell me how wrote: »

So go do something about it.

That's what other groups do when they feel they are being mistreated or underappreciated. If you feel men aren't getting the attention they deserve, aren't being treated fairly, are suffering as a consequence, you have 2 choices, do something, or do nothing.

That's what other advocates have done, and are doing. And as you know, they get plenty stick for it, comments on social media, threads about them on discussion boards etc, but, if they feel something is enough of an issue, they are willing to draw attention to it and in many cases, they gain support, the voices grow louder and something is done about it.

Mens mental health is an issue, some online commentators have tried to raise awareness and draw attention to this and certainly on here at least, I've seen posters (not you) rip them to pieces for being attention seekers while also commenting in a similar tone to you above lamenting that men are being undermined, ignored, whatever.

If you do something about it you get called a MRA or mens rights activist and apparently that's toxic and a bad thing. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MRA

Or you get "Not all men" repeated at you with a million likes.

If you do try to talk about men's issues you drowned out by other stuff or told to "sit down" or that my privelage should just buy me out of any issues.

Tell me how

GarIT wrote: »

If you do something about it you get called a MRA or mens rights activist and apparently that's toxic and a bad thing. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MRA

FFS, every single activists started out with being insulted and abused for standing up for whatever cause they were activating for. If they weren't going to face that, then they wouldn't have had to advocate for something in the first place because it would have meant that there was no resistance in society to that which they felt strongly about.

On day 1 you'll probably be ignored, day 2 something will ask you what are you doing, day 3 you'll be insulted but on day 4 there'll probably be someone standing beside you. Think that's wrong? Look at where Greta started and where she got to?

GarIT

Tell me how wrote: »

FFS, every single activists started out with being insulted and abused for standing up for whatever cause they were activating for. If they weren't going to face that, then they wouldn't have had to advocate for something in the first place because it would have meant that there was no resistance in society to that which they felt strongly about.

On day 1 you'll probably be ignored, day 2 something will ask you what are you doing, day 3 you'll be insulted but on day 4 there'll probably be someone standing beside you. Think that's wrong? Look at where Greta started and where she got to?

I get your point, I don't think I'm the right person or capable of doing that. In the last few days, I spoke about my issues with depression on another thread. Part of that is due to how I and other white young (apparently right-wing but I don't think I am) men are treated in modern society.


But I disagree on Greta, she had great support from the start. Also a lot of criticism, but that hasn't really changed for her.

Tell me how

GarIT wrote: »

I get your point, I don't think I'm the right person or capable of doing that. In the last few days, I spoke about my issues with depression on another thread. Part of that is due to how I and other white young (apparently right-wing but I don't think I am) men are treated in modern society.


But I disagree on Greta, she had great support from the start. Also a lot of criticism, but that hasn't really changed for her.

Well maybe next time you see someone on here having a dig at someone who is an advocate for mens mental health or similar, maybe speak up in support of that person.

Or the fact that this is an anonymous platform, maybe advocate for things here rather than denigrating those that are doing so for their causes.

Greta was several months in to her protest before she gained public attention. Even since then, she is the target for ire from many commentators right up to the President of the USA at the time trying to have a swipe at her. And she still persists.

GarIT

Tell me how wrote: »

Well maybe next time you see someone on here having a dig at someone who is an advocate for mens mental health or similar, maybe speak up in support of that person.

Or the fact that this is an anonymous platform, maybe advocate for things here rather than denigrating those that are doing so for their causes.

Greta was several months in to her protest before she gained public attention. Even since then, she is the target for ire from many commentators right up to the President of the USA at the time trying to have a swipe at her. And she still persists.

I would like to think that I am. If there rather than denigrating those that are doing so for their causes is a reference to this thread, I'm here because I believe this legislation will be used as a weapon against white men to treat them worse and won't be applied fairly when they are the victim.

Examples. "Kill all men" is just the name of a political movement and not a threat, nor a reference to all men. "All Cops Are bastards" isn't a comment on all cops, "men are trash" Is just a joke within the LGBT community and you're the problem if you take it as an insult but state the fact that near 50% of Nigerians in Ireland are unemployed and you are prejudiced against all Nigerians and you are apparently literally Hitler.

scottigael

Tell me how wrote: »

FFS, every single activists started out with being insulted and abused for standing up for whatever cause they were activating for. If they weren't going to face that, then they wouldn't have had to advocate for something in the first place because it would have meant that there was no resistance in society to that which they felt strongly about.

On day 1 you'll probably be ignored, day 2 something will ask you what are you doing, day 3 you'll be insulted but on day 4 there'll probably be someone standing beside you. Think that's wrong? Look at where Greta started and where she got to?

You aren't allowed to have an opinion the establishment/big tech does not agree with. You will be deplatformed, not given a fair shake in the media and vilified all around. Do you think drivetime on rte R1 will have a representative from a men's rights group? Not a hope. Oh and your opinion will be outlawed just as is the case with this ridiculous "hate speech" hurt feelings BS law.

Tell me how

GarIT wrote: »

I would like to think that I am. If ther rather than denigrating those that are doing so for their causes is a reference to this thread, I'm here because I believe this legislation will be used as a weapon against white men to treat them worse and wont be applied fairly when they are the victim.

If you think this is likely to happen, did you write to the Dept to express your concerns? Because they literally asked people to do so.

The Minister had a very open and extensive public contribution phase in relation to this legislation. A number of influential public commentators who are against the legislation responded publicly and I presume directly to the dept in relation to their concerns.

Having read the considerations after that phase and before any legislation is published, I don't see anything to suggest that this will be the case. I have no doubt that, as with any laws, the application of them will not be 100% agreeable to everyone but I don't see that as a sufficient reason to not try to do something to make society a more welcoming place for everyone in it.

GarIT

Tell me how wrote: »

If you think this is likely to happen, did you write to the Dept to express your concerns? Because they literally asked people to do so.

The Minister had a very open and extensive public contribution phase in relation to this legislation. A number of influential public commentators who are against the legislation responded publicly and I presume directly to the dept in relation to their concerns.

Having read the considerations after that phase and before any legislation is published, I don't see anything to suggest that this will be the case. I have no doubt that, as with any laws, the application of them will not be 100% agreeable to everyone but I don't see that as a sufficient reason to not try to do something to make society a more welcoming place for everyone in it.

I may have, but I thought that was for separate hate speech legislation rather than stricter punishments for existing crimes. So I'm not sure if there are two separate things being done or that has changed into this.

I don't think this will make anywhere more welcoming to anyone. It's just punishing some criminals more because they are slightly less popular than other criminals.

And I agree from officials publications I haven't seen that, but from the way society is currently I think differently.

Silentcorner

scottigael wrote: »

You aren't allowed to have an opinion the establishment/big tech does not agree with. You will be deplatformed, not given a fair shake in the media and vilified all around. Do you think drivetime on rte R1 will have a representative from a men's rights group? Not a hope. Oh and your opinion will be outlawed just as is the case with this ridiculous "hate speech" hurt feelings BS law.

Expecting media to display balance or restraint is a waste of time.

It was the same back in the 70s when the Church dominated society, not a single journalist made a name for him/herself as a vanguard against the domination let alone a media outlet.

Journalists, and the standards are much worse now, are like thick skulled idiots in a classroom, they'll just keep asking stupid questions all day long and ruin the learning experience for every one else.

Tell me how

Silentcorner wrote: »

Expecting media to display balance or restraint is a waste of time.

It was the same back in the 70s when the Church dominated society, not a single journalist made a name for him/herself as a vanguard against the domination.

Journalists, and the standards are much worse now, are like thick skulled idiots in a classroom, they'll just keep asking stupid questions all day long and ruin the learning experience for every one else.

So in todays world we are led to believe that the experts don't know what they are doing, the government don't know what they are doing, the journalists don't know what they are doing.

Is that it? So how is it all the people who know everything haven't become experts, or don't put themselves forward for government or don't analyse what is happening appropriately or won't advocate for a meaningful improvement but can tell us all what is wrong from anonymous accounts online.

It's like the Frankie Boyle joke about a TV show on how to be successful at business aimed at people who are sitting at home in the middle of the day.