KBC exiting Ireland

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059268#Comment_118059268

I've both KBC and BOI apps currently. Tbh not seeing much of a different experience overall...

Dempo1

There's a lot of talk about current accounts, Credit card accounts, over drafts , personal loans with with KBC and the BOI deal.

My understanding is the following any thoughts , corrections welcome.

Only perfoming Mortgages being purchased /Taken over by BOI, performing loans also (but not clear what type of loans) . Non performing loans, mortgages sale already commenced to vulture funds.

Current Accounts:

Historically when , Dankse, NIB, previous An Post Bank closed, Current accounts did not transfer and won't in any arrangement with BOI or anyone other Bank for that matter. Customers will have to set up new current accounts with whomever they choose.

Overdraft:

Overdrafts with KBC will , I presume have to be paid/Cleared on demand (on closure or nearing closure) of KBC current accounts. I presume a customer opening new current account could negotiate an overdraft with new bank as part of moving account but that's a separate issue. I'm not sure those with overdrafts realise what's coming. 🤔

Credit Cards:

Not at all sure what will happen with credit cards, KBC will likely close them also but they certainly won't be transferring to a new bank 🤔

Personal Loans:

Personal Loans may have to continue to be serviced by KBC or an appointed intermediary or perhaps be sold on to a 3rd party , I presume terms and conditions carry forward, payable on demand not an option for KBC re performing personal loans.🤔

Again all the above IMO

Yggr of Asgard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069705#Comment_118069705

Well, I suggest you visit Important Information - Consumer Finance - KBC which gives you the correct information for Loans, Overdrafts and Credit Cards.

Both Loans and Credit Cards are part of the deal to be sold to BOI.

And as to current account, indeed you will need to switch yourself as per Important Information - Current Accounts - KBC

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069727#Comment_118069727

Thank you, I wasn't fully sure about personal loans or credit cards aspect but it would make sense they transfer.

Thankfully I don't have anything other than a current account with no O/D to worry about, have already set up new account elsewhere but will maintain KBC account for as long as possible, direct debits etc.

cmssjone

Apologies if this has already been answered but I’m wondering where I stand with regards to my mortgage. It is fixed with several years left and my understanding is that it will just move to BOI with the current T & Cs intact. What are my rights if I don’t want this to happen? Suppose I want to remortgage as I don’t want my mortgage to be with BOI, can this be facilitated? (Without paying a break fee)

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073249#Comment_118073249

Your mortgage will remain the same including your fixed term. There will be break fees. The cost is the same you signed up happy with those terms with KBC what specifically is the problem with the move ? You can feel free to look at the market when the fixed terms up.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061300#Comment_118061300

The KBC one actually works though. And backend processes happen much more quickly

BOIs app based 2fa authentication may decide not to prompt you or let you find a missing prompt multiple times in a row whereas KBCs SMS version always works.

Opening a new product via the KBC app worked and was done immediately if suitable for that product, there are delays and multiple stages with BOI.

BOI had a separate website (not an app) that gave decent credit card functionality but it's now gone. Takes up to a week to show credit card transactions on the app!

If you don't want to go / go back to BOI, the other offerings are anywhere between poor and exceptionally poor too; AIB probably the best.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073281#Comment_118073281

I'm both a bank of Ireland customer and a KBC customer I know full well what the experience is like with both. I've had similar same experience with any products. I never applied to BOI because their rates were crap not due to service. I had an abysmal mortgage time with KBC with finger pointing throughout the mortgage approval team for months. Swings and roundabouts. But I disagree on the customer experience charge being leveled at BOI.

Anyhow none of that has any impact on this person's fixed term. They can break fee or wait . There's no cost to them .

cmssjone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073256#Comment_118073256

I signed up to those T&Cs with KBC not BOI. I do not want to have my mortgage with BOI. I should not be penalised and have to pay a breakage fee for being moved to a bank that I don't want to do business with.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073535#Comment_118073535

Hahaha. If only things worked that way.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073535#Comment_118073535

You evidently haven't actually read the terms and conditions maybe suggest you do actually do that. Your mortgage is a liability to be traded at will, the owners can be varied.. whatever friendly relationship you think you had with KBC only exists in your mind .

cmssjone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073561#Comment_118073561

I have no allegiance to KBC but have had poor dealings in the past with BOI. You’re right, I haven’t read the T&Cs but generally when companies change their terms, customers are given the opportunity to exit the agreement eg virgin price increases etc. it’s a pretty big change when a product is taken over by another company, so it would make sense that this would/should be given as an option. Where does it say in any banking conditions that they can sell performing loans, I understood it was just for non-performing loans?

listermint

Look up collateralised debt obligation.

Your mortgage is just a pool of liability. Performing or not it's a liability and has a market value.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073535#Comment_118073535

You signed a contract with terms that included the right of the lender to transfer the debt to third parties. If that was not what you wanted, then you should not have signed the contract.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073655#Comment_118073655

You don't get to make it up as you go along. The law assumes you are an adult capable of acting in your own interests. You signed a contact that included an option for the lender to transfer the loan to third parties at their discretion. No terms have been broken or changed, the lender is acting on the contact that you agreed to and signed up to. In future read the contracts you are signing up to in detail and if you don't understand get someone to explain it to you.

cmssjone

Not appreciating the aggro here tbh. I asked a question, outlining what I thought was reasonable with other contracts I have signed, and have received some pretty passive aggressive responses. I, like many people, didn't read the terms and conditions for the mortgage as I didn't envisage this situation of KBC leaving Ireland happening. I'm not trying to make it up as I go along. I was just trying to find clarity. I doubt if I had asked someone to explain it to me they would have explicitly stated that the bank could sell my mortgage on without my knowledge. I'll ask a financial advisor and see if he mentions it

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074342#Comment_118074342

What's a financial advisor going to confirm to you that hasn't already been said.

Im pretty surprised someone hasn't read the terms of their mortgage. Genuinely... You have a copy of it btw you could read it today.

BronsonTB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074342#Comment_118074342

If you wait, your mortgage will be swtiched to BOI as that is what KBC want & they are leaving. But if you change before they leave, you will have the choice of who you move to. The actually timing of exactly when they leave is currently unknown. All you can do is assess & see what works best for your particular situation. KBC have a decent rates esp with the current account so it could be worth waiting to see if other banks introduce moving offers to get some of this business before you move. You'll get all kinds of responses here so don't be taking anything too personal.

cmssjone

I was referencing the fact that I doubt it would have been something that a financial advisor would explicitly explain whilst advising you on mortgages. I don't doubt it's in the contract so my query has been answered. I signed it and have no issues meeting my obligations. I just didn't want it to come under BOI as I find them painful to deal with

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074415#Comment_118074415

My plan is to check the market next year when my fixed terms up. Won't have to deal with BOI mortgage team till then . So not concerned. Market has good rates out there right now

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073655#Comment_118073655

Your Virgin analogy is flawed. This situation is more like if Virgin decided to get out of the consumer TV business, and sold off that department to Sky. In that case, the customer would not be entitled to exit the agreement (without some other material change to the T&Cs)

Sam W

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073655#Comment_118073655

No aggression intended, but you can see why so many people are saying the same to you. Mortgage is a big commitment, so you can't justify not reading T&C properly and just make random accusations like 'where does it say in any banking conditions blah blah'. It is in *every single bank's* T&C's for any kind of loans.

BOI/KBC may give you the option of breaking your T&C without a penalty, but it's up to their goodwill. As long as you are paying the same rate (if you are on fixed rate mortgage), there is nothing you can do.

(And btw I agree BOI is a pain to deal with. Dealing with them always makes me feel we are still living in the 20th century.)

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074415#Comment_118074415

Anyone doing the explaining would be unlikely to mention it as they would not expect anyone to care about they point. Mortgages are sold all the time.

BOI are horrible to deal with. Always have been.

Vote with your feet and move. Plenty of better options out there for mortgages, and also for current accounts.

cmssjone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076318#Comment_118076318

I was trying to do that. Unfortunately I’m going to have to deal with them for the next few years. I’ve no issue regarding my mortgage rate/payments, it’s just that I’ll now have to deal with this shower…You can guarantee there will be plenty of issues their end

Shelga

I have approval in principle with KBC and have gone sale agreed on a place in the last couple of weeks. Am I mad to draw down the mortgage with them? Are new mortgages the type of thing that will be cut off overnight with no warning, or will there be some notice?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091932#Comment_118091932

No they're business as usual currently. Proceed on as usual tbh. Once your mortgage is in and your paying you may never ever have to contact them again unless your looking to switch or coming to end of fixed terms. So frankly I wouldn't be super worried about how long a phone call is. It's a rare thing to have to contact the bank in relation to an active mortgage. I havent spoke to KBC in years no idea how that would change with BOI ....

Shelga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091937#Comment_118091937

Great, thank you! Tbh I don’t care so much about breakage fees or whatever down the line- I mean I care, but not as much as just getting the mortgage for the cheapest rate right now. Have just gotten fresh AIP this week too so I think they have to honour that.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091950#Comment_118091950

Agreed. Your pressing concern is getting a good deal right now and finds and moving on.

Sarn

For me, the annoying thing is having our mortgage moved to a bank that has/had poor mortgage rates. While no one can predict the future, the odds were good that KBC would remain reasonably competitive, reducing the need to switch and pay all of the associated costs again.

AmberKat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091950#Comment_118091950

Just FYI, Approval in Principle is just that. They have zero obligation to provide actual approval much less give you the mortgage money just because you have it. There is no commitment for them to honour.

Q&A

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091932#Comment_118091932

Nothing to stop you getting AIP from another lender. The purchase process will take some time. When I bought I used AIP from one bank but eventually went with another lender.

Mimikyu

Has anyone started the process or moved banks yet?

I don’t know if I’m getting ahead of myself but was thinking it might be better to get the ball rolling now rather than wait and have to try open new accounts when there could be Ulster Bank and KBC customers looking to sign up with a new bank.

I was going to use my N26 account but they don’t offer a joint account and need a savings account so was considering AIB. Fees shouldn’t be too bad as it’ll be mostly used for our wages coming in and direct debits going out. Day to day spending is done with Revolut.

shanec1928

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113851#Comment_118113851

why would you move now? this doesnt appear that it will be a quick process. no point paying fees when you currently dont have to pay them. thats my thinking on it, ill hold out as long as possible.

JTMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135318#Comment_118135318

The only advantage of switching now is to get ahead of the crowd. There is going to be hoards of switching early next year by UB and KBC customers. The sheer volume of switching next year and the transfer of payment data might lead to delays and maybe issues.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141027#Comment_118141027

It is also worth point out the the reason that KBC and UB are exiting the market is because it has not proved to be profitable for them. Some people may discover that the other banks are not welcoming and they may only be offered the minimum services required under the EU directive. So my advice is better sooner than later, so that all the hiccups can be sorted out early.

Sarn

In our case, the only direct debit/standing order that comes out of our KBC account is the mortgage. I never bothered closing or switching everything across from my fee free PTSB account. However, I’ll keep the KBC current account until they close it, as the discount on our mortgage depends on it.

Mimikyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135318#Comment_118135318

I was originally thinking the same but was thinking there could be delays getting an appointment with another bank come the new year when everyone is trying to move.

I was reading on another forum someone had to wait a few weeks to get an appointment with AIB to get set up.

JTMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118158713#Comment_118158713

No appointments to deal with if you go with a bank that offers a digital online sign up such as N26, Revolut, Bunq and BoI.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159604#Comment_118159604

N26 now have a waiting list to sign up.

Wheety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159604#Comment_118159604

You can sign up for AIB through their app.

Only need an appointment for a joint account.

Although I don't know if 2 people set up separate accounts through the app, could they then apply for a joint account remotely.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118158713#Comment_118158713

Does anyone have a list of banks with do and don't require appointments to set up a joint current account? I can't be dealing with banks that look for a visit to try and sell you insurance

BronsonTB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166044#Comment_118166044

Nope - AIB Joint accounts need to be signed in person in a bank branch with ID etc even if your are an existing acc holder through the app. (Went through this with AIB recently)

Wheety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169748#Comment_118169748

Thanks. We need to move our joint account eventually. I did see that you can only open a personal account through the app but thought that was just for first time customers and you might have more options once set up.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169671#Comment_118169671

Would you be happy for them to allow other people to open an account in your name, deposit illegal money in it, run up an overdraft in your name…. Banks are already loosing money on free banking, the last thing they want to is waste time on seeing you face 2 face, but they have no choice - it’s a requirement with serious consequences if they screw up.

My advice is to get it done ASAP. The banks are not obligated to do business with you and I would not be surprised if some people struggle to find banks willing to take them on towards the end.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170085#Comment_118170085

I'll be moving a current account and mortgage from KBC. I suspect the banks will be interested. We didn't have to meet KBC to get either of those set up, so I'm failing to see the risk in not meeting face to face. Plenty of financial relationships are established on a non face to face basis, and the financial system isn't awash with money deposited in accounts opened in other people's names

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170141#Comment_118170141

There is no risk for you, but there is for the financial institution and even for individual bank staff members in certain circumstances. And as someone who was involved in banking for over 30 years, I can say that there was substantial abuse of joint accounts in the past.

It is also worth remembering that banks are subject to capital ratios when it comes to lending and they can't exceed those ratios. Likewise underwriters have limits to the amount of risk they are willing to take. So it is better to get this done sooner rather than later to avoid being under pressure at the end .

swampgas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169671#Comment_118169671

Bank of Ireland let you set up a joint account remotely - each person does their own part separately, so you don't even need to be in the same location to do it. (I did this recently, set up a joint BofI account with my brother and it was fairly straightforward.)

Slutmonkey57b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170141#Comment_118170141

It definitely is awash with money deposited in other people's names.

Ush1

Anybody ballsy enough to use Revolut as their current account?