KBC exiting Ireland

storker

Surely what we need is a true single market in banking - where the same rules apply across all member states.

growleaves

Given the ridiculous boom-bust dynamics of both the global and local economy, banks would be raking in defaulted assets almost like clockwork approx every ten years, e.g. 2008, 2020-1, 2029, 2038 etc., etc. without political interference if they could.

How can anyone support this lock-down of the economy and also complain - with a straight face - that banks haven't been allowed to collect on defaulted loans?

KBC take their ball and go home. So sad.

sebdavis

growleaves wrote: »

Given the ridiculous boom-bust dynamics of both the global and local economy, banks would be raking in defaulted assets almost like clockwork approx every ten years, e.g. 2008, 2020-1, 2029, 2038 etc., etc. without political interference if they could.

How can anyone support this lock-down of the economy and also complain - with a straight face - that banks haven't been allowed to collect on defaulted loans?

KBC take their ball and go home. So sad.

People who took out 500k 100% mortgages in the knowledge they would never have the ability to pay it off so they can "get on the property ladder" are the problem. The same people 10 years on are complaining now because they can't get 100% mortgages anymore

If Banks could take houses off these people they might actually learn a lesson instead of taking out the mortgage in the knowledge they will never have to pay it off and probably have a free years of rent free accomodation

People are sick of paying over the odds for the rest......

Eire Go Brach

Its a vicious circle. People complain about the Central Bank restrictions. Yet its the Banks fault that they where brought in the first place.

I have no interest in giving any of the Irish banks my business, for what they done to our country. We are in the EU we should be allowed bank in any country.
I say let the Irish banks burn.

The J Stands for Jay

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

Its a vicious circle. People complain about the Central Bank restrictions. Yet its the Banks fault that they where brought in the first place.

I have no interest in giving any of the Irish banks my business, for what they done to our country. We are in the EU we should be allowed bank in any country.
I say let the Irish banks burn.

But the Scottish, English, Danish and Dutch banks have left us. The Spanish better stick around for a while.

y0ssar1an22

i just got an account set up with them a few days ago cos of BOI's fees. they will still be in ireland, but would you be hampered at all trying to get a loan from AIB/BOI while you bank with KBC?

Wanderer78

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

Its a vicious circle. People complain about the Central Bank restrictions. Yet its the Banks fault that they where brought in the first place.

I have no interest in giving any of the Irish banks my business, for what they done to our country. We are in the EU we should be allowed bank in any country.
I say let the Irish banks burn.

...it would hardly lead to a catastrophic financial sector collapse, would it?

thunderdog

When Ulster Bank announced they were leaving the ROI market l, I was surprised that BOI weren’t mentioned in acquiring any of their portfolios. Makes sense now that they had a KBC deal going on in the background

retalivity

Bob24 wrote: »

Some of it probably relates to BOI trying to buy out a growing competitor rather than upping their game.

But I hope this is not the main reason (if it was, it should be a clear investigation matter for financial and consumer protection regulators, especially in the context of Ulster Bank already pulling the plug).

This is the crux of it, BOI IT and internals are a basket case, worse than the other 2 remaining banks (I've worked for all 3). It stinks of "Ah fcuk trying to improve, lets just buy these new upstarts out". Removes a competitor, brings in more performing book value, they don't really need to fix any of the existing problems

sebdavis

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i just got an account set up with them a few days ago cos of BOI's fees. they will still be in ireland, but would you be hampered at all trying to get a loan from AIB/BOI while you bank with KBC?

No

Slutmonkey57b

retalivity wrote: »

This is the crux of it, BOI IT and internals are a basket case, worse than the other 2 remaining banks (I've worked for all 3). It stinks of "Ah fcuk trying to improve, lets just buy these new upstarts out". Removes a competitor, brings in more performing book value, they don't really need to fix any of the existing problems

But they've got an app now! And they've retired the old website with all its functionality and replaced it with the new shiny app!

Look an app!

10000maniacs

McGaggs wrote: »

To make money, you need to have lots of customers. There's a limited amount of new customers, since essentially every adult has a bank account. That means that to get customers, you need to take them from existing banks. The majority of Irish people do not change banks. Someone came into their class from the bank and gave them a moneybox and a savings account. The only change they ever make is to take the mammy's name off the account and convert it to a current account. Having done that for generations with their squirrels or hippos or whatever on their moneyboxes, the big 3 have the market sown up. Any new entrants need to spend a fortune to get market share. It usually doesn't work out.

Doesn't help that interest rates have been less than 1% for nearly 10 years.

jmayo

McGaggs wrote: »

To make money, you need to have lots of customers. There's a limited amount of new customers, since essentially every adult has a bank account. That means that to get customers, you need to take them from existing banks. The majority of Irish people do not change banks. Someone came into their class from the bank and gave them a moneybox and a savings account. The only change they ever make is to take the mammy's name off the account and convert it to a current account. Having done that for generations with their squirrels or hippos or whatever on their moneyboxes, the big 3 have the market sown up. Any new entrants need to spend a fortune to get market share. It usually doesn't work out.

Simplistic and totally ignoring the elephant in the room.
Banks came into this country and offered attractive mortgages, often to borrowers that others would not readily touch.
It was a market available.

They probably shouldn't have done some of the business they did what with 100% loans and all, but their growing market share meant the old indeginous banks had to start offering better deals to their long suffering customers.

But then they all over egged the market and our own banks were the worst.

The ar** fell out of things and unlike every normal functioning country in the world our government refused to allow chancers and people often unwilling to repay their debts to keep the assets.
Hence foreign banks, who couldn't run to the Irish taxpayer to demand a bailout, had to ask their parent company (often the parents company's country of origin taxpayers) to bail them out.

So why would foreign banks stick around when this is the climate in which they have to do business.

PS Irish banks have always been a pile of wan**rs.

Way back even as real Celtic Tiger was beginning, I watched how one of our main banks made people running small manufacturing businesses squirm and grovel.

When they called to small companies they had them jumping through hoops and these same banks a decade or so later were pi**ing money away
with developers in half baked supposed business ventures, which were often building properties that nobody wanted in the ar**hole of nowhere.

Just remember how many times AIB has screwed the taxpayers and it's own customers, often with connivance of the regulators.

For anyone that doesn't know of him, look up Eugene McErlean.

https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/the-good-banker-who-blew-the-whistle-and-then-lost-his-job-26690168.html

growleaves wrote: »

Given the ridiculous boom-bust dynamics of both the global and local economy, banks would be raking in defaulted assets almost like clockwork approx every ten years, e.g. 2008, 2020-1, 2029, 2038 etc., etc. without political interference if they could.

How can anyone support this lock-down of the economy and also complain - with a straight face - that banks haven't been allowed to collect on defaulted loans?

KBC take their ball and go home. So sad.

So the fact chancers who didn't pay their mortgage between 2008/2009 and 2020 and hadn't their properties repossessed is all because of Covid hitting in spring 2020. :rolleyes:

Interesting take on the world's biggest defaulting numbers and lack of repossessions in Ireland.

BTW covid lockdown for the greater good of society.
Not repossessing those in default for many years just for the good of the individuals involved.

Failure to notice the difference ? hmmm

Jim2007

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

I have no interest in giving any of the Irish banks my business, for what they done to our country. We are in the EU we should be allowed bank in any country.
I say let the Irish banks burn.

There is nothing stopping you doing business with any EU bank as it stands. Except that they don't want to do business with you and they can't be forced to. This is an industry wide crises and banks everywhere are facing the same issues.

At this point in time it's anyones guess how this will pan out. For certain, you will have to pay more and that assumes you can even find a bank that will be willing to take you on as a customer beyond a general legal requirement to provide basic banking services.

AndrewJRenko

Student_111 wrote: »

Who says that? Of course it also happens in the private sector, but its not tax payers money being blown so it happens less often.

Also, gov still have major influence in Irish banks.

Are you sure it happens less often? Or is it that you hear about it less often, because they don't wash their dirty linen in public?

AndrewJRenko

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

I don't care about cost overruns along as my tax money ism't paying for it. Bank staff including the CEO are accountable to shareholders at the AGM.

BOI is now virtually out of state hands.

Okay then, it's just your bank fees and your mortgage rates that are paying for it?

AndrewJRenko

Teothican wrote: »

i am a KBC customer and was wondering if my bank account will be moved to BOI with a Current account card and pin sent out ?

No one knows yet. They could continue to operate KBC as a separate brand, as AIB did with EBS.

growleaves

jmayo wrote: »

So the fact chancers who didn't pay their mortgage between 2008/2009 and 2020 and hadn't their properties repossessed is all because of Covid hitting in spring 2020. :rolleyes:

Interesting take on the world's biggest defaulting numbers and lack of repossessions in Ireland.

BTW covid lockdown for the greater good of society.
Not repossessing those in default for many years just for the good of the individuals involved.

Failure to notice the difference ? hmmm

I didn't mean edge cases like people who took out 100% mortgages and make no effort to pay ever. I'm not against repossession in all instances. Yes it is unfair on banks in many of these cases, I admit that.

My point is this. Mortgages are predicated on (theoretical) economic stability. When that stability turns out to be illusory, political interference bridges the gap between lack of economic stability and the personal destruction of ordinary people.

Without this political protection there could be scenarios where huge numbers of borrowers are going to the wall. As I said the banks would be fine with that and given the boom-bust dynamic they would happy to repossess as much as possible and then repeat the process over and again every 10 years or so. They aren't being allowed to play this shell game because the political fallout would find its way back to TDs.

People who say we have a national duty to crash our economy should not be whining about the inability of banks to collect on defaulted assets in general. The protection of borrowers is mostly a good thing though it does go too far covering some people who were never going to pay.

beggars_bush

So is someone hoping that credit unions fill this gap or what?

Taylor365

Right.

What is the best setup to not be dependent on any Irish bank? (ptsb/aib/boi/ebs)

PommieBast

thunderdog wrote: »

When Ulster Bank announced they were leaving the ROI market l, I was surprised that BOI weren’t mentioned in acquiring any of their portfolios. Makes sense now that they had a KBC deal going on in the background

Did Ulster have a relatively high proportion (even by Irish standards) of non-performing loans on its books? Might explain why...

Darc19

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

Its a vicious circle. People complain about the Central Bank restrictions. Yet its the Banks fault that they where brought in the first place.

I have no interest in giving any of the Irish banks my business, for what they done to our country. We are in the EU we should be allowed bank in any country.
I say let the Irish banks burn.

You do know that bank of Ireland have paid back all of what they got in the banking bailout.

There were 4 main culprits in the crisis - Bank of Scotland, Ulster bank, irish nationwide & Anglo Irish bank.

Bank of Scotland introduced uneconomic tracker margins (I'm not complaining, i have one)
Ulster Bank introduced to 100% and 110% mortgage

and Anglo and Irish Nationwide lent to any property investor and developer who asked for money thinking the money tree would never stop.

AIB, BOI, EBS, First active, PTSB had no choice but to follow as otherwise customers would walk. Hence when the bubble burst everyone got caught.

Bank of Ireland took the least risks and have recovered and repaid better that everyone else followed by AIB with PTSB lagging in 3rd.

Between Bank of Scotland and Ulster Bank, the UK taxpayer paid over 16 billion to bail their Irish operations out - and will see very little of that ever coming back.

Bank of Ireland has paid the Irish taxpayer back in full with interest and penalties and AIB will get there someday in the next few years and PTSB might be a little longer

So maybe relook at where you direct your anger (without the SF / PBP / lefty all banks are bastards train of thought)

Frozen Veg

Transfer to local credit union. Owned by the members.

Darc19

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Transfer to local credit union. Owned by the members.

A good few of the credit unions needed rescuing too.

Oversight is particularly strong on all banking entities so it's really down to what suits you.

A combination of CU and an online bank might be a good option for some.

I'm Ulster with personal account and AIB with business. Will probably move to AIB just because it's handy with revolut as a secondary account

howiya

howiya wrote: »

The state already owns most of AIB and PTSB, the post office and 14% of BOI but yeah it should definitely set up a bank...

Made me think of this...

Darc19

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i just got an account set up with them a few days ago cos of BOI's fees. they will still be in ireland, but would you be hampered at all trying to get a loan from AIB/BOI while you bank with KBC?

This is another issue. The politicians want bank branches in every village. The villagers then expect it.

Banks charge a fee. The more barely used branches, the more the fees.

No-one wants to pay.


Then they all cry foul when they close up.

GarIT

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Transfer to local credit union. Owned by the members.

Way too expensive IMO and there is a risk of negative interest rates without being warned. A bank would have to tell you they are introducing negative interest rates.

Allinall

Taylor365 wrote: »

Right.

What is the best setup to not be dependent on any Irish bank? (ptsb/aib/boi/ebs)

https://www.mattressmick.ie/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6-SDBhCMARIsAGbI7UhTzGdxhfgmEFgWGnHD6uTKybsZQtsEAJP9sm6sc-w5XVR1JECu8GQaAjweEALw_wcB

Yyhhuuu

McGaggs wrote: »

Here's a list of some of the banks I've had accounts with:

Halifax Ireland
Nationwide UK Ireland
Rabobank
Ango Irish Bank
KBC
Ulster Bank

Can anyone see a pattern?

Don't forget Leeds Building Society & Bank of Scotland (Ireland) &Danske ( still in N.I.)

The J Stands for Jay

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Don't forget Leeds Building Society & Bank of Scotland (Ireland) &Danske ( still in N.I.)

I never liked Leeds because of their daft Arthur Daly adverts, bank of Scotland were Halifax for retail banking IIRC and I just never saw a reason to have an account with Danske.

The J Stands for Jay

Taylor365 wrote: »

Right.

What is the best setup to not be dependent on any Irish bank? (ptsb/aib/boi/ebs)

N26, bunq or monese.

GarIT

Taylor365 wrote: »

Right.

What is the best setup to not be dependent on any Irish bank? (ptsb/aib/boi/ebs)

https://localbitcoins.com/instant-bitcoins/?action=buy&amount=&currency=EUR&country_code=IE&online_provider=ALL_ONLINE&find-offers=Search

TheDriver

GarIT wrote: »

Way too expensive IMO and there is a risk of negative interest rates without being warned. A bank would have to tell you they are introducing negative interest rates.

Thought their fee is 4 a month which isn't bad as they have long opening hours and can still handle cash and cheques.

AndrewJRenko

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Don't forget Leeds Building Society & Bank of Scotland (Ireland) &Danske ( still in N.I.)

And Pfizer Bank operated for a while, giving good deposit rates - early 90s.

Jim2007

Taylor365 wrote: »

Right.

What is the best setup to not be dependent on any Irish bank? (ptsb/aib/boi/ebs)

What do you mean by dependent? At this point in time no matter which one you choose there is an equal chance of fees and terms being changed going forward because none of them are doing well.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And Pfizer Bank operated for a while, giving good deposit rates - early 90s.

And now they help you make deposits, and vaccines too

Yyhhuuu

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And Pfizer Bank operated for a while, giving good deposit rates - early 90s.

There were other niche banks like Guinness & Mahon and others whose names elude me. NIB ( Owned byNational Australia Bank),who took over Northern Bank (?Midland Bank) later I think taken over by Danske, Woodchester Credit Lyonnais (whichheld deposits as well as providing Finance Loans). Lombard and Ulster( NatWest Group)

Of all the deposit takers I dealt with Natonwide UK Ireland were the most professional and courteous.

I moved to KBC from BOI. Can't believe I'm going full circle. Can't shake off BOI.

Is N26 the best alternative? I have a current account with EBS and rarely use it as their online banking is absolutely appalling...

fritzelly

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Is N26 the best alternative? I have a current account with EBS and rarely use it as their online banking is absolutely appalling...

For online banking they are up there at the top - its great you have so much control over your debit card - can enable/disable foreign/online transactions, atm, contactless, mag stripe etc
Been with them years and never had a problem and it's all free! (well one day their systems were down for a few hours but compared to Irish banks thats amazing uptime)

10000maniacs

Off the top of my head:
Anglo Irish Bank
Danske Bank
Depfa Bank
Halifax Ireland
First Active
Irish Nationwide
Leeds Building Society Ireland
Nationwide UK (Ireland)
Rabobank Ireland

There were another 5 or 6 smaller banks that gave big interest rates but closed quietly around the crash too.
There was one that offered 10% when all the others were offering 7% around 1999. Bradford & Bingley I think.

Sam W

I was an N26 Metal customer for 3 years before they truly pissed me off and closed my account there.

To be fair they are a good bank to deal with - when there is no issue.

If you need to request for a chargeback, block a transaction, report unusual behaviour, their service standards are beyond appalling. As a Metal customer I already got the VIP line, but it was still a joke. If you need to call them, they would spend five minutes verifying that you are you, and then ask you to wait for another five minutes before they can call you back. I can’t understand the logic in it at all.

The issue that ultimately lead to my closing account should have been a straightforward money transfer issue. I sent over a bank transfer to another AIB account, but AIB had to reject the transfer as the recipient’s legal name has just changed. So AIB tried to send the money back to my N26 account, but N26 just kept rejecting the payment, citing unknown security issue bulls***.

It took me a bit over 3 months, hundreds of calls with them and countless papers to sign, before they finally put the money back on my account. I closed my account as soon as I got my money back.

JTMan

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They could continue to operate KBC as a separate brand, as AIB did with EBS.

I would doubt that BoI will operate under the KBC brand when KBC continues to operate as a bank elsewhere. Also keeping 2 sets of systems would be a total expensive mess.

Separately, anyone else think EBS might be next? It might make a lot of sense for AIB to merge the EBS and AIB brands and shut the EBS legacy branch network. Difficult to see how the legacy EBS branches that seem to mainly deal with cash transactions can be profitable.

JTMan

JTMan wrote: »

Also keeping 2 sets of systems would be a total expensive mess.

Merging systems can be significantly more expensive sometimes.

JTMan

Student_111 wrote: »

Merging systems can be significantly more expensive sometimes.

Yeah, merging systems is expensive. Keeping 2 sets of systems is also expensive and a mess.

One much lower cost option (if BoI want the KBC deposits, which I don't see why they would) is to send a largely-pre-populated current account switcher form to KBC customers. Switch by X date (and deal with a new IBAN, new internet login, new card etc) or move your deposits elsewhere.

seligehgit

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Poo. I've always liked their app. I left ptsb to join kbc thinking they are more tech progressive.

Dempo1 wrote: »

B*****X

Fantastic bank and excellent App. Can't belive this, I'd hoped they at least continued with digital retail banking given they don't have a branch network.

Will have to shop around but don't want to go near PTSB, BOI or AIB.

Need an account that has a good app for managing account.

Sad, Sad news, I've been with them from the start.

What's peoples issue with Permanent TSB?

I'd certainly consider moving N26,considered same previously.

The J Stands for Jay

Jim2007 wrote: »

What do you mean by dependent? At this point in time no matter which one you choose there is an equal chance of fees and terms being changed going forward because none of them are doing well.

They want to use a bank that isn't Irish.

The J Stands for Jay

Student_111 wrote: »

Merging systems can be significantly more expensive sometimes.

They could just out customers through the regular switcher process, and transport KBC customers back in time to 1999.

Rewired

JTMan wrote: »

Also keeping 2 sets of systems would be a total expensive mess.

May not have to. The link posted a few pages back says BOI's new platform will be based on T24, which is what KBC uses.

sebdavis wrote: »

https://www.fintechfutures.com/2019/03/fears-over-bank-of-ireland-e2bn-tech-revamp-cost/

The J Stands for Jay

seligehgit wrote: »

What's peoples issue with Permanent TSB?

I'd certainly consider moving N26,considered same previously.

App not great, problems arise every so often and their solution is always to have you call in to a branch.

lawred2

Opened up an N26 business account yesterday in about 10 minutes.

Transferred what was in my revolut business account over. SEPA transfer arrived instantly.

Given that experience, I'll probably look to open up a personal current account with N26. Sod the "traditional" banks.

Bob24

McGaggs wrote: »

They could just out customers through the regular switcher process, and transport KBC customers back in time to 1999.

And IMO that would actually the most likely scenario. KBC accounts getting closed no matter what and people just being told that if they want to they can switch to a BOI account before the KBC one is gone.

Current accounts don’t make money for the bank. Loans and other services (insurance, etc) do. And I believe they have said that it is the mortgages portfolio BoI is specifically interested in. There is no point in them maintaining a parallel infrastructure for current account customers.