Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Workplace recording

Options
13»

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    Just to go back to the OP for a sec:

    - is it illegal?

    Certainly seems like a grey area.

    - will your company look dimly on your colleague's actions when looking into this dispute?

    100%


  • Options
    #63
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Just to go back to the OP for a sec:

    - is it illegal?

    Certainly seems like a grey area.

    - will your company look dimly on your colleague's actions when looking into this dispute?

    100%

    That really depends on the complaint made by the op’s colleague about the employer and the op, and in what forum that dispute is heard. The op has not elaborated, the op’s colleague may not care in what light their employer views it.

    Incidentally, there was a high profile case where a Judge ruled that a workplace video recording by an employee did not encroach on individual rights, and was reasonable given the circumstances, we do not know what the circumstances are in the op’s case and whether any laws, either criminal or employment, are alleged to have been broken by the employer/op.


  • Options
    #64
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Just to go back to the OP for a sec:

    - is it illegal?

    Certainly seems like a grey area.

    - will your company look dimly on your colleague's actions when looking into this dispute?

    100%

    I don’t know if that’s true. I don’t have a legal or HR background, do you? I think it does sound plausible if the recorder said he was doing so to take minutes, or because he felt the OP was reneging on decisions in other calls. I don’t know. I do think it’s hasty to say that the company will 100% look badly on the complaint though.


  • Options
    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I would have thought the phrase “work from home” would be self explanatory, and indicate that where you work at home becomes your workspace while working remotely.

    Should your family be on work zoom calls? I would suggest no, they should not. It is completely unprofessional as you are technically at work, if they are visible, that is your fault, not the other participant in the conversation.

    No, you can't just decide that. Your deciding that because you perform a work task then your home has now become a designated workplace.

    What if I'm in the shopping center and answer a work call? It's that now also my workplace? The park? What about Gardai? The entire country is their workplace.

    Is my child and wife trespassing? Do they require my employer's permission to go to the fridge? What if my child snacks me with a toy? Can I claim against my employer? No. No I can't.

    The family home is protected by the constitution. Save in accordance with law, so unless you can point to a specific legislation covering that, I don't agree with your view.

    Looking at another angle, remember the smoking ban in the workplace came in and the home being the workplace of plumbers, etc became an issue? It was found that your right to use of your home superceded the law in that regard. Prisoners can smoke in jail, staff cannot.

    As for the zoom call. Again, even if you consider the kitchen as your workplace, it remains the child's home. The child is not in work and it remains their private home. Their right to privacy within the home is constitutionality protected without specific legal permission to invade it. Where's that permission written?

    This is covered in data protection already, the recording of a PRIVATE premises without permission.

    At the very least, the data that has been recorded is subject to data retention and access rules regardless of your stance on being allowed record.


  • Options
    #66
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The employer, not the Government?

    It's the employer in the first instance.

    It's up to the employer to protect employees from having their kids filmed on work video calls.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    hots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It's the employer in the first instance.

    It's up to the employer to protect employees from having their kids filmed on work video calls.

    Or for people to take some responsibility for themselves and keep the kids out of the room or turn their camera off.


  • Options
    #68
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    hots wrote: »
    Or for people to take some responsibility for themselves and keep the kids out of the room or turn their camera off.

    Some people don't have "the room" and are working in the kitchen. If you have small kids or children with disabilities, you can't guarantee that there are no interruptions. If you're told by your manager that camera on is mandatory, you don't have other options.

    The employer needs to manage this.


  • Options
    #69
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Some people don't have "the room" and are working in the kitchen. If you have small kids or children with disabilities, you can't guarantee that there are no interruptions. If you're told by your manager that camera on is mandatory, you don't have other options.

    The employer needs to manage this.

    The employer needs to “manage” you not having your kids visible to others?

    Dear God.


  • Options
    #70
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The employer needs to “manage” you not having your kids visible to others?

    Dear God.

    The employer needs to manage other employees to make sure that they don't record your kids when the inevitable happens.


  • Options
    #71
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    From what the op has said, the complaint is against the company, who was the complaint made to?

    They recorded the call, assuming it's video and children could be caught in the background, that's a big red flag. What if the child spilled something on their clothes and decided to take them off? My son does this regularly.

    The used work equipment to make the recording, whatever about one party consent I would expect that you need works permission to use their equipment.

    OP if the complaint is about you then I would email HR as say under GDPR you have a right to review information held about you and you want copies of recordings. If complaint is not about you you could still request them, they were made on a work device so it's the companies property they can get them even if it means getting the laptop and log in back.

    You could also get a short consultation with a solicitor and ask work to pay for any follow up.

    I'd say the person is looking to quit and claim constructive dismissal.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    hots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Some people don't have "the room" and are working in the kitchen. If you have small kids or children with disabilities, you can't guarantee that there are no interruptions. If you're told by your manager that camera on is mandatory, you don't have other options.

    The employer needs to manage this.

    It's always someone else's job.


  • Options
    #73
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    hots wrote: »
    It's always someone else's job.

    The employee can't manage their peers. The employer needs to set policy.


  • Options
    #74
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Seems dodgy to record in this instance to me.

    It's a private home, there is a reasonable expectation of privacy and working from home doesn't change this.

    The guy recording isn't doing it for personal reasons, he's doing it while at work.

    He has published it by sharing it with his employer.

    Aside from any work policies in place the above 3 points could mean there are legal implications here.


  • Options
    #75
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,975 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I had a flash of the blindingly obvious about this one.

    Employees don't actually know where their colleagues are working: all they know is that people are out of the office. I've worked with several companies since last March, and had to ask staff about their broadband. Because of this I know that some are working from home. But some from the office in a family or friend's business. Some from relatives homes. One lad is usually in a closed pub. This is magnified for one company which has hired two new teams - people have never met their colleagues IRL and are only vaguely aware of ones from the other team.

    So if employee A is unhappy with employee B and decides to record a meeting because of it - they don't even if employee B is working in a private home. All they know is that there are kids running around or lots of background noise, ie that the environment is unprofessional, and that's not right.

    Post-Covid, many companies make policies about WFH requiring workspaces with doors and all children and dependant adults in the house being actively in the care of another adult during working hours - because of cases like this one.


  • Options
    #76
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Jesus H. Christ. If ye don't want your kids being recorded in the background of a meeting in your house then do one of three things:

    1. Make sure they have absolutely no access to that space where your desk is, like locking the bloody door to the room.

    2. Resign, go on PUP, or find a job where there will be no Zoom calls.

    3. Use the function on Zoom that prevents your camera being used. Or use a screensaver, or just tape the camera over if you think Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg might be looking in.

    No need to quote Bunreacht na hEireann, or any guidelines, just use common sense.


  • Options
    #77
    hots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    runawaybishop wrote: »

    It's a private home, there is a reasonable expectation of privacy and working from home doesn't change this.

    There's no expectation of privacy if you turn a camera on yourself and broadcast it... this isn't a peeping tom with a camera through the window.


  • Options
    #78
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I had a flash of the blindingly obvious about this one........

    Post-Covid, many companies make policies about WFH requiring workspaces with doors and all children and dependant adults in the house being actively in the care of another adult during working hours - because of cases like this one.

    Not the case for two reason,
    Because of the pandemic companies sent employes home, nobody really had a choice we all have to just make the best of it but companies are in no position to make demands of employes. Its up to the employer to provide a safe working environment, sending them home is an emergency measure.

    They won't be making any heavy demands from employes after COVID, we dodged a bullet with SARA-1, Swine flu, bird flu and MAIRS we got hit by COVID, all in last 12 ish years, it could very easily happen again in the next five or ten. Companies that make heavy demands on employes will be setting themselves up for trouble if happens again. Sorry I can't work form home it doesn't meet xyz of your conditions so lay me off but you can't make me redundant or replacem so who will do my JOB!

    Keeping it on topic, OP's had a complaint made or been drawn into one and recordings using work equipment were made. Is this in accordance with the company's IT and Privacy policy most big companies will have one. Can you get copy of all recordings, can anybody else on the meeting get a copy too.

    If I was OP I'd play it softly simply ask HR to get them a copy of the recoding under GDPR then it's get legal advice without saying anything to the company. If starts to become expensive I'd invoice it to the company and see if they complain.

    Also keep a diary of all contact with the employee


  • Options
    #79
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    hots wrote: »
    There's no expectation of privacy if you turn a camera on yourself and broadcast it... this isn't a peeping tom with a camera through the window.

    Expectations of privacy don't change if you are told to turn your camera on by your employer.


  • Options
    #80
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Jesus H. Christ. If ye don't want your kids being recorded in the background of a meeting in your house then do one of three things:

    1. Make sure they have absolutely no access to that space where your desk is, like locking the bloody door to the room.

    2. Resign, go on PUP, or find a job where there will be no Zoom calls.

    3. Use the function on Zoom that prevents your camera being used. Or use a screensaver, or just tape the camera over if you think Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg might be looking in.

    No need to quote Bunreacht na hEireann, or any guidelines, just use common sense.

    1) Lots of people are working in a public part of the house, such as the kitchen table. You can't lock everyone out of the kitchen indefinitely for extended periods just because you're employer can't be arsed coming up with a reasonable policy.

    2) No. No one is required to lose their job because the employer can't be arsed coming up with a reasonable policy. That would be constructive dismissal.

    3) Some people are being instructed or coerced into putting their camera on.


  • Options
    #81
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    four pages and no one has presented evidence of where this is either a legal or gdpr issue clearly...

    privacy in ireland has never been defined by the courts and there is technically nothing illegal regarding recording a minor without either their or their parents consent


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    hots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Expectations of privacy don't change if you are told to turn your camera on by your employer.

    Be a grown up and say "no I can't, children in the background".


  • Options
    #83
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    ...Post-Covid, many companies make policies about WFH requiring workspaces with doors and all children and dependant adults in the house being actively in the care of another adult during working hours....

    They can make the policy but won't be able to police such a policy.


  • Options
    #84
    OttoPilot
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭OttoPilot


    GDPR covers personal data. Unless the OP is blurting out his DOB and address on these calls, he can't request anything "under GDPR" as there is no personal information being stored.


  • Options
    #85
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    OttoPilot wrote: »
    GDPR covers personal data. Unless the OP is blurting out his DOB and address on these calls, he can't request anything "under GDPR" as there is no personal information being stored.

    this is incorrect, images/videos/audio of a person could count as personal data.


Advertisement