Why do car owners drive in the middle lane?

DavyD_83

Left - exiting,
Right - overtaking/speeding
Middle - zombie mode

I'm pretty sure this is the general logic applied; also I'm fully licensed >10 years and was never taught actual rooms regarding 3 lanes and have honestly never looked it up.

Yes, I'm part of the problem.
I have driving, and only do it out of necessity cos I can't fit/move my full family, dog and shopping on my bike quickly and safely.

Solution that will actually make me learn:
1. Give me a really simple digestible version of the real application that I'll advisory without thinking about it. {realised I've seen that at above before and still don't care}
2. Force me to take a test that covers it - even a really simple on line multiple choice one. Most importantly I should not be allowed leave this year without selecting and/or being told the right answer.

I once did driver theory test for motorbike; leaving the test, after passing, I still didn't know which 3(?) Questions I had answered wrong, or what the correct answer to them was.
As I had passed, there was no need for me to check, and by time I had access to materials I honestly couldn't remember specifics of all questions in order to check if I had wanted to.

(Actually maybe they tell you which were wrong, but don't tell you the right answer...., Either way I never found out the right answers)

ELM327

I only do this on the busy parts of the M50, as otherwise I'd have to keep moving over and back to let people enter.

liamog

Patrick2010 wrote: »

So on the M50 everyone should drive on the left lane unless overtaking?. So no one should be on the outside lane then, have I got that right?.
Meanwhile back on the real world everyone who drives the M50 knows theres so much traffic on it all the lanes need to be used.

As you'd be passing traffic on your left, it's overtaking, in which case you are allowed to move out a lane. As is often the case, if there is enough room for someone to pass you on the right, there was enough for you to have pulled in instead.

ohnonotgmail

liamog wrote: »

As you'd be passing traffic on your left, it's overtaking, in which case you are allowed to move out a lane. As is often the case, if there is enough room for someone to pass you on the right, there was enough for you to have pulled in instead.

so what is the third lane for? people overtaking other people who are overtaking?

magicbastarder

ELM327 wrote: »

I only do this on the busy parts of the M50, as otherwise I'd have to keep moving over and back to let people enter.

the M50 is one of the easier roads to avoid doing that on, because there's no 'mandatory' merging due to the slip lanes? on the 3 lane section at least, which is the considerable majority of the M50.
there is mandatory merging *within* many of the slip lanes, but that doesn't apply to the main motorway lanes.

ELM327

Yes but people just merge in front of you or beep at you etc.
I know it's wrong and that's fine, prefer the easy life and be wrong rather than be correct and be road raged at or crashed into.

(FYI we have no mandatory merging in Ireland, traffic on the motorway or DC always has right of way)

ELM327

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so what is the third lane for? people overtaking other people who are overtaking?

Yes

realdanbreen

All very confusing, I think I'll just stick to driving in the middle lane!

markmoto

realdanbreen wrote: »

All very confusing, I think I'll just stick to driving in the middle lane!

Fine of 80 euro coming soon for middle lane hogging
in UK 100 pounds already. Check this out

https://www.thesun.ie/motors/4752902/idiot-driver-who-hogged-middle-lane-for-three-miles-told-police-hed-done-nothing-wrong-because-the-road-was-empty/

Piehead

markmoto wrote: »

There is no slow or fast lanes, all lanes equal and according to traffic rules you have to keep left lane unless overtaking. To avoid congestions and road collisions.

I’m pretty sure there are. It’s slow, medium and fast looking at it left to right respectively

markmoto

Piehead wrote: »

I’m pretty sure there are. It’s slow, medium and fast looking at it left to right respectively

According to RSA there no slow or fast rather lane 1,2 and 3
Check this video Stephenc66 posted early

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpYX-1rXVg8

liamog

realdanbreen wrote: »

All very confusing, I think I'll just stick to driving in the middle lane!

Which bit is difficult, remembering which is your left, or changing lane to overtake? Neither of these are particularly difficult driving skills.

JazzyJ

Page 147 of the rules of the road.

https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/RotR%20BOOK%20for%20web%202019.pdf

Lane 1
The normal ‘keep left’ rule applies. Stay in this lane unless you are overtaking.

Lane 2
On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into Lane 1
when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging
from the left.
On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is
slower moving traffic in Lane 1.

Lane 3
If you are travelling on a three-lane motorway, you must use this lane only
if traffic in lanes 1 and 2 is moving in queues and you need to overtake or
accommodate merging traffic. Once you’ve finished overtaking, move back to
your left and allow faster traffic coming from behind to pass by.

Its not difficult. I guess people are lazy? Maybe, have their own view of the rules of the road? Who knows. After the last year I've no idea what's going on in the minds of a lot of people

liamog

You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging
from the left.

Unfortunately some people have interpreted this as stay in Lane 2 from junctions 3 to 14.

Miscreant

I'm not sure if half of the posters on here are trolling or if there is genuinely this level of ignorance of the Rules of the Road. The manual clearly states to stay in lane 1 unless overtaking and move back to lane 1 as soon as your overtaking manoeuvre is completed (screenshot attached from the ROTR manual). Surely it is not that difficult to understand? Keep in the leftmost lane unless overtaking.... Simples.

The M50 is one place where this rule goes out the window due to traffic volumes in the morning and evening, however I have driven this road at all times of day and night and there is always more than 1 vehicle sitting in lane 2 (the middle lane) for no reason whatsoever. Same goes for the N7 where, no matter how busy the road is, there will always be vehicles sitting in lane 2 while lane 1 is clear. What baffles me even more is when on a clear stretch of motorway, you see someone move to lane 2 despite there being absolutely nothing in front of them or any slip roads coming up!

Other than issuing a fine to middle lane users, I can't see a way to stop this behaviour as it is endemic on 3 lane carriageways. I don't see it too often on roads with only 2 lanes though.



EDIT: JazzyJ got there before me with this

JazzyJ

One thing for sure, its not an solely an Irish problem. I've seen it in plenty of other countries.

You have to appreciate the Italian way of dealing with it where they'll tailgate you within an inch of your bumper if you pull that shíte.

Miscreant

Miscreant wrote: »

The M50 is one place where this rule goes out the window due to traffic volumes in the morning and evening, however I have driven this road at all times of day and night and there is always more than 1 vehicle sitting in lane 2 (the middle lane) for no reason whatsoever.

Then you'll know also that sitting in Lane 1 as you approach and pass junctions is inviting all sorts of sh1tty behaviour from your fellow motorists, yes?
Changing three lanes at once to make an exit is a common enough occurrence. As is people merging at inappropriate speeds, merging into insufficient space, speeding up so as to not allow others to merge......staying out in lane 2 until you're clear of junctions is the smart, safe move most of the time. Hardly qualifies as "no reason whatsoever".

Another example: people don't leave enough room between cars as it is. When its raining out, having the cars spread out over multiple lanes with increased distancing between them reduces the amount of surface water kicked up in lane one and allows for greater separation between each car. Much safer to have cars spread out in that scenario.

And don't get me started on idiots merging into small spaces on wet roads.....too close to vehicle in front, ease off the speed a bit, increase the gap, some other tool squeezes into your new gap, too close to vehicle in front again, ease off the speed......rinse and repeat.:mad:

JazzyJ wrote: »

You have to appreciate the Italian way of dealing with it where they'll tailgate you within an inch of your bumper if you pull that shíte.

Yeah, cos that's the correct way to deal with something you consider unsafe.......to make it more unsafe for a higher number of people.

Kewreeuss

Deleted User wrote: »

Then you'll know also that sitting in Lane 1 as you approach and pass junctions is inviting all sorts of sh1tty behaviour from your fellow motorists, yes?
Changing three lanes at once to make an exit is a common enough occurrence. As is people merging at inappropriate speeds, merging into insufficient space, speeding up so as to not allow others to merge......staying out in lane 2 until you're clear of junctions is the smart, safe move most of the time. Hardly qualifies as "no reason whatsoever".

Another example: people don't leave enough room between cars as it is. When its raining out, having the cars spread out over multiple lanes with increased distancing between them reduces the amount of surface water kicked up in lane one and allows for greater separation between each car. Much safer to have cars spread out in that scenario.

And don't get me started on idiots merging into small spaces on wet roads.....too close to vehicle in front, ease off the speed a bit, increase the gap, some other tool squeezes into your new gap, too close to vehicle in front again, ease off the speed......rinse and repeat.:mad:



Yeah, cos that's the correct way to deal with something you consider unsafe.......to make it more unsafe for a higher number of people.

Yeah, but if you are in Italy and have a car with its head lights in your back window, you move in pretty quick and you won’t dawdle in the outside lane again. You’re wasting your time in Ireland. If you want to get by and there is a car in front of you they take offence that you want to go faster than them and don’t budge:D Another reason your wasting your time is because too many people do it.

JazzyJ

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, cos that's the correct way to deal with something you consider unsafe.......to make it more unsafe for a higher number of people.

I'm not condoning that behaviour - what I'm getting at is that lack of lane discipline is largely not tolerated there and has a far better level of adherence.

realdanbreen

liamog wrote: »

Which bit is difficult, remembering which is your left, or changing lane to overtake? Neither of these are particularly difficult driving skills.

Oh I dunno, I do a lot of business over the phone as I drive along so between that and listening to Joe Duffy I think I'll just relax and drive along in the middle lane.

horse7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sometimes there's no space, then the car in the inner lane should accommodate the merging car so it can get on safely. It's not a written rule I think, but just the right thing to do.

Just try that driving in America.

WishUWereHere

horse7 wrote: »

Just try that driving in America.

Or on the autobahn sun Germany.

WishUWereHere

realdanbreen wrote: »

Oh I dunno, I do a lot of business over the phone as I drive along so between that and listening to Joe Duffy I think I'll just relax and drive along in the middle lane.

You are joking.........I hope?

BanditLuke

I just stick to the middle lane tbh especially on the M50.

WishUWereHere

BanditLuke wrote: »

I just stick to the middle lane tbh especially on the M50.

So then artics can’t pass according to You( remember they can’t use the outside lane) ?

markmoto

WishUWereHere wrote: »

So then artics can’t pass according to You( remember they can’t use the outside lane) ?

And great mess begins

BanditLuke

WishUWereHere wrote: »

So then artics can’t pass according to You( remember they can’t use the outside lane) ?

Artics are restricted to 90klms. Most middle lane traffic rolls at over 100

markmoto

BanditLuke wrote: »

Artics are restricted to 90klms. Most middle lane traffic rolls at over 100

Once drivers in the middle lane meet someone at 85km/h they eventually start looking around meanwhile slowing down, some move over to 3rd lane at the speed of 100 km/h, cars traveled on the 3rd lane at 120km/h slowing down as well. Trucks catching up... and congestion building up in the bottleneck

twowheelsonly

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Sticking to the speed limit is doing anything under that limit. A driver doing 70 in a 120 zone is sticking to the speed limit.

That can be a Drivng Test fail (failure to make progress) as well as considered dangerous driving (driving too slowly for conditions) as it can lead to accidents.

Darc19

Forget it.

I was driving from clondalkin to Kildare today and was behind a Garda car.

He hung about in the middle lane with lane one devoid of any traffic.

I drove lane one about 200m steadily behind him.

Just after the Johnstown exit he moved to lane one and then to the naas only lane.

Basically from newlands cross to Naas, he sat in the middle lane.

WishUWereHere

BanditLuke wrote: »

Artics are restricted to 90klms. Most middle lane traffic rolls at over 100

It doesn’t matter what speed an article is travelling at, you said You stick to the middle lane mostly, let me ask you a question, why is the inside lane there?

markmoto

Darc19 wrote: »

Forget it.

I was driving from clondalkin to Kildare today and was behind a Garda car.

He hung about in the middle lane with lane one devoid of any traffic.

I drove lane one about 200m steadily behind him.

Just after the Johnstown exit he moved to lane one and then to the naas only lane.

Basically from newlands cross to Naas, he sat in the middle lane.

Doing research after reading boards.ie

Damien360

Darc19 wrote: »

Forget it.

I was driving from clondalkin to Kildare today and was behind a Garda car.

He hung about in the middle lane with lane one devoid of any traffic.

I drove lane one about 200m steadily behind him.

Just after the Johnstown exit he moved to lane one and then to the naas only lane.

Basically from newlands cross to Naas, he sat in the middle lane.

Just a couple of weeks ago on M7 just past ball at Naas going southbound, I came across the community Garda car, white Tucson with Garda emblazoned on it but no blue light strip on it. Driving in middle lane at about 110. I was in left most lane, moved to middle and then to most right holding 120 in cruise control, passed him and then all the way back to left most lane. He never budged out of lane and I kept making progress in left lane, moving in and out to pass traffic on left lane. Could see him behind in the distance still trundling along in middle lane as a moving road block.

tommyombomb

Not gonna lie, i like the middle lane and didnt give it much thought. Never knew it was an issue. Just mindlessly drove along, sometimes moving into fast lane to pass out.

Definitely be more aware going forward. Cant remember when i did my test but dont remember seeing this in the theory part.

Zatoichi

StevenToast wrote: »

If someone is hogging the middle lane....i overtake them...problem solved

Ah! But then you have the Lane 3 Hoggers!

Henry Ford III

I think it's mainly down to laziness. Sit in the middle lane and do nothing.

Lane discipline is poor on the motorway network, and gets worse the nearer you get to Dublin in my experience.

The M50 is a complete farce.

GM228

We're doing well, 137 posts in and it hasn't turned into a debacle about overtaking on the left (or roundabouts for good measure).......yet.

Wanderer78

Henry Ford III wrote:

I think it's mainly down to laziness. Sit in the middle lane and do nothing.

I still think it's more human behaviour than anything, we commonly default to the less stressful situation

cpoh1

Zatoichi wrote: »

Ah! But then you have the Lane 3 Hoggers!

That was sublime!

Miscreant

Zatoichi wrote: »

Ah! But then you have the Lane 3 Hoggers!

That just made my Friday. I would love to have been a fly on the wall listening to that conversation.... "Oh, I didn't see you" couldn't possibly be an excuse in this case

markmoto

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I think it's mainly down to laziness. Sit in the middle lane and do nothing.

Lane discipline is poor on the motorway network, and gets worse the nearer you get to Dublin in my experience.

The M50 is a complete farce.

Good time to introduce motorway teaching lessons for L drivers.

WishUWereHere

Seen something today that stunned me: coach in middle lane on the M7 NB, car behind it, car shifted to inside lane,, undercut the coach, then pulled back into the middle lane in front of the coach & carried on.



what goes on in people's mind?

SCOOP 64

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Seen something today that stunned me: coach in middle lane on the M7 NB, car behind it, car shifted to inside lane,, undercut the coach, then pulled back into the middle lane in front of the coach & carried on.



what goes on in people's mind?

Sounds like frustration that the coach was taking too long to move into inside lane.

WishUWereHere

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Sounds like frustration that the coach was taking too long to move into inside lane.

Maybe, but I was ahead of both in the inside lane, & seeing the car undercut the coach twigged my interest.


This middle lane hogging needs law enforcement. I notice ( especially SB from the Ball ) HGV's also hogging the middle lane.

liamog

WishUWereHere wrote: »

This middle lane hogging needs law enforcement. I notice ( especially SB from the Ball ) HGV's also hogging the middle lane.

The one actual answer to OPs question, why do they do it, because there is no enforcement.

Andrewf20

During quiet times, ill usually sit on the left on the M50 but the middle of the day trying to stay left is an absolute pain as you get caught by slow drivers all the time resulting in frequent lane hopping, so its the middle where I spend most of my time on the speed limit. Theres a lane to overtake still so I dont see what the issue is.

Tombo2001

There are a thousand and one things about driving that you could say "why do drivers do this" when they are not supposed to.....

A few off the top of my head examples - why do car owners

- pull over on the side of motorways to make phone calls
- park on footpaths
- park on cycle lanes
- accelerate through orange lights
- stop the car on yellow grid box
- drive in bus lane
- pull u-turns where its not allowed
- drive 10k over the speed limit (or 20k or 30k)
- adjust speed after the limit sign changes, as opposed to before it
- tailgate
- look at their phone in slow moving traffic
- and so on and so on and so on.

The broad approach seems to be that as long as you dont crash into anyone, its ok to do the rest of the stuff 60% right.

And if you get stopped by the Gardai for any of the above, then you get sympathy from other drivers - why arent they going after the real criminals, shooting fish in a barrel etc.

And on the other hand expect a completely different (higher) standard of rule compliance from other road users such as cyclists.

Its just mental what drivers get away with.

Tombo2001

liamog wrote: »

The one actual answer to OPs question, why do they do it, because there is no enforcement.

why is it always someone elses fault.

This annoys me no end.

Its like the people who throw rubbish everywhere, and then give out because theres not enough bins - as if they have no other choice.

You know the rules.

You make a conscious decision not to obey them - thats on you.....

Its not the Gardai's fault that you do this.

The flip side is that if the Gardai do try to enforce there is uproar.

There are radio stations that will announce speeding checkpoints, warn drivers to watch out for them.

There is a massive culture of non compliance.

Andrewf20

Tombo2001 wrote: »

why is it always someone elses fault.

This annoys me no end.

Its like the people who throw rubbish everywhere, and then give out because theres not enough bins - as if they have no other choice.

You know the rules.

You make a conscious decision not to obey them - thats on you.....

Its not the Gardai's fault that you do this.

The flip side is that if the Gardai do try to enforce there is uproar.

There are radio stations that will announce speeding checkpoints, warn drivers to watch out for them.

There is a massive culture of non compliance.

Its known as public choice theory (on wiki). People will sometimes choose their own selfish interests over the common good. Its part of human behaviour and is found in pretty much every walk of life and we are all guilty of it somewhere, sometime.

A cognitive bias thats also seen in people is a tendency to hold other people to higher standards than themselves. So, for example if another driver beeps you for a transgression, you will tend to go on the defensive and say you judgement is not in the wrong. Or another example is people who will give out about cyclists breaking red lights but they themselves will jaywalk all day long.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

Oh I dunno, I do a lot of business over the phone as I drive along so between that and listening to Joe Duffy I think I'll just relax and drive along in the middle lane.

I cannot understand all the hoo haw about motorway driving where, regardless of the number of lanes, all the traffic is going in the same direction.
The real drivers in this country are the rural folk who drive on narrow windy roads where very often there isn't room for two cars to pass never mind tractors, gravel trucks etc. You never know when some gob****e is going to come flying around the bend on the wrong side. If you do hit him on an unmarked road it's tough **** as those collisions are regarded as 50/50 regardless of the fact the gob****e was in the middle of the road. As for cyclists! They should be barred from country roads, let them into a park or somewhere to cycle round.