Why do car owners drive in the middle lane?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041254#Comment_121041254

Instead of sitting in lane 1 and not passing lane 2 drivers on the left, are you instead sitting in lane 2 and adding to the problem, or are you overtaking the drivers in lane 2 by moving out to lane 3. It's a relatively simple extra step then to make the final lane change back to lane 1. You can then pretty easily just look out the window and anticipate upcoming traffic to move out again as needed.

If you manage that you'll achieve that most advanced driving skill of driving on a multi lane motorway.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041098#Comment_121041098

I wouldn't call a person who finds changing lanes on a motorway difficult experienced if they feel the need to sit in lane 2 to avoid lane changes and handling mergers. It's clearly a sign of lack of driving experience.

djan

The amount of people using wild gymnastics to justify their inability to use a motorway just shows why this is such a big problem here. Having driven on many motorways in countries where camping in an overtaking lane is not tolerated whatsoever (police, cameras or people flashing/beeping) it always leads higher road capacity. Of course, this does not apply to heavy traffic jams.

The safety argument for staying in L2 doesn't make sense either as then you are forcing people from L1 to change two lanes rather than one to make progress. People sitting in overtaking lanes also leads to a lot of people undertaking which is another big problem all together.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041493#Comment_121041493

On certain sections of the M50, religiously moving from L1 to L2 to L1 to facilitate mergers, while also maintaining a safe distance to traffic both in front and behind you, can be totally impractical, and certainly does add unnecessary risk at busy times.

There is a distance of 500m between Ballymount and the N7 (Red Cow). At 100km/h (27m/s), that's just 18 seconds.

Spread at correct 2s intervals, that's just 9 cars allowed in L2 between the exits at any time, not that anyone maintains that anyway. Even if just one or two cars try to move from L1 to L2 to facilitate joiners, there becomes very little time to match speed, look for a safe gap, and move out, while also maintaining a safe gap to the car in front of you in L1, who is at the same time trying to slow down to find a gap to merge onto the Exit Slip.

Equally, religiously following the rules to the letter, is clearly a sign of lack of driving experience.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041928#Comment_121041928

Yes I cover that section regularly and know what you mean. However I don't use that to justify sitting in lane 2 when driving between Dundrum and Knocklyon.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041548#Comment_121041548

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041488#Comment_121041488

Nail on the head there, if the gardai actually enforced lane discipline on the M50 then this unproductive discussion would be moot.

However, until such time as this happens, Ill just have to suffer the ignominy of being slagged off on an anonymous internet forum for not being able to achieve the theoretically correct motorway advanced driving standard as I will continue to avoid the dance from L1 to L3 and back to L1 to overtake the perpetuall dawdlers in L2 during busy M50 traffic.

As previously mentioned by another poster, in reality for the most part this involves staying in L3 unless there is a safe gap in L2 traffic to move across or until L2 traffic is actually moving slower than I am (unless I spot a car coming up behind me travelling above the speed limit as Im certainly not going to police speed limits by holding any driver up) which tbh is pretty rare given the high volume of dawdlers in L2 these days.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039408#Comment_121039408

It's nothing to do with the notion of higher moral ground - it's simply using the road properly and in accordance with the relevant legislation.

Yes it's harder work but such is life.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041951#Comment_121041951

Well of course yep, but @_Kaiser_ did refer to some of the middle sections only.

What we on a motoring forum often forget too is that it can be genuinely hard for a sub 70bhp car to get upto 100km/h (or more if needed) say when entering on a short slip roads. Even more important say when going Northbound form Knocklyon, the Tallaght exit lane can be blocked quite far back, and people driving in L1 make no account of this and pass stationary traffic in the next lane way too fast.

The odd time I've borrowed my sisters car I'm reminded to always move out to L2 to give joiners more room. My car has well over 3 times that power and lots of torque low down so I can accelerate hard whenever I need to match speed.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042100#Comment_121042100

That's good anticipation and a sign of an experienced driver, not like most of the people on the M50 who will move straight into lane 2 and camp there until their exit at which point they'll do a mad dash for the slip road.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042050#Comment_121042050

Presumably you would never exceed the legislated speed limit to safely overtake a slower moving car, or for that matter never exceed the legislated speed limit period😂

DownByTheGarden

Less likely to come up behind a stopped car who has decided to pass the ones queing in the filter lane and has now decided that stopping in L1 is the best way to join the filter lane. Particalrly dangerous when you come up to one of them in bad weather, or worse the person in from of you jams on the brakes when they encounter one in front of them.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116920135#Comment_116920135

What's wrong with auld lads? Or peak caps for that matter! There's a lot of drivers out there who think driving a motor issue kind of art form. It's no big deal ,drive along nice and handy and as for those fukkers who reverse into a space turning the steering wheel with the palm of their hand, they should be shot if only for being gobshites. And when it comes to some fella driving up my arse on the motorway, i simply tip the rear foglight, you can almost see the sudden fear on their faces!

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042153#Comment_121042153

I do my best to be safe and compliant.

You deliberately and admittedly lane hog through laziness.

Ain't you great.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042775#Comment_121042775

Accept Im being pedantic but I take it then that, despite doing your best, you do at times drive in a non compliant manner. Hopefully, for the rest of us, when that happens, you're actually aware of it and continue to drive in a safe, if not fully compliant manner

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042840#Comment_121042840

Not your concern Maurice.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041254#Comment_121041254

There is one person you can stop from hogging lane 2. Thats the only person I am asking you to stop.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042027#Comment_121042027

TL;DR

I am going to drive in whatever lane leads me to not have to make basic overtaking maneuvers.

If the M50 was 10 lanes wide you would still sit in lane 10 because you think you are a fast driver and dont want to have to overtake others.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121046132#Comment_121046132

Again living in a theoretical world. Sorry sir/miss I live in the real world

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121046115#Comment_121046115

Tbh that's not going to make a blind bit of difference. Maybe, as I suggested earlier, a placard on an overpass?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121046132#Comment_121046132

Well, in my case ... If all of the other 9 lanes were filled with traffic moving slower, or jumping between lanes and cutting each other off as they merge/exit, or weaving/undertaking dangerously across multiple lanes to get a car length ahead (as is a regular feature on the 3-lane M50/N7), or just so busy that they were all effectively driving lanes, then I would absolutely sit out in L10.

But then I don't dawdle, and have no issue keeping up with the flow of traffic or driving at the limits when no reason not to. It's pretty rare that I'm overtaken actually because most people seem incapable of this.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121046448#Comment_121046448

It seems obvious, but based on how the thread is going it might be worth pointing it out.

If everyone looked after themselves then there wouldn't be a problem.

Plenty of times I will move from Lane 1 to Lane 3 to overtake an idiot in Lane 2, which then causes them to move into Lane 1 when they realise that they shouldnt be in Lane 2.

It all helps. Doing what you do not only doesnt make it better, it actively makes it worse.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047536#Comment_121047536

Its probably pretty rare that you get overtaken because you are only driving in the outside lane and there is nowhere for people to over take you.

A better question might be how often you get overtaken on the left...assuming you would notice?

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058178678/why-do-car-owners-drive-in-the-middle-lane

I genuinely overheard a conversation today with a young lady who thought the three lanes were 1. Slow, 2. Driving, and 3. Fast. When she was challenged on the nonsense she responded with ‘well, I don’t care. That’s my opinion and I’ve a right to my opinion’. Something was then mumbled about ‘mansplaining’. Interestingly, the only fella in the group she was with wasn’t doing any of the correcting. I suspect he’d been there before…

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048573#Comment_121048573

You'll have to do better than that - but to answer the question, it's pretty rare I'm overtaken full stop.

Why? Because I drive at the speed limits when there's no reason not to - something many seem incapable of doing if the dozens of cars I overtake on a motorway trip is any indication - can keep up with the flow of traffic in general, and I value my time, as well as being very aware of what is going on around me and adapting my driving accordingly (a very useful skill in general but also for example to be able to anticipate the dawdler who has been sitting behind a HGV for as long as you've seen them but who will pick that moment when you're about to pass to pull out in front of you - usually given away by their drifting towards the line while thinking about it).

But if you prefer to sit in L1 of a busy 3 lane road where all lanes are effectively driving lanes much of the day then work away. If nothing else it means I won't have to deal with you.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049054#Comment_121049054

I do wonder why you insist in bringing all these strawman arguments to build "help" defense? They have no bearing on your inability to follow the basic rules of the road.

Do you drive in lane 1 when there is no reason not to?

I don't sit in L1 all day, I move in and out as needed, likewise for moving from L2 to L3. This is how a motorway is designed to be used. Laziness is not a valid excuse.

What I dont do is sit in L3 when L2 is free or sit in L2 when L1 is free.

You can add in all the excuses and unrelated arguments you want, but all the literature and the rules of the road tell you how to drive on a motorway, but you know better.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048599#Comment_121048599

Sure what do you expect her to do? Overtake and change lanes as required? Next you will want her to indicate and use a roundabout correctly.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049149#Comment_121049149

I covered this previously but the centre stretch of the M50 (J6-J11 and the first few exits on the N7) are in reality too busy and with too many exits/merges in close proximity that in reality all 3 lanes become driving lanes at peak times which is pretty much daylight hours at this stage.

You can go on about the rules of the road all you want but in reality it's far more important to be able to observe, read the situation, and adapt accordingly to it. There's thus no way that weaving across 2/3 lanes and back in the conditions I refer to above is safer, sensible or even practical vs minimising unnecessary lane changes instead.

If L2 (or L1 on a 2-lane road or at off-peak hours on a 3-lane road) is clear for more than maybe 200m I'll use it but what I won't do is constantly switch lanes to satisfy a theory that makes no sense in busy conditions.

I read here about "middle lane hoggers" or undertaking and all these other issues and frustrations and honestly I can't say I'm affected by them. The only time I have any real issues on the M50 is when traffic is so busy that it's at a crawl or stand still but beyond that I can usually cruise one end of it to the other without any incidents or delays most of the time.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049201#Comment_121049201

In no way is that stretch too busy during daylight hours.

I drive it everyday in both directions.

Again with the deflections about how your superior driving skills enable you to disregard the basic rules of the road.

Its eminently practical. I do wonder how you survive on single lane carriageways if overtaking is such a taxing effort for you?

200M is perfectly fine to stay in L2 for. Not a single person is saying you need to move in and out every car.

However most people radically underestimate how long it will take them to make up 200M on the car in front (note that its not travel 200M its make up 200M)

Your post is also contradictory. In one sentence you say its too busy during dayling hours to drive properly. Then you end with saying you can cruise from one end to the other without changing lanes. Which is it?

As for you not being affected by MLMs.

_Kaiser_

Nope, your funny but irrelevant cartoon aside, I just move into L3 and overtake all the MLMs without incident 99% of the time, thereby not affected. When the traffic spreads out again/eases I will move left if it makes sense to do so (ie: if I won't be switching lanes 5/10 seconds later again anyway).

You feel free to slavishly follow the rules while patting yourself on the back and oblivious of what's happening around you because "you're right!" though. There's a lot of drivers like that - generally the same types who try to police the roads themselves, or who will hold up a line of cars because "it's a limit, not a target" etc.

I find it's better to leave such folk to it behind me and get on with my day.

If we're doing funny clips though, do you find yourself saying this a lot..?

https://youtu.be/MUOga5gKN1M?si=iOChu_sAU4-npVRy

AndrewJRenko

From the UK

https://x.com/surreyrs/status/1696934358303625483?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

Flinty997

In the UK they obey rules better than Ireland. They also enforce them unlike here. If people don't fear enforcement they won't obey them.

That said even in the UK on an orbital route with lots of exits and joining lane in a short distance most people will stay out of the first lane.

For all the valid complaints about Irish driving. UK roads are lot more tiring to drive on with all the lane changing.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050515#Comment_121050515

If you find lane changing tiring then stay off the motorway and on the back/national roads instead.

Too many people think driving on a motorway mean you stick CC onto 120 and disengage your brain.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050691#Comment_121050691

6 hours on a UK motorway is far more exhausting than Irish motorways. Irish motorways are half empty most of the time.

Often routing via the A or B roads in the UK are vastly more pleasant and even faster, instead of getting stuck in traffic Jam on the motorway for hours. M50 in Ireland is often the slowest route.

GSBellew

If it's owners in the middle lane do the people on PCP drive in the left or right lane?

Just checking to make sure I know which lane I should be in if I borrow a car 😆

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051007#Comment_121051007

Any lane. You have a higher purpose.

Isthisthingon?

I used to drive the M9 from Carlow to Naas / Newbridge almost daily since the motorway was built , often driving further onto the M50 and beyond. On the M9 I stayed left, moved into lane 2 to overtake and back to lane 1, nothing to it. Every day without fail I was baffled by drivers ( in all brands of car/ trucks and jeeps) who would sit in L2 on empty stretches' for Kilometer's at a time - ( The M9 southbound after Kilcullen to Waterford is not a busy motorway broadly speaking) - why? - laziness? , genuine ignorance of motorway etiquette and rules of the road? , daydreaming? who knows.

Then you approach the merge with the M7 / N7 and I would also try for as long as I could to stay in Lane 1 but I will be the first to admit that after 2 mins on that road or the M50 it is if you cant beat them join them as the lane indiscipline is infuriating. I will invariably do lane 2 & 3 at peak times.

One last point and this sums up Irish driving - would often land in Dublin airport at midnight or later from the UK and drive home, with the M50/ N7 to myself and a few stragglers - 3 lanes empty and without fail you'd see lads driving in lane 3 all the way.

Flinty997

If 3 lanes are empty, does it matter?

Isthisthingon?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051441#Comment_121051441

'Your Honour - I rest my case. '

Henry Ford III

I was on the Naas Road this morning (outbound 3 lane section).

I used lane 1 whenever possible and noticed a good few drivers hogging lane 3 when lane 2 was empty.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052144#Comment_121052144

What issue? You have 3 EMPTY lanes.

People here with their head buried in the ROF looking for issues where none exist, driving themselves apoplectic.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052195#Comment_121052195

Perhaps they were keeping their distance from erratic driving in lane 1? 🤣

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052299#Comment_121052299

How do you overtake someone driving in lane 3 when the other 2 lanes are empty?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121053019#Comment_121053019

He said "3" lanes empty

Even if it wasn't. Very unlikely someone in the early hours is driving slowly on an empty motorway. Or do you mean you have to overtake no matter what speed they are doing.

Last two late trips I did to the airport at 1-2am there was gridlock. Traffic at standstill. Had to come off the M50 to get around it.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121053019#Comment_121053019

Well I would be in lane one and driving at my speed, if that meant overtaking Kaiser cruising in lane 3, I'd drive on.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121053153#Comment_121053153

Ah but see, you didn't read my posts properly where I said that at quieter periods, I will happily use L1

If all lanes were empty in the middle of the night that would be such an occasion.

However, regardless you wouldn't need to worry about needing to overtake me as I don't dawdle unnecessarily and am quite capable of driving at speed - however if you're suggesting that your overtake would mean you legally speeding, well I couldn't possibly comment!

Just watch out around exit 6 outbound on the N7 as there's regularly a squad car sitting there at night in the dark watching for speeders.

standardg60

I drive in the middle lane for several reasons, firstly it's safer (for me) as i don't have the confidence to constantly change lanes. Secondly, it's just less hassle (for me) as why should i have to go out of my way to accommodate other drivers. Thirdly, i'm driving at the legal speed limit so there should be no reason whatsoever why i should have to move over to let you on your way. Fourthly, there's a car in L1 that's been travelling at the same speed as me for my whole journey, we're both at the limit so what's to be done?

So to summarise, i can't use my mirrors, i'm extremely selfish, i like to police other drivers, and i'm incapable of realising the effect my driving has on other road users.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121053355#Comment_121053355

Road Rage set to "simmer" lol.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121053418#Comment_121053418

Ah yes i forgot the 5th one, anyone who has an issue or who gets annoyed by my sh1t driving should just chill out, shure what's the harm? We'll all get there eventually.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121053097#Comment_121053097

Forget about the speeds, on an otherwise empty motorway you catch up to someone who is sitting in L3, sure they motorway is empty, why woudln't they right?

How do you pass them?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121053212#Comment_121053212

If we could get them to ticket the idiots in the wrong lane then we would all get where we want to go faster and more efficiently.