Are laurel hedges much tougher than Portuguese Laurel

magicbastarder

i know precisely nothing about when is best to prune laurel, so my advice is the most unbiased. only prune them on a day with a B in it, when the wind is blowing from the southeast.

standardg60

standardg60 wrote: »

Again, i was responding directly to the poster. Do you have a protective boundary wall surrounding your plants?
With plants it's not feasible to apply a 'one fits all' approach, what works for you doesn't work for all.
As an example the other recent poster has an established lusitanica hedge (pics posted in another thread) whom i wouldn't have given the same advice to at all, but were happy to advise based on Dr. Google.
I gave my advice based on personal experience of the actual pic posted, if the poster chooses to ignore it that's fine, but others wading in based on different experiences/internet searches annoys me.

Life's too short to be getting excited over cutting a hedge. Zero offence intended and the OP seems happy he has the advice he needs now. Happy gardening.

henke

Deleted User wrote: »

Life's too short to be getting excited over cutting a hedge. Zero offence intended and the OP seems happy he has the advice he needs now. Happy gardening.

Not be be rude/pedantic I was actually the OP and the inthehunt then added their own issues and am happy they got the help they needed. It is lashing rain here today so I will put up some pics tomorrow

My original query was if laurel was a better bet/easier to grow and if Hornbeam/other is hardier/easier to grow if the soil isn't great in comparison to Portuguese. Some good info in here and I hopefully I get some better guidance when I put up some pics. Thanks.

henke

henke wrote: »

Not be be rude/pedantic I was actually the OP and the inthehunt then added their own issues and am happy they got the help they needed. It is lashing rain here today so I will put up some pics tomorrow

My original query was if laurel was a better bet/easier to grow and if Hornbeam/other is hardier/easier to grow if the soil isn't great in comparison to Portuguese. Some good info in here and I hopefully I get some better guidance when I put up some pics. Thanks.

Sorry, mixed you up there.

I can't comment on hornbeam as I've never grown it, but cherry laurel is very fast growing (some would say aggressive), takes up quite a bit of space and requires alot of maintenance.

standardg60

Deleted User wrote: »

Life's too short to be getting excited over cutting a hedge. Zero offence intended and the OP seems happy he has the advice he needs now. Happy gardening.

No offence taken, same to you.

henke

henke wrote: »

Not be be rude/pedantic I was actually the OP and the inthehunt then added their own issues

Apologies henke... I did kinda hi-jack your thread . You should have told me to butt out! Hope the green-fingered people here can help you out.

henke

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry, mixed you up there.

I can't comment on hornbeam as I've never grown it, but cherry laurel is very fast growing (some would say aggressive), takes up quite a bit of space and requires alot of maintenance.

I assume cherry laurel is what is known as just as laurel. You know I think back at the time the gardening centre said Portuguese Laurel was just as hardy and easier maintained and looked nicer as it had a smaller leaf. It hasn't done well for me however and regular Laurel might not be the answer if it also has problems although I do see a lot of it the neighbourhood making me think it's hardier/safer bet to grow. I suppose that is my first requirement based on my current bad experience but then yeah laurel could go too much the other way. Not sure on alternative hedges myself. Anyway will post up some pics as soon as the rain eases of. Thanks.

looksee

I have a single hornbeam tree as a specimen and it is flying - went in as a barely 4ft tree last autumn and is now over 5 ft and looking very well. It is not evergreen though. The elaeagnus I mentioned earlier is evergreen.

macraignil

henke wrote: »

I assume cherry laurel is what is known as just as laurel. You know I think back at the time the gardening centre said Portuguese Laurel was just as hardy and easier maintained and looked nicer as it had a smaller leaf. It hasn't done well for me however and regular Laurel might not be the answer if it also has problems although I do see a lot of it the neighbourhood making me think it's hardier/safer bet to grow. I suppose that is my first requirement based on my current bad experience but then yeah laurel could go too much the other way. Not sure on alternative hedges myself. Anyway will post up some pics as soon as the rain eases of. Thanks.

Cherry laurel is also referred to as common laurel and I think it is probably the fastest growing of the options mentioned. This means it is more work to trim and the big leaves mean it is best kept as a big hedge in my opinion. If it is kept small I have seen examples where a lot of leaves were cut in half and did not look great. I only have the one Portugal laurel plant growing and it is not thriving but it is growing right next to a spiraea that is probably competing a bit much with the Portugal laurel for it to be doing great. Its leaves usually improve in the summer. Planted some common laurel in a hedge last year and they are doing OK but it was very dry after they were planted and I did not do much watering so I have had to add some more to fill gaps where the odd one died. If your Portugal laurel is in place for a while and is still alive I think you may be best persisting with it as it can often just take some time for plants to settle in a new position before growing at their best. The toughest hedge plants I think are white thorn and hornbeam and here is a video clip of a hedge of these I planted. The hornbeam keeps some leaves overwinter like beech but has the advantage of being a bit tougher and tolerant of damp soil.

Your hedge being planted in summer might not have been the easiest time of year for it to settle in and so its development may be a bit slower than might be expected. I find many plants can take two years before they settle in and start growing properly but if it is straggly then it may be just that it is not being trimmed enough. I think a formal evergreen hedge usually needs to be trimmed twice a year to grow dense and look neat but your photos might give more information.

Lemon Davis lll

Prunus Laurocerasus Novita is widely available too OP and is apparently even hardier than traditional cherry laurel in terms of frost and disease.

bakerbhoy

inthehat wrote: »

Beech and Hornbeam although lovely are a lot slower, I needed something to fill a gap where we took out a few leylandiis so I didn't want to waiting for years to get back my privacy.

We put in hornbeam saplings 1.5ft in 2013, destroyed by rabbits first year, topped them out last year 2020 to a height of 8 ft . The tallest had reached close to 12 ft.

garv123

I planted 140 of them last year, they were about a foot high in cup sized pots. I'd say I'll be lucky if 1/3 of them are gonna grow this year. some lost all leaves, and more are very yellow and withered.

Mango Joe

henke wrote: »

Not be be rude/pedantic I was actually the OP and the inthehunt then added their own issues and am happy they got the help they needed. It is lashing rain here today so I will put up some pics tomorrow

My original query was if laurel was a better bet/easier to grow and if Hornbeam/other is hardier/easier to grow if the soil isn't great in comparison to Portuguese. Some good info in here and I hopefully I get some better guidance when I put up some pics. Thanks.

To directly answer your question to the best of my ability (and I must admit I am quite nervous and anxious now that people are being held to account on their contributions with rigorous and vigorous contention of all stated views for their authenticity, veracity and general good standing)

In my opinion one of the best measures of Laurels ability to establish itself and grow prolifically in Ireland can be seen in many of our forests and national parks where it has taken root in all kinds of land, in and out of shade and under previously established woodland canopy and even then is growing out of all control.

I've a lot of laurel and it grows almost incessantly throughout most of the year and if left untamed would take over the garden and ambitiously try and touch the sky.

Personally my direct experience with my own Laurel hedge was to plant in March - I left it a couple of months as I wanted it to have time to settle and develop its root system to some small extent & then I pruned it a couple of months later - This produced really good results and I was delighted with it for a finish.

While this feels like you're going backwards a step - what you're really doing is kick-starting the plant to fight back and it then develops a load of extra new growth all over the plant which ends up being far above what you originally had.

standardg60 wrote: »

No offence taken, same to you.

So very glad the thread has been wrestled back in line with your expectations - If only there was a fully professional Forum one could post on without all the amateur Gardeners cluttering the place with their...thoughts.

henke

garv123 wrote: »

I planted 140 of them last year, they were about a foot high in cup sized pots. I'd say I'll be lucky if 1/3 of them are gonna grow this year. some lost all leaves, and more are very yellow and withered.

That is a pain. Are you referring to PL?

henke

So have included some pics and a vid. Poor for something planted in 2017.

https://i.imgur.com/DRqMWmx.mp4

So, considering its been down so long is there anything worth saving or better to rip it out and go with something tougher. And to add in 2018/19 much of it seemed to well before getting worse.

Mango Joe

Poor you - You seem to have done everything right in that it looks like you dug out a fine trench and have a bark chip mulch that a hedge should love but have been left with less hedge and more a collection of sorry looking sticks after 4 years.

Something is definitely wrong here - Is there any way there could be soil contamination of some sort?

If you could rule the above out I'd be planting a load of regular Laurel and getting on with my life - After 4 years you'd probably wouldn't be far off having a 6 foot tall hedge with full density/screening ie. this is where you should be at now.

- You could pick up 2-3 in a nursery and plant them for a test perhaps - Just to see if they take off.

garv123

henke wrote: »

That is a pain. Are you referring to PL?

Yeah Portuguese Laurel, We were doing ground works at the time and we used a bucket of the digger to loosen all the soil before planting. used marine manure
pellets whilst planting.

Some areas got a bit waterlogged which didnt help. Invading grass was a bit of a problem too. I must tackle it again and clear any weeds and use some fertilizer.

macraignil

henke wrote: »

So have included some pics and a vid. Poor for something planted in 2017.

https://i.imgur.com/DRqMWmx.mp4

So, considering its been down so long is there anything worth saving or better to rip it out and go with something tougher. And to add in 2018/19 much of it seemed to well before getting worse.

Definitely looks like something has gone wrong there. Were the roots of the hedge plants pot bound when you planted them? Sometimes if plants are in pots too long the roots start to curl around to fit the shape of the pot and they need to be teased out in order to grow properly afterwards. Otherwise the ball of roots remains constricted and it makes it difficult for the plants to develop normal roots that stretch into the ground.



I also have heard that enriching the planting hole for trees and shrubs too much with manure and compost can lead to the roots just staying in that area and not reaching into the soil as they can find all the nutrients they need close to where they are planted and in the long term this slows the plant development as they do not get properly anchored in the ground. I would not dig a trench for planting a hedge and think it is better to make small individual planting holes for each plant or slits in the soil for bare roots and never enrich the planting hole in order to encourage the roots to stretch out to find the nutrients they need.



Light frequent watering to only encourage surface roots is also said to be detrimental to the long term development of plants which will develop better root systems if the area is properly soaked less frequently when first planted as then roots will be encouraged to grow deeper and eventually access water deeper down and more reliably from rain fed ground water.


It may be that your hedge roots have just sat in the trench this entire time because of being pot bound or the trench having too much nutrients or poor watering technique and poor root development is the reason the hedge has not developed to a normal size. This could happen with any type of hedge plant so it is worth investigating if any of these were the cause of the slow development of your hedge. Maybe dig one up and see what is happening with the roots.

standardg60

henke wrote: »

So have included some pics and a vid. Poor for something planted in 2017.

https://i.imgur.com/DRqMWmx.mp4

So, considering its been down so long is there anything worth saving or better to rip it out and go with something tougher. And to add in 2018/19 much of it seemed to well before getting worse.

Yes sorry OP they are not worth persevering with, to me they do indeed look like imports which have failed to acclimatise. To me they are just suffering from the exposure.

You are much more likely to find Irish grown cherry (laurocerasus) laurel and they are better on acidic soils anyway (assuming you are in a rural location).
If you would prefer something more manageable than the common species, 'etna' is a lovely variety with red tinged young growth or 'novita' as someone else has suggested.

standardg60

Mango Joe wrote: »

To directly answer your question to the best of my ability (and I must admit I am quite nervous and anxious now that people are being held to account on their contributions with rigorous and vigorous contention of all stated views for their authenticity, veracity and general good standing)

In my opinion one of the best measures of Laurels ability to establish itself and grow prolifically in Ireland can be seen in many of our forests and national parks where it has taken root in all kinds of land, in and out of shade and under previously established woodland canopy and even then is growing out of all control.

I've a lot of laurel and it grows almost incessantly throughout most of the year and if left untamed would take over the garden and ambitiously try and touch the sky.

Personally my direct experience with my own Laurel hedge was to plant in March - I left it a couple of months as I wanted it to have time to settle and develop its root system to some small extent & then I pruned it a couple of months later - This produced really good results and I was delighted with it for a finish.

While this feels like you're going backwards a step - what you're really doing is kick-starting the plant to fight back and it then develops a load of extra new growth all over the plant which ends up being far above what you originally had.



So very glad the thread has been wrestled back in line with your expectations - If only there was a fully professional Forum one could post on without all the amateur Gardeners cluttering the place with their...thoughts.

Seeing as you wish to passive aggressively target me with your first post in this thread i'll put you back in your box.
From a horticultural perspective what you're recommending is nonsense. Pruning of any plant after it's started into growth forces it to expend energy replacing the growth it would have instead used for flowering and root development. Pruning plants later in the growing season, ie. June/July, is only done by humans who want to encourage more flowering in early season flowering plants. It is not in the actual plant's best interests, which would rather be left alone.
Formative pruning, if necessary, should be done before the plant has broken into new growth, thereby ensuring that all available energy is put into the growth where you want it to be.
I am not here to make friends, i post to share my 28 years of horticultural experience so that others may gain knowledge and foremost pleasure from gardening. That is my only concern, and if i step on some toes along the way so be it.

Ps. your second post i agree with!

henke

Not sure if they pot bound but healthy when small and just dug out small holes and put them in the ground. I'll bear in mind teasing out roots if I redo a new one.
It was last year I decided to dig off the top layer and remove the grass and put some compost and bark down to stop the grass to see if it would help. I think it might just be a case they haven't acclimatised.

Those other variants which you said are manageable sound interesting. Are they native also and likely better to acclimatise than the Portuguese ones?
Would they be on par with the common variant?

I suppose after this mess the first requirement is best likely to grow in less than optimal soil, whether a laurel variant or otherwise and the secondary requirement been manageable and how fast it grows.

standardg60

henke wrote: »

Not sure if they pot bound but healthy when small and just dug out small holes and put them in the ground. I'll bear in mind teasing out roots if I redo a new one.
It was last year I decided to dig off the top layer and remove the grass and put some compost and bark down to stop the grass to see if it would help. I think it might just be a case they haven't acclimatised.

Those other variants which you said are manageable sound interesting. Are they native also and likely better to acclimatise than the Portuguese ones?
Would they be on par with the common variant?

I suppose after this mess the first requirement is best likely to grow in less than optimal soil, whether a laurel variant or otherwise and the secondary requirement been manageable and how fast it grows.

It's not so much that they're native (none are), but that they've been grown from slips or plugs here. As long as that is the case, anything should be fine.

henke

standardg60 wrote: »

It's not so much that they're native (none are), but that they've been grown from slips or plugs here. As long as that is the case, anything should be fine.

Thanks, is it a fair comment to say any of laurocerasus, Etna or Novita are a better bet than Portuguese? Would you say any of these are more suited than others suggested eg Hornbeam?

What would be the optimal time to plant these? May/June or now?

standardg60

Personally i would stick with laurocerasus over Portuguese given your location. After that it is personal choice, evergreen versus deciduous, wildlife benefits are pretty negligible imo.
The earlier you can plant the better in terms of the growing season, regular watering will be necessary either way.

Mango Joe

standardg60 wrote: »

Seeing as you wish to passive aggressively target me with your first post in this thread i'll put you back in your box.
From a horticultural perspective what you're recommending is nonsense. Pruning of any plant after it's started into growth forces it to expend energy replacing the growth it would have instead used for flowering and root development. Pruning plants later in the growing season, ie. June/July, is only done by humans who want to encourage more flowering in early season flowering plants. It is not in the actual plant's best interests, which would rather be left alone.
Formative pruning, if necessary, should be done before the plant has broken into new growth, thereby ensuring that all available energy is put into the growth where you want it to be.
I am not here to make friends, i post to share my 28 years of horticultural experience so that others may gain knowledge and foremost pleasure from gardening. That is my only concern, and if i step on some toes along the way so be it.

Ps. your second post i agree with!

Here you are, again, condescending to people and as you have stated (without irony!) "putting people back in their boxes" !!!

It's so odd on reading all of the above that despite not following the approach you've been extensively lecturing on (and of course you're entitled to your own particular opinion no matter what anyone says) my plants all absolutely thrived and have never looked back.

I'm shocked that people seem to tolerate your attitude on here - I'm not seeing any evidence of 28 years of Horticultural expertise being gladly shared with the next generation of keen Gardeners - I'm seeing someone who has no idea of how to pleasantly relate to people and make a forum like this a nice and worthwhile place to pass through.

I'd honestly prefer to watch the entirety of my garden slowly wilt, curl up and die than suffer from the advice of an "Expert" Horticulturist with that attitude - and in your own words, I've no problem stepping on your toes to let you know this.

OP one other bit of advice that I didn't see mentioned on this thread that I found to be really helpful for getting a new hedge to grow really quickly was to lay a good quality soaker hose along its length for any dry periods that might come up.

I used two with a "Y" connector in the middle to cover the whole lot and it really works very well and it far preferable to watering for hours on end through our inevitable long, hot Summer.

Avoid the cheap plastic ones that are noisy and uneven - A good quality rubber one will instead ooze water slowly over long periods which works very nicely.

henke

Thanks everyone for the help. I will try to check with local garden centres to see what they have. I hope Novita etc aren't that hard to come by, and get them planted as soon as.

henke

Pulled up one there. Came up easily enough with a small bit of force. Probably doesn't other much further insight on the failure, other than can see the soil is probably not the best. Hopefully it will take Laure ok.

macraignil

henke wrote: »

Pulled up one there. Came up easily enough with a small bit of force. Probably doesn't other much further insight on the failure, other than can see the soil is probably not the best. Hopefully it will take Laure ok.

Looks to me like there are way more small roots close to the stem in an area that is probably matched by the shape of the pot they grew in than I would expect from a plant with that sized stem. Would not be surprised if it was that they were pot bound when they were planted. If it was a healthy shrub I would expect much bigger roots close to the stem and more of the small roots further away letting the plant utilize more soil for its growth. Can't see anything in the photos that indicates the soil has something wrong with it.

henke

Could well be. Rang one garden centre said any sort of hedging is impossible come by due to Covid with more than usual sold last year. Will try another tomorrow whether it's true it's hard to get or not I'm not sure.

standardg60

henke wrote: »

Pulled up one there. Came up easily enough with a small bit of force. Probably doesn't other much further insight on the failure, other than can see the soil is probably not the best. Hopefully it will take Laure ok.

Yes for whatever reason that's certainly not four years worth of normal root development. Soil looks fine to me too.

What part of the country are you in OP? I could check with a couple of nurseries i know for stock.