Job Share and AP1 post

pandoraj09

I'm intending to job share next year. I'm pretty sure my BOM won't allow me hold on to my post for the job share period. Everything now is about the needs of the students and I have heard it said that a job sharing teacher couldn't perform the duties of a year head as they're not there for the full day. To be honest I'd be happy to forfeit the post for the job share period. Its way too much hassle and stress and I could thankfully manage fine without the 330 or so extra in the pay packet every month. My question is whether the 27 years I've held the post would be reflected in the amount I get for my pension or will relinquishing the post for 2/3 years before I retire do long term financial damage to me? As I said, I can do without the money every month during the job share period. I've emailed one of the Public Service Pensions people but thought that maybe some of the more mathematically minded on here might know. Many thanks for any help and advice.

mtoutlemonde

pandoraj09 wrote: »

I'm intending to job share next year. I'm pretty sure my BOM won't allow me hold on to my post for the job share period. Everything now is about the needs of the students and I have heard it said that a job sharing teacher couldn't perform the duties of a year head as they're not there for the full day. To be honest I'd be happy to forfeit the post for the job share period. Its way too much hassle and stress and I could thankfully manage fine without the 330 or so extra in the pay packet every month. My question is whether the 27 years I've held the post would be reflected in the amount I get for my pension or will relinquishing the post for 2/3 years before I retire do long term financial damage to me? As I said, I can do without the money every month during the job share period. I've emailed one of the Public Service Pensions people but thought that maybe some of the more mathematically minded on here might know. Many thanks for any help and advice.

I'm working with a colleague who has AP1 and job sharing. I think ring the union for advice. You might even have more time for your duties if you were on a half day - you'll be down enough with jobshare. That probably doesn't help only to say it is possible.

Icsics

My colleagues have job shared with AP1s, never an issue. If the BOM grant the job share you will hold your AP1. You won’t be able to forfeit your post, unless you resign it & as you’re so close to retirement you definitely shouldn’t do that!

RealJohn

I don’t think it’s very fair to keep your post and only work part-time, but you’re entitled to do so, as far as I know. The BOM don’t have to approve your job share, but I don’t think they can tell you that they’ll only approve it if you give up your post.

I have a colleague on job share who has kept her AP1. It’s very frustrating when you need her for anything because basically, she’s in class the whole time she’s in the building, but not in the building more than half of the time, which isn’t ideal when she’s a year head.
I appreciate you have to look after yourself first but I hope you’ll think about how it might affect your colleagues too.

dory

Lots of AP1s in our school job share. It has never even been mentioned as an issue. Get onto your union asap if anyone tried to take it off you!

pandoraj09

Thanks to all who replied! The BOM have approved my job share thank God and I'm holding on to my post. Yes, I appreciate what one poster said above, about thinking how my not being in the building as much as I was might affect others. I've told the Principal I'm open to any post that fits my skillset.

Treppen

In terms of AP1/year head I think the school is skating on thin ice with a year head only around half the time. Just my opinion but it's not good if you're head of a year group with potentially very volatile situations (students self harm, suicidal tendencies, other disorders etc.). There were a few crisis situations in our school (as there are in every school) where the first person called on in the moment is the yearhead because they knew exactly the background with student/family etc.

The school support team are usually briefed and the guidance /DP/ Principal can always be relied to fall back on, but a yearhead should be there full time.
There was a period when a yearhead was out and his post was vacant for a long period, NEPS strongly advised the school to fill it ASAP in case anything happened to a particular student.

Perhaps go AP2 and share yearhead and other duties with another AP2 ... On the understanding that you'll go back and reinterview for AP1 in the future... wink wink etc.

I know schools allow it, but in the unlikely event anything goes wrong questions will be asked.

I suppose one good thing about AP1s is that duties can be reassigned every year.

Grueller

Treppen wrote: »

Perhaps go AP2 and share yearhead and other duties with another AP2 ... On the understandins that you'll go back and reinterview for AP1 in the future... wink wink etc.

Do not take this advice. A verbal under the table deal with a principal that may retire/move schools/suffer illness etc?
Hold onto your AP1. You earned it so let the principal have the headache of assigning duties that fit. As for a particularly serious incident, the principal should be the lead person anyway.

am_zarathustra

Grueller wrote: »

Do not take this advice. A verbal under the table deal with a principal that may retire/move schools/suffer illness etc?
Hold onto your AP1. You earned it so let the principal have the headache of assigning duties that fit. As for a particularly serious incident, the principal should be the lead person anyway.

Agreed, as per critical incidence procedures it would only be the AP1 if both the DLP and DDLP (principal and deputy) were not present and the person was deputised. Most YH have large teaching hours making up the bulk of their time, and AP1 is at best 10-20% of your time given it's relationship to hours and pay. If you are dealing with issues like this on a frequent basis you should be talking to the DP and P about the scoping of your role in the school and what your responsibilities are.

Also there are plenty of YH doing sweet FA in the building in many schools, if your engaged and on the ball I'd imagine most staff wouldn't have a problem. To be honest, if I went to half hours I'd have more time for the YH part, inevitably you'll end up with a 2nd and 5th period or something so you'll have time in between. Don't feel guilty at all if your doing your job and enjoy having a bit more head space

mtoutlemonde

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Agreed, as per critical incidence procedures it would only be the AP1 if both the DLP and DDLP (principal and deputy) were not present and the person was deputised. Most YH have large teaching hours making up the bulk of their time, and AP1 is at best 10-20% of your time given it's relationship to hours and pay. If you are dealing with issues like this on a frequent basis you should be talking to the DP and P about the scoping of your role in the school and what your responsibilities are.

Also there are plenty of YH doing sweet FA in the building in many schools, if your engaged and on the ball I'd imagine most staff wouldn't have a problem. To be honest, if I went to half hours I'd have more time for the YH part, inevitably you'll end up with a 2nd and 5th period or something so you'll have time in between. Don't feel guilty at all if your doing your job and enjoy having a bit more head space

Good advice here and previous poster. As I posted earlier, It would be mad to give up an AP1 - you've worked hard for it and deserve to keep it. Duties have to be examined every two years now. AP1 is around 6 hours per week, AP2 is 3.

Treppen

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Agreed, as per critical incidence procedures it would only be the AP1 if both the DLP and DDLP (principal and deputy) were not present and the person was deputised. Most YH have large teaching hours making up the bulk of their time, and AP1 is at best 10-20% of your time given it's relationship to hours and pay. If you are dealing with issues like this on a frequent basis you should be talking to the DP and P about the scoping of your role in the school and what your responsibilities are.

Also there are plenty of YH doing sweet FA in the building in many schools, if your engaged and on the ball I'd imagine most staff wouldn't have a problem. To be honest, if I went to half hours I'd have more time for the YH part, inevitably you'll end up with a 2nd and 5th period or something so you'll have time in between. Don't feel guilty at all if your doing your job and enjoy having a bit more head space

Just saying what we were told by NEPS and they'd be fairly close to legal obligations. They said to get a year head in place ASAP. Sure, the responsibility falls to principal, but the issue was not to let it come to that or expect the principal/dp to take on the role of yearhead for long term... Might be fine in smaller schools though.

If I had a vulnerable child in school or transitioning back to school and the year head told me they'd only be in 2-3 days a week but the deputy or principal would be around the other days, I don't know if I'd be happy for it to not fall through the cracks.

Grand if an AP1 is job share spread over a timetable and they're in every day, but if it were a jobshare for 2-3 days a week then can you still fulfill your duty of care!

We've had temp acting yearheads from Career Guidance/Principal/TY Coordinator for a full year before when the post remained unfilled, in my opinion they couldn't give the time needed.

We're trialling 2 AP2s sharing yearhead role this year and it's working fine. That's just my view on it, if other schools can get away with it then best of luck to them and fingers crossed.

pandoraj09

We're a Le Chéile school and they have their job sharers in 5 days a week unfortunately. I've my meeting with the Principal tomorrow to decide my duties for the next 2 years. I really don't care what he gives me as long as it's within my skillset. TBH, at the moment, I have 8 classes on 2 days of the week and I barely get to the bathroom let alone do YH stuff. I normally end up doing stuff at home so I'm not behind the following day.

am_zarathustra

pandoraj09 wrote: »

We're a Le Chéile school and they have their job sharers in 5 days a week unfortunately. I've my meeting with the Principal tomorrow to decide my duties for the next 2 years. I really don't care what he gives me as long as it's within my skillset. TBH, at the moment, I have 8 classes on 2 days of the week and I barely get to the bathroom let alone do YH stuff. I normally end up doing stuff at home so I'm not behind the following day.

I've 4 exam classes, my YH work, unless very pressing, is done before or after school or at home or at lunchtime. If your in 5 days a week I've no doubt you'll end up doing a better job! Good you got it sorted

@Treppen NEPS often have a fairly loose understanding of the actual teaching aspect of schools and expect everyone to be spending hours on non academic persuits on the regular. Not having a YH at all is different from one who might get to leave a bit early some days. An AP1 is a small amount of anyone's time, if massive issues are caused by one person with about 8-10 hours a week to give to the job being out then the system in place is certainly not robust enough. Being without a YH for a year would be an issue certainly but given acting positions kick in after 80 days I can't see why this would be the case.

pandoraj09

I had my meeting. I'm not a year head next year. I'm health and safety, wellbeing and academic attainment monitor, a lot of which can be done at home. I'm actually glad I'm not a year head. Not sure how I'll deal with the 3 new jobs but sure I'll manage...

mtoutlemonde

pandoraj09 wrote: »

I had my meeting. I'm not a year head next year. I'm health and safety, wellbeing and academic attainment monitor, a lot of which can be done at home. I'm actually glad I'm not a year head. Not sure how I'll deal with the 3 new jobs but sure I'll manage...

That's a great title Glad it went well.

Treppen

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I've 4 exam classes, my YH work, unless very pressing, is done before or after school or at home or at lunchtime. If your in 5 days a week I've no doubt you'll end up doing a better job! Good you got it sorted

@Treppen NEPS often have a fairly loose understanding of the actual teaching aspect of schools and expect everyone to be spending hours on non academic persuits on the regular. Not having a YH at all is different from one who might get to leave a bit early some days. An AP1 is a small amount of anyone's time, if massive issues are caused by one person with about 8-10 hours a week to give to the job being out then the system in place is certainly not robust enough. Being without a YH for a year would be an issue certainly but given acting positions kick in after 80 days I can't see why this would be the case.

Totally agree , I just meant it in terms of job share being in half the week.