Stephen Donnelly

Furze99

roosh wrote: »

How was it kite flying?

This was all a government PR stunt designed to whip up the media. The focus was to take the heat off the debate about people in their sixties being the only cohort to get the AZ vaccine which has been the subject of concern in many countries. Then the threats by Varadkar & Coveney to put people who wouldn't comply, to the back of the queue. That was a story gathering legs and potentially damaging. So they dumped this 18-30 idea out to get everyone excited and kill the other debate. We are all constantly being manipulated, for good or ill, by the HSE and government as regards this issue.

Quin_Dub

roosh wrote: »

How was it kite flying? The idea was proposed back in December in the National Vaccination Strategy document.

Have you seen a transcript of the interview to see what question he was asked to give that response?

How has the story changed hour to hour?

I wasn't speaking about this specific story , but we've had repeated instances where one Government rep says one thing and then shortly afterwards another rep says something slightly different.

In terms of Donnelly and the interview - I couldn't care less what question he was asked - If a decision hadn't been confirmed then the answer is "I have no updates /information on that" not "Well we might make this change , or we might not but we'll have a chat about it" or whatever. Don't give oxygen to this stuff.

The point is that bringing up potential changes to the vaccine plan before they have been fully vetted and agreed - whether prompted or unprompted is a PR/Communications failure.

What is needed here and has always been needed is clear, concise and consistent messaging - They have generally failed in that regard.

I think that they have been doing a pretty decent job in terms of the actual work of getting the vaccinations done, given the supply issues and safety delays etc. Our % completion rates etc. measure up pretty well within the rest of the EU.

However , they've done a pretty poor job of managing the messaging around it , making life much more difficult for themselves as a result.

roosh

Furze99 wrote: »

This was all a government PR stunt designed to whip up the media. The focus was to take the heat off the debate about people in their sixties being the only cohort to get the AZ vaccine which has been the subject of concern in many countries. Then the threats by Varadkar & Coveney to put people who wouldn't comply, to the back of the queue. That was a story gathering legs and potentially damaging. So they dumped this 18-30 idea out to get everyone excited and kill the other debate. We are all constantly being manipulated, for good or ill, by the HSE and government as regards this issue.

So it's not really an issue of Donnelly's competence then?

roosh

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I wasn't speaking about this specific story , but we've had repeated instances where one Government rep says one thing and then shortly afterwards another rep says something slightly different.

Tbh, I haven't really been following the news for months. I just happened to hear something about this furore and wanted to look into it. What are those other instances?

Quin_Dub wrote: »

In terms of Donnelly and the interview - I couldn't care less what question he was asked - If a decision hadn't been confirmed then the answer is "I have no updates /information on that" not "Well we might make this change , or we might not but we'll have a chat about it" or whatever. Don't give oxygen to this stuff.

The point is that bringing up potential changes to the vaccine plan before they have been fully vetted and agreed - whether prompted or unprompted is a PR/Communications failure.

He may have been asked a question to which he has responded openly and honestly. Personally, I would prefer that to the non-answers politicians usually give.

The PR disaster appears to be entirely manufactured by the media, as far as I can see. And incidents like this is the reason politicians give non-answers in interviews bcos what they say is selectively quoted with little or no context given.

If the Irish Times article had mentioned that what Donnelly had said was suggested in the National Vaccination Strategy back in December, then it would be a complete non-story.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

What is needed here and has always been needed is clear, concise and consistent messaging - They have generally failed in that regard.

How do you have clear, concise, and consistent messaging around a fluid, complex, and dynamic situation? It was easy when all we had to do was "stay at home and wash your hands" but now everyone is clamouring for special treatment when it comes to vaccines and re-opening.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think that they have been doing a pretty decent job in terms of the actual work of getting the vaccinations done, given the supply issues and safety delays etc. Our % completion rates etc. measure up pretty well within the rest of the EU.

However , they've done a pretty poor job of managing the messaging around it , making life much more difficult for themselves as a result.

It's probably bcos I haven't been following it closely enough but how has their messaging been poor?

I know they said they were going to vaccinate teachers first and changed that, but to me that's just a case of following the medical advice. Determining the best vaccine rollout strategy is a fluid situation. If the evidence suggests it should be changed, then we shouldn't stick to the old plan just bcos people don't like change.

There was probably an element of telling the teachers what they wanted to hear, in order to get them back into classrooms also.

Have there been other examples?

tommybrees

L1011 wrote: »

What count you're elected on is utterly irrelevant.

Nobody ever made an issue of it before SF forgot to run enough candidates and they will desperately regret doing so when SF do run enough and get people elected on later counts next time out.

It absolutely is irrelevant.
Your the 14th choice in your area. Basically elected because some people just tick all the boxes.
14th best according to his constitute and has been given the most power of anybody in this history of this country. Think about it.

Quin_Dub

tommybrees wrote: »

It absolutely is irrelevant.
Your the 14th choice in your area. Basically elected because some people just tick all the boxes.
14th best according to his constitute and has been given the most power of anybody in this history of this country. Think about it.

That's just not how voting works at all.

At worst he was 3rd (or 4th, can't remember how many seats in his constituency) choice.

Very few seats are filled on the 1st count in Ireland and a significant proportion of them would be filled after 8+ counts given how the system works.

L1011

tommybrees wrote: »

It absolutely is irrelevant.
Your the 14th choice in your area. Basically elected because some people just tick all the boxes.
14th best according to his constitute and has been given the most power of anybody in this history of this country. Think about it.

Your first line agrees with me (I think you meant relevant); and the rest of your post shows you know absolutely nothing about how STV works.

No constituency has 14 seats, no '14th choice' gets elected.

However, the 9th elected in a 9 seat council ward is as legitimately elected as the first; and indeed if they're in a party their party may have significantly more support in that area than a party with one candidate elected earlier.

Donnelly was fifth on the first count, in a five seat constituency. He ended up with the fourth most votes. The person in 14th, the PBP candidate, went out on the 8th count; with the first five counts being used to distribute SFs surplus and eliminate people with tiny numbers of votes.

If SF ran two candidates in Wicklow in 2020 and cleanly managed the split, Simon Harris would probably have been the first elected after 10+ counts

blackwhite

tommybrees wrote: »

It absolutely is irrelevant.
Your the 14th choice in your area. Basically elected because some people just tick all the boxes.
14th best according to his constitute and has been given the most power of anybody in this history of this country. Think about it.

It's quite the indictment of our education system that someone can be entitled to a vote yet have such a ridiculously poor understanding of the voting system.

hiptobesquare

https://freepress.ie/2021/04/stephendonnelly/

Accusations of conservatism or right leaning aside, some very fair comparisons here between Donnelly & Buttigieg). And alot more besides. Donnelly seems to have a number of different stories about how and why he got into politics for example. And in one video he says mckinsey paid for harvard, in another he says he nearly bankrupted his wife and family for studying there. Plus, McKinsey would never take someone back to put them through harvard for just one year in return...alot of very unusual stuff here that can't be waved away

"Despite having no work experience in Health Stephen Donnelly became Ireland’s Health Minister in June of 2020, sponsored by the Irish Prime Minister Micheál Martin. Senior ministries in Ireland are often run by unqualified suits on behalf of our civil-service swamp. Ireland’s scandal-ridden health department is no different, having been stewarded by a long succession of highly-networked incompetents installed as departmental figureheads for decades.

Even so, Stephen Donnelly’s fast-tracked appointment managed to stand out after his unusual first eight years in politics. At the time Ireland was supposedly in the middle of the most serious health crisis to hit the country since the genocidal potato famine of the 1840’s. Better political options with useful Health Department knowledge were definitely available to Martin – yet for some reason he decided to give Stephen Donnelly the nod.

Donnelly had proven himself to have no moral compass by joining Fianna Fail in 2017. Up to that point he had spent his entire political career telling the Irish media how utterly corrupt and irredeemable Fianna Fail were. There was understandable outrage throughout Fianna Fail at Donnelly’s appointment, awarded at the expense of long-serving and capable politicians like party-loyalist Darragh Calleary. Donnelly was awarded his most essential of positions despite his only real-world experience coming from two stints as a Management consultant at McKinsey – arguably the most scandal-ridden company in modern history."

PhilOssophy

blackwhite wrote: »

It's quite the indictment of our education system that someone can be entitled to a vote yet have such a ridiculously poor understanding of the voting system.

Democracy is dangerous in the wrong hands!

PhilOssophy

Re Stephen Donnelly, people just love to be outraged about things.
The worst thing you do in Ireland as a politician is ask "could we do something better" because Irish people just don't like that sort of scenario investigation.
Best to just give the chumps what they want and be quiet.

hiptobesquare

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Re Stephen Donnelly, people just love to be outraged about things.
The worst thing you do in Ireland as a politician is ask "could we do something better" because Irish people just don't like that sort of scenario investigation.
Best to just give the chumps what they want and be quiet.

He doesnt do anything better though. He was known for not attennding most finance committee meetings. And why was he made health minister in what is apparently the most dangerous pandemic ever ( we are told) despite zero experience? Bizarre

PhilOssophy

hiptobesquare wrote: »

He doesnt do anything better though. He was known for not attennding most finance committee meetings. And why was he made health minister in what is apparently the most dangerous pandemic ever ( we are told) despite zero experience? Bizarre

How did the last medical professionals get on as Minister for health?
It is a disastrous portfolio and no matter who is minister, it will always be so as long as the union stranglehold is there.

screamer

The health portfolio is a poison chalice and always has been. Therefore, you give it to someone you see as most expendable or your biggest rival politically speaking.
I do think though, that Harris was better as a figure head for the health portfolio than Donnelly, and being honest, there’s so much crap that any incoming minister inherits, the person who will really be able to reform health is one who has no vested interest in being re-elected, so they can do the heavy work that’s badly needed to reform that area. Unfortunately so far, it’s just career politician after career politician and no change has been the predictable outcome.

cute geoge

One thing that stands to donnelly in my opinion is he stuck to his guns on the hotel quarantine issue it is a couple of weeks now since we have had the high court challanges to it so it looks like he has done a mighty good job on that .In hindsight if simon harris had brought in the hotel quarantine march 2020 we would have being in a great place in regard covid but harris done a good job otherwise

PhilOssophy

screamer wrote: »

The health portfolio is a poison chalice and always has been. Therefore, you give it to someone you see as most expendable or your biggest rival politically speaking.
I do think though, that Harris was better as a figure head for the health portfolio than Donnelly, and being honest, there’s so much crap that any incoming minister inherits, the person who will really be able to reform health is one who has no vested interest in being re-elected, so they can do the heavy work that’s badly needed to reform that area. Unfortunately so far, it’s just career politician after career politician and no change has been the predictable outcome.

And unfortunately it is probably a 10+ year mission, rather than a 3-4 year one.

breezy1985

Any time this thread pops up I assume he has switched party again

jimmycrackcorm

cute geoge wrote:

One thing that stands to donnelly in my opinion is he stuck to his guns on the hotel quarantine issue it is a couple of weeks now since we have had the high court challanges to it so it looks like he has done a mighty good job on that .In hindsight if simon harris had brought in the hotel quarantine march 2020 we would have being in a great place in regard covid but harris done a good job otherwise

The mandatory hotel quarantine was a ridiculous populist idea.

Compare that in traveling you have to have A negative test and religiously wear a mask to the scenes we saw in stephens green at the weekend.

hiptobesquare

cute geoge wrote: »

One thing that stands to donnelly in my opinion is he stuck to his guns on the hotel quarantine issue it is a couple of weeks now since we have had the high court challanges to it so it looks like he has done a mighty good job on that .In hindsight if simon harris had brought in the hotel quarantine march 2020 we would have being in a great place in regard covid but harris done a good job otherwise

how can anyone say harris has done a good job on anything after the organised wholesale robbery of the childrens hospital. It literally couldn't be any more obvious that it was robbery

hiptobesquare

SNIP. Please stop posting the same link repeatedly.

Finty Lemon

Donnelly is a brain but I always think he comes across as book smart while lacking the scars of the real world.
People don't like that, so he starts from behind the line on every issue.

L1011

Donnelly is presumably showing how he was such a key consultant at McKinsey, being able to charge for client days that didn't even exist - namely the 31st of June.

https://laois-nationalist.ie/2021/04/28/donnelly-says-ireland-on-track-to-vaccinate-80-of-population-by-end-of-june/

Easy enough mistake to make but when you're becoming known for odd statements - trampolines etc - it doesn't help.

EddieN75

L1011 wrote: »

Donnelly is presumably showing how he was such a key consultant at McKinsey, being able to charge for client days that didn't even exist - namely the 31st of June.

https://laois-nationalist.ie/2021/04/28/donnelly-says-ireland-on-track-to-vaccinate-80-of-population-by-end-of-june/

Easy enough mistake to make but when you're becoming known for odd statements - trampolines etc - it doesn't help.

The minister for health before him , minister Harris spoke about the previous 18 Corona viruses.

L1011

EddieN75 wrote: »

The minister for health before him , minister Harris spoke about the previous 18 Corona viruses.

He's not alone in tripping up; he just does it a lot.

hotmail.com

Donnelly doesn't help himself by coming across as completely unembarrasssed by his gaffes and blunders.

expectationlost

cute geoge wrote: »

One thing that stands to donnelly in my opinion is he stuck to his guns on the hotel quarantine issue it is a couple of weeks now since we have had the high court challanges to it so it looks like he has done a mighty good job on that .In hindsight if simon harris had brought in the hotel quarantine march 2020 we would have being in a great place in regard covid but harris done a good job otherwise

Donnelly didn't start MHQ for over half a year since he was advised to https://assets.gov.ie/74472/703f767798cc4172a8b115df05ae5651.pdf