POI for the Coroners Society of Ireland, Nphet’s figures for deaths may be innacurate

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Doctor is wrong

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/school-and-covid-19/when-you-should-keep-your-child-home.html

How do you make out the doctor is wrong based on that line she meets none of those criteria.

monkeybutter

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd argue the test that can tell an active infection is the proper one.
Doctor should be enough once they say it's not required.

who are you arguing against, you have today and the weekend to sort a test you know doctors use tests all the time

DessieJames

PintOfView wrote: »

The fact that you are talking about digital vaccine passports makes me think you are looking at conspiracy web sites?
What do you see as the issues with vaccine certs, paper or digital?

dont you pro government shills get tired of labelling people as conspiracy theorists becaise we dont believe the lies FFG come out with.

If vaccine passports become reality this will in turn cause major major conflict , you cant discriminate against someone who decides not to get a vaccine, for the record i probably will get the vaccine so sorry to burst your bubble about thinking im some conspiracy theorist.

monkeybutter

DessieJames wrote: »

dont you pro government shills get tired of labelling people as conspiracy theorists becaise we dont believe the lies FFG come out with.

If vaccine passports become reality this will in turn cause major major conflict , you cant discriminate against someone who decides not to get a vaccine, for the record i probably will get the vaccine so sorry to burst your bubble about thinking im some conspiracy theorist.

when people take the line as the conspiracy theorists then they get lumped in with them


even if they will ... probably... maybe take vaccine, maybe

drunkmonkey

monkeybutter wrote: »

who are you arguing against, you have today and the weekend to sort a test you know doctors use tests all the time

A test for what? The doctor says no test required they're not sending her for one.
The nub of it is if a test is required for a snotty nose now we'll then it'll be required for the next 6 or 7 she gets between now and this time next year, I'm holding firm as they say.

DessieJames

monkeybutter wrote: »

when people take the line as the conspiracy theorists then they get lumped in with them


even if they will ... probably... maybe take vaccine, maybe

It's embararssing and cringeworthy at this stage, mainstream media and pro government shills labelling anyone who doensnt believe what NPHET/FFG are doing as a conspiracy theorist, change the record lads your making a fool of yourself.

drunkmonkey

Ivors torn apart the RTE prime time presentation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjAyD8LoyMo

karlitob

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Doctor is wrong

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/school-and-covid-19/when-you-should-keep-your-child-home.html

No - you’re wrong.

The only valid criteria in that list - which I have presumed from the info that poster gave is the following.

any other common symptoms of COVID-19 - a new cough, loss or changed sense of taste or smell, shortness of breath or an existing breathing condition that has recently become worse

If a doctor has assessed the patient - and has diagnosed another disease or none at all - then that is their clinical opinion. Naturally the doctor will consider the above signs and symptoms that are quoted here and will consider whether a Covid test is worthwhile - like all tests. The doctor didn’t send the patient for a chest x day or bloods either.

Presumably - you’re not a doctor. And if you were, you’re not the doctor of this child. You’re wrong.

karlitob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd argue the test that can tell an active infection is the proper one.
Doctor should be enough once they say it's not required.

The last line is the valid point.
As for the first line - all tests have sensitive values, specificity values, positive predictive values, negative predictive values, internal consistency measures and reliability measure like intra and inter. The point being a test is only as good as those measures. At the very least a test should identity if you have the thing it’s testing - sensitivity - a true positive. And low false positives.

I’m not sure the tests that are being suggested have sufficient sensitivity. In other words you can be positive and be told you’re negative.

Specificity is how good the test is at telling you that you don’t have the disease - a true negative - you tested negative and don’t have it. Obviously important also. “The test said you don’t have cancer.” “Phew - that’s a relief”. “Sorry I didn’t finish my sentence - it’s a false negative - you have cancer”.

The problem is the crossover. If you got a negative test - you don’t know if it’s a false positive or a true negative. All you can do is trust it based on the specificity score and sensitivity score.

Basically the tests that others are advocating here are not psychometrically sound (their ****e) and if the crèche accepts a negative result then they might as well accept the result of the flick of a coin. It’s meaningless. If you daughter has Covid - she could still give it to everyone. However, if you showed up with your daughter and said the doc cleared you. Well that would give me much more assurance that she didn’t have it. What with the doctor being trained for years and the test being ****

drunkmonkey

That's it nothing to say the test gives a correct result and it absolutely doesn't tell you if the person is contagious. The more I listen to Kary Mullis the more I see abuse of his invention just after his death. He'd be doing cartwheels watching the likes of Fauci who he's called out before.

When buying the antigen kits I was told they pick up the active virus, Colm Henry confirmed the pcr can pick up trace virus from a previous infection and Cillian de Gascun has stated the amount of pcr cycles they're doing which is way over the recommended guidelines.

odyssey06

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's it nothing to say the test gives a correct result and it absolutely doesn't tell you if the person is contagious. The more I listen to Kary Mullis the more I see abuse of his invention just after his death. He'd be doing cartwheels watching the likes of Fauci who he's called out before.
When buying the antigen kits I was told they pick up the active virus, Colm Henry confirmed the pcr can pick up trace virus from a previous infection and Cillian de Gascun has stated the amount of pcr cycles they're doing which is way over the recommended guidelines.

Ireland's use of PCR tests is within the guidelines set for those tests.

Ireland is not conducting some solo run on PCR cycles in order to invent cases.
https://twitter.com/cilliandegascun/status/1305250887246458880?lang=en

This thread seems to have become a dumping ground for discredited ideas debunked and driven from the main threads.

The Oort Cloud

My father passed away on christmas after he fell from a ladder and hit his head hard and got concussion. He had a bleed on the brain but then he caught covid-19 in hospital, he passed away a few weeks later. On the death certificate it said... Cause of death, Covid-19. He died from a bleed on the brain that they couldn't stop not covid, but there you go.

funnydoggy

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

My father passed away on christmas after he fell from a ladder and hit his head hard and got concussion. He had a bleed on the brain but then he caught covid-19 in hospital, he passed away a few weeks later. On the death certificate it said... Cause of death, Covid-19. He died from a bleed on the brain that they couldn't stop not covid, but there you go.

My sincere condolences.

drunkmonkey

odyssey06 wrote: »

Ireland's use of PCR tests is within the guidelines set for those tests.

Ireland is not conducting some solo run on PCR cycles in order to invent cases.
https://twitter.com/cilliandegascun/status/1305250887246458880?lang=en

This thread seems to have become a dumping ground for discredited ideas debunked and driven from the main threads.

If they knew how many cycles to run to actually pick it up the live virus don't you think it would be set to that but no that's not what's happening the manufacturer doesn't even know what the cycles should be.
Some would say about 16 anything above that and the test is nonsense which it is.
Only infections that matter are the contagious ones anything else is bullcrap.

drunkmonkey

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

My father passed away on christmas after he fell from a ladder and hit his head hard and got concussion. He had a bleed on the brain but then he caught covid-19 in hospital, he passed away a few weeks later. On the death certificate it said... Cause of death, Covid-19. He died from a bleed on the brain that they couldn't stop not covid, but there you go.

Lost mine to a respiratory virus he picked up in the hospital which caused an untreatable phneumonia just before he was coming home, autopsy said heart attack natural causes, no mention of the virus, How times have changed. Sorry for your loss.

odyssey06

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If they knew how many cycles to run to actually pick it up the live virus don't you think it would be set to that but no that's not what's happening the manufacturer doesn't even know what the cycles should be.
Some would say about 16 anything above that and the test is nonsense which it is.
Only infections that matter are the contagious ones anything else is bullcrap.

It picks up infections. It is highly accurate in the role for which it is deployed.

If we had a perfect test to detect who was contagious we would be using it.
We don't.
Completely unrealistic expectations of what tests are capable of doing here.
Maybe you should be working in the labs and tell us what they are doing wrong to come up with this perfect test?
Or what sort of ethical trials they might conduct to establish with 100% certainty what levels of cycles matches up to being contagious?

Apparently it was De Gascun saying we were using PCR tests wrong, when challenged on that you now resort to weasel words such as "some would say".
Some might say indeed.

drunkmonkey

odyssey06 wrote: »

It picks up infections. It is highly accurate in the role for which it is deployed.

If we had a perfect test to detect who was contagious we would be using it.
We don't.
Completely unrealistic expectations of what tests are capable of doing here.
Maybe you should be working in the labs and tell us what they are doing wrong to come up with this perfect test?
Or what sort of ethical trials they might conduct to establish with 100% certainty what levels of cycles matches up to being contagious?

Apparently it was De Gascun saying we were using PCR tests wrong, when challenged on that you now resort to weasel words such as "some would say".
Some might say indeed.

Ah I know it picks up infections, I said it doesn't know if it's an active infection, good dodge of confirming that point.
I'm not trying to weasel out of anything that was you with waffles.

Flange/Flanders

Deleted User wrote: »

Doctor is wrong

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/school-and-covid-19/when-you-should-keep-your-child-home.html

Sorry, you're wrong. This is the algorithm for testing for covid in children
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/algorithms/COVID-19%20Assessment%20and%20testing%20pathway%20for%20children%203%20months%20to%2013th%20birthday.pdf

That doctor bases their clinical judgement on consultation with the parents, I wouldnt jump to conclusions based on scanty information from the internet.
That said, the advise is that people should isolate for 48 hours until after resolution of symptoms for non covid infections e.g. covid negative PCR.

Also, just to reassure the parent of this child, PCR testing on children isnt invasive, it's a saliva sample.

Someone also said that masks and social distancing dont work. I was talking to a consultant paediatrician a few weeks ago and he said the rates of bronchiolitis (a childhood respiratory infection caused by RSV virus) and cases of gastroenteritis fell off the cliff last winter.

Finally, Mr O'Connor will know well that ALL deaths in cases where people would have tested positive for covid are referred to the coroner so it's at his own organisation he should be looking!!

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How do you make out the doctor is wrong based on that line she meets none of those criteria.

other uncommon symptoms of COVID-19, such as sore throat or headaches

.

Flange/Flanders

Flange/Flanders wrote: »

Sorry, you're wrong. This is the algorithm for testing for covid in children
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/algorithms/COVID-19%20Assessment%20and%20testing%20pathway%20for%20children%203%20months%20to%2013th%20birthday.pdf

That doctor bases their clinical judgement on consultation with the parents, I wouldnt jump to conclusions based on scanty information from the internet.
That said, the advise is that people should isolate for 48 hours until after resolution of symptoms for non covid infections e.g. covid negative PCR.

Also, just to reassure the parent of this child, PCR testing on children isnt invasive, it's a saliva sample.

Someone also said that masks and social distancing dont work. I was talking to a consultant paediatrician a few weeks ago and he said the rates of bronchiolitis (a childhood respiratory infection caused by RSV virus) and cases of gastroenteritis fell off the cliff last winter.

Finally, Mr O'Connor will know well that ALL deaths in cases where people would have tested positive for covid are referred to the coroner so it's at his own organisation he should be looking!!

For testing only. They are still required to stay home for 48hours if they have uncommon symptoms

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ivors torn apart the RTE prime time presentation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjAyD8LoyMo

This has to be the funniest thing the grifter has posted. “I am going to arbitrarily exclude half the pandemic and include 5 months prior to the pandemic to measure excess deaths during the pandemic”. Anyone who falls for this must be as thick as pigsh*t

Flange/Flanders

Deleted User wrote: »

For testing only. They are still required to stay home for 48hours if they have uncommon symptoms

I know.
"Child must stay at home. Parent/carer must monitor child’s condition for 48
hours for deterioration or new symptoms."

PintOfView

DessieJames wrote: »

Right now you cant,but the truth about all of this will eventually comeout, it always does, half the deaths marked down as covid just to frightgen the public to death were elderly people who were dying anyway.

Last year i along with many others were called "conspiracy theorists" for suggesting that there would be a digital vaccine passport in 2021, NPHET were in favour of this, and guess what it's happening.

i could do and on and on

PintOfView wrote: »

The fact that you are talking about digital vaccine passports makes me think you are looking at conspiracy web sites?
What do you see as the issues with vaccine certs, paper or digital?

DessieJames wrote: »

dont you pro government shills get tired of labelling people as conspiracy theorists becaise we dont believe the lies FFG come out with.

If vaccine passports become reality this will in turn cause major major conflict ,
you cant discriminate against someone who decides not to get a vaccine,
for the record i probably will get the vaccine so sorry to burst your bubble about thinking im some conspiracy theorist.

I agree that the whole question of vaccine certs, or passports as you call them, won't be an easy one to solve.
However while the pandemic is still in progress, what do you see wrong with the following ...

People who can prove they've been vaccinated, or that they've had the virus already:
- don't need to quarantine when they arrive in another country.
- can attend concerts and matches, or other events where people are in close proximity.

How would this cause conflict?
What do you suggest instead (everyone quarantine, and noone goes to concerts & matches)?

Flange/Flanders

Deleted User wrote: »

This has to be the funniest thing the grifter has posted. “I am going to arbitrarily exclude half the pandemic and include 5 months prior to the pandemic to measure excess deaths during the pandemic”. Anyone who falls for this must be as thick as pigsh*t

He's an a$$hole, been debunked so many times on twitter but he still has eej1ts hanging on his every word.

Flange/Flanders

Flange/Flanders wrote: »

I know.
"Child must stay at home. Parent/carer must monitor child’s condition for 48
hours for deterioration or new symptoms."

Drunkmonkey originally posted that the doctor judged the child had just a snotty nose and no test required and could return to crèche. Crèche said they needed to wait 48 hours. DM said they should have taken the docs word. I said the doc was wrong.

Martina1991

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If they knew how many cycles to run to actually pick it up the live virus don't you think it would be set to that but no that's not what's happening the manufacturer doesn't even know what the cycles should be.
Some would say about 16 anything above that and the test is nonsense which it is.
Only infections that matter are the contagious ones anything else is bullcrap.

You're on yet another thread spreading false information about PCR tests.

The antigen tests you've wasted your money on are also highly unreliable.

They're made and intended to be used by trained professionals on symptomatic people suspected as having the virus. Their claims of high sensitivity and specificity are completely biased by only using symptomatic people and using trained professionals in controlled conditions to take the swabs and perform the test.
There is very little, poor evidence for the use of these tests by people self swabbing and performing the tests themselves. There is even less data about the utility of these tests on children.

Test or not, no child should be going to a creche with a head cold.
48hrs after symptoms and the child can return.
Spreading held colds around a creche just leads to more children being off sick.

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Drunkmonkey originally posted that the doctor judged the child had just a snotty nose and no test required and could return to crèche. Crèche said they needed to wait 48 hours. DM said they should have taken the docs word. I said the doc was wrong.

Not sure what I said but it's 48 from no symptoms. In my experience these things hang around for a week or two.
It's the PCR test is the issue, Doctor confirms not Covid no test required, creche insist on pcr test, they actually said different Doctors have different opinions hence they can only trust the pcr and they don't recognize antigen tests.

Martina1991

Martina1991 wrote: »

You're on yet another thread spreading false information about PCR tests.

The antigen tests you've wasted your money on are also highly unreliable.

They're made and intended to be used by trained professionals on symptomatic people suspected as having the virus. Their claims of high sensitivity and specificity are completely biased by only using symptomatic people and using trained professionals in controlled conditions to take the swabs and perform the test.
There is very little, poor evidence for the use of these tests by people self swabbing and performing the tests themselves. There is even less data about the utility of these tests on children.

Test or not, no child should be going to a creche with a head cold.
48hrs after symptoms and the child can return.
Spreading held colds around a creche just leads to more children being off sick.

The list of items where the poster is either spreading misinformation or outright wrong is long and varied

drunkmonkey

Martina1991 wrote: »

You're on yet another thread spreading false information about PCR tests.

It wasn't false information, it's very simple the pcr is picking up long gone viruses that was my point. There's nothing false about that statement.

Do you agree that fact is true?

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

The list of items where the poster is either spreading misinformation or outright wrong is long and varied

It's easy throw that out when you've nothing else, you've been called out a few times today and not by me from talking absolute manure.

Doctors don't know what they're doing, seriously take a look in the mirror before you call anyone else wrong.