Cyclists, insurance and road tax

Padre_Pio

Pinch Flat wrote: »

But dey don't pay road tax, Joe

Ah Jaysus Joe, tis terrible, just terrible, and dey don't even have a license! and dem out of de road and all, and what about me poor mudder! Sure she's too old to see dem! Should be banned Joe, sure what wud ya be at out on a bike wit de wedder in dis country.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

please show me which models


60% of cyclists will jump a red light : https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457518304676

multiple discussions conclude that they don't trigger red light cameras :
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1196959&i=20

what evidence have you that they do trigger red light cameras ?

anyone with a set of eyes would tell you that more than 12% of cyclists break red lights, I get it, you're a fanatic, but wouldn't it be better for you to accept the absolutely abysmal state of Dublin cycling and try make it better so that maybe motorists didn't hate them so much due to inconvenience.

The Luas red light camera picked up 12% of red light jumping was by cyclists. So they did trigger this particular red light camera, regardless of how strongly you feel about it.

They had so many drivers breaking red lights that Gardai couldn't keep up with processing offences so they switched the camera off.

So explain to me again why we should be diverting limited Garda resources to chase cyclists?

Hamsterchops

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Cyclists, insurance and road tax.

Insurance NO X
Road Tax NO X

Cycling ain't goin down that route thank you very much. Cycling is total freedom for everybody, irrespective of whether they can afford insurance & road tax. Cycling is free & will remain that way.

AndrewJRenko

NickNickleby wrote: »

Excuse me, but please explain how I can claim a motor tax 'holiday' by simply stating my car is off the road. If the tax was simply for owning the car, such a break would not exist as long as I own the car.

motor vehicles driven exclusively 'airside' in Dublin Airport are not required to have Motor Tax - as far as I know.

https://www.gov.ie/en/policy-information/1ba443-motor-taxvehicle-registration/#:~:text=Liability%20for%20motor%20tax%20arises,for%20a%2012%2Dmonth%20period.

From the above:
When must I pay motor tax?

Liability for motor tax arises when a vehicle is used in a public place/road.

Not all vehicles on the road pay tax. It's not a road tax.

Eric Cartman

Fighting Tao wrote: »

So you are saying the the Luas operator is making it up?

Also, when I was out for a cycle a few days ago, did I imagine the speed sign display an almighty speedy 21 kph for me?

yes, their methodology has to be flawed. Not a chance in hell are the figures that skewed, the only other explanation is that cyclists are only behaving in those numbers at luas junctions.

Joe4321

Jeasuuse Joe how do they expect me to cycle home after a full day's work, you would thing they would bring in a law that let's cyclists only work a couple of hours a day to avoid all the traffic, what do you thínk Joe

oisinog

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so they don't trigger sensor lights / cameras , but its ok that they break them anyway... sure.

So if I am out for a cycle at 6am with no traffic on the Road I should wait until a car comes and triggers it for me.

It took me 15mins sitting at a ligh one day to figure this out.

Joe4321

Andrew we are all waiting for your answer

Joe4321

Off for a quick spin now, I hope I don't get abuse from the motorist now,

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

please show me which models


60% of cyclists will jump a red light : https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457518304676

multiple discussions conclude that they don't trigger red light cameras :
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1196959&i=20

what evidence have you that they do trigger red light cameras ?

anyone with a set of eyes would tell you that more than 12% of cyclists break red lights, I get it, you're a fanatic, but wouldn't it be better for you to accept the absolutely abysmal state of Dublin cycling and try make it better so that maybe motorists didn't hate them so much due to inconvenience.

Do motorists hate all the other motorists that cause them inconvenience?

oisinog

Padre_Pio wrote: »

It's not practical!! Bicycles are not cars! No matter how much you want them to be.
Bicycles are bought, sold, and scrapped much more often than cars. Bicycles are disassembled and parts swapped out much more frequently than cars.

You can't apply the same rules to bicycles, it's just not practical.

It's not an ideology, it's just common sense, which this thread is devoid of.

A VIN for a bicycle, for fcuk sake :rolleyes:

Sure you already have a VIN of sorts on your bike, like most products built the frame will have a serial number.

And Guess what in the North you can get it registered for free to a database to help the police

Necro

Joe4321 wrote: »

Jeasuuse Joe how do they expect me to cycle home after a full day's work, you would thing they would bring in a law that let's cyclists only work a couple of hours a day to avoid all the traffic, what do you thínk Joe

Joe4321 wrote: »

Andrew we are all waiting for your answer

Joe4321 wrote: »

Off for a quick spin now, I hope I don't get abuse from the motorist now,

Threadbanned for continuous trolling of the thread

NickNickleby

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I agree with you. Although my point is that it's constantly happening BanditLuke in Stillorgan. Surely if it is constantly happening in the same locality, reporting it is likely to catch the culprits. I suspect that there was a huge exaggeration though.

Sorry Fighting Tao, my post certainly looked a bit smart ass, and I apologise for that. Perhaps Bandit was guilty of hyperbole (sorry BL:pac: ), but sure most of us go through life brushing off these incidents, despite the fact that sufficient reporting might lead to some action by the authorities.

BTW, I cannot be classed as a cyclist these days, and in fact when cycling to work I never considered myself a 'cyclist'. just someone who used a bike to get to work. I should probably put my helmet on now :D.

AndrewJRenko

oisinog wrote: »

Sure you already have a VIN of sorts on your bike, like most products built the frame will have a serial number.

And Guess what in the North you can get it registered for free to a database to help the police

You can register it with Gardai here too, at least in certain stations.

oisinog

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You can register it with Gardai here too, at least in certain stations.

You would think we could get our S*** together and have a full island database but that is a discussion for a different time

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yes, their methodology has to be flawed. Not a chance in hell are the figures that skewed, the only other explanation is that cyclists are only behaving in those numbers at luas junctions.

Did you think about the number of cyclists on the road vs the number of motorists on the road when you came to your conclusion?

Interesting approach though - whenever you don't like any quantitative data outcome, just say that the methodology is flawed.

NickNickleby

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Not all vehicles on the road pay tax. It's not a road tax.

Well now, that puts a slightly different complexion on it. However, my own point still stands , I can't drive my car on the road without paying Motor Tax. The fact that someone else gets an exemption doesn't change that fact.

I expect that the vehicles you refer to are probably state owned like Garda cars etc. Which makes sense, why would the government tax itself.

Necro

Joe4321 wrote: »

I see Andrew got the mod on to me

1 week forum ban applied for breaching your threadban - keep up the trolling and it'll be a permaban

km991148

Eric Cartman wrote: »

anyone with a set of eyes would tell you that more than 12% of cyclists break red lights, I get it, you're a fanatic, but wouldn't it be better for you to accept the absolutely abysmal state of Dublin cycling and try make it better so that maybe motorists didn't hate them so much due to inconvenience.

I actually think that if every person cycling did stop at every red light then motorists would be even more inconvenienced (It's why some countries allow right hand turns of reds (left in Ire), for example)

Probably still not as much as inconvenience they themselves cause by moving around in something that takes up a 4m x 2m footprint.

No numbers to back this up, but sure anyone with a set of eyes can see that anyway.

Captain Flaps

NickNickleby wrote: »

Excuse me, but please explain how I can claim a motor tax 'holiday' by simply stating my car is off the road. If the tax was simply for owning the car, such a break would not exist as long as I own the car.

motor vehicles driven exclusively 'airside' in Dublin Airport are not required to have Motor Tax - as far as I know.

https://www.gov.ie/en/policy-information/1ba443-motor-taxvehicle-registration/#:~:text=Liability%20for%20motor%20tax%20arises,for%20a%2012%2Dmonth%20period.

From the above:
When must I pay motor tax?

Liability for motor tax arises when a vehicle is used in a public place/road.

Nothing you've said negates what I said, there are exceptions and if they aren't clear then you should speak to whoever made them. Motor tax is related to your car, roads are paid for through general taxation. This isn't a matter of opinion. The tax is on emissions, and as your aren't emitting anything when the car is parked up for a long stretch, you don't pay.

Marcusm

oisinog wrote: »

So if I am out for a cycle at 6am with no traffic on the Road I should wait until a car comes and triggers it for me.

It took me 15mins sitting at a ligh one day to figure this out.

Jaysus, you should Have dismounted and walked it (lawfully) across long before 15 minutes.

shenanagans

If a cyclist hits someone whether they run a red light or a pedestrian just steps out in front of them can they sue?

As a cyclist this issue makes me nervous. Liveline discussed this last week. Is there a comeback for an injured party. Same argument could be ask....could injured cyclist sue a pedestrian.

In the case of running a red light any cyclist should be accountable imo. But the issue of insurance is perhaps not ridiculous.

At the moment with social distancing I find its constantly happening..... pedestrians stepping off the path into the road and in front of cyclists. I don't feel that someone should blame me if I hit them after they step out in front of me.

The whole tax thing is ridiculous. We should encourage cycling and aim to put cycling paths on all roads.

Pinch Flat

That's one of the reasons I have cycling insurance. In our claim happy culture here at least it offers some protection for someone trying to sue the ass off you.

shenanagans

Pinch Flat wrote: »

That's one of the reasons I have cycling insurance. In our claim happy culture here at least it offers some protection for someone trying to sue the ass off you.

Never knew it existed. How much is it?

micar

shenanagans wrote: »

If a cyclist hits someone whether they run a red light or a pedestrian just steps out in front of them can they sue?

As a cyclist this issue makes me nervous. Liveline discussed this last week. Is there a comeback for an injured party. Same argument could be ask....could injured cyclist sue a pedestrian.

In the case of running a red light any cyclist should be accountable imo. But the issue of insurance is perhaps not ridiculous.

At the moment with social distancing I find its constantly happening..... pedestrians stepping off the path into the road and in front of cyclists. I don't feel that someone should blame me if I hit them after they step out in front of me.

The whole tax thing is ridiculous. We should encourage cycling and aim to put cycling paths on all roads.

Who is suing who.

Did a course long time ago...one of the girls was cycling near Dame St...an American tourist stepped out onto the footpath....she pulled the brakes, front wheel locked and she thrown over the handlebar breaking both wrists.

No harm done to the tourist

A colleague at work cycling home had a girl on her mobile step out onto the cycle lane without looking, he swerved to avoid hitting her, came off the bike and broke his wrist

No harm done to the pedestrian

Zebra3

Would love to see a designated day when all cyclists who are also car owners commuted by car instead of bike.

Pinch Flat

shenanagans wrote: »

Never knew it existed. How much is it?

I get it through www.cyclingireland.ie - as a club cyclist ( leisure or racing) it's mandatory but I think you can take it out as an individual. Around €50 per annum.

shenanagans

micar wrote: »

Who is suing who.

Did a course long time ago...one of the girls was cycling near Dame St...an American tourist stepped out onto the footpath....she pulled the brakes, front wheel locked and she thrown over the handlebar breaking both wrists.

No harm done to the tourist

A colleague at work cycling home had a girl on her mobile step out onto the cycle lane without looking, he swerved to avoid hitting her, came off the bike and broke his wrist

No harm done to the pedestrian

Either could sue. I'd be nervous as cyclist that some pedestrian would walk in front of me and then expect me to pay for their injuries.

shenanagans

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I get it through www.cyclingireland.ie - as a club cyclist ( leisure or racing) it's mandatory but I think you can take it out as an individual. Around €50 per annum.

Good to know. I just do some casual cycling. Not a serious enthuasiat. Thanks

seamus

shenanagans wrote: »

Either could sue. I'd be nervous as cyclist that some pedestrian would walk in front of me and then expect me to pay for their injuries.

Cyclist will nearly always come off worse tbh.

Unless there's a very grievous error on the part of either, or someone seriously injured, any Garda will tell you both to just head off your separate ways and pay more attention next time.

I wouldn't be any more concerned about being sued than I am about being sued by knocking someone over while out for a run.