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Cyclists, insurance and road tax

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    #1412
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    This is the kind of ridiculous Lycra Libertarian attitude I was just talking about.

    "It's fine to cycle three abreast because if anyone asks, one of us is overtaking".

    Christ on a bike. This is not what the law is meant to cover and if you do this you're a dick.

    Threadbanned


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    #1413
    swarlb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    I was on the bike in jeans and a T-shirt the other day. I wonder if his hate applied to me.

    Check the fibre content, I'll hazard a guess there is a bit of stretchy stuff in there somewhere !


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    #1414
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,657 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think there's often a slightly vague use of the word 'danger' bandied about in these sort of threads. i would (and i don't know if this is correct) distinguish risk and danger. cycling is not very dangerous, but it can be risky, and driving can be dangerous but not as risky.

    i.e. cycling itself is not dangerous per se; it's exposed to dangers created by other factors. and i think the stats bear this out - per km travelled, being in a car is markedly safer than cycling; i.e. the factor which creates the danger suffers far less from it.


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    #1415
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    No you did not have to cross the white line. No one forced you. You choose to break the law and endanger the cyclists and anyone coming the opposite direction.

    Thank you for making my point for me, the problem as i see it is the amount of bicycles on mass are obstructing vehicle traffic which you just confirmed as being ok.
    You seem to think these groups of bicycle have no responsibility toward other road users which i am get the feeling is general opinion here...


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    #1416
    harmless
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭harmless


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    being in a car is markedly safer than cycling; i.e. the factor which creates the danger suffers far less from it.


    There are so many health issues due to weight and lack of exercise especially in Irish men who are prone to heart problems.
    Does this more than mitigate any additional risk of a bike over a car?

    I heard this a number of times but am unsure if it is true.

    You could also take the tax payers money angle on this. Cyclists are less likely to be a drain on the healthcare system.


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    #1417
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,657 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i drive around north county dublin quite a lot, and NCD is popular with cyclists. i don't ever recall having a problem with cyclists.


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    #1418
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    swarlb wrote: »
    Check the fibre content, I'll hazard a guess there is a bit of stretchy stuff in there somewhere !

    Hmm....they are in the wash, but I can say that they were very snug. Bloody covid KGs!!!


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    #1419
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Thank you for making my point for me, the problem as i see it is the amount of bicycles on mass are obstructing vehicle traffic which you just confirmed as being ok.
    You seem to think these groups of bicycle have no responsibility toward other road users which i am get the feeling is general opinion here...

    They are traffic too


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    #1420
    statto25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭statto25


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    Another gripe of mine - little or no bikes have air horns.

    How the heck are you supposed to warn people, let alone cars, that you're approaching?

    I was thinking of putting a Bluetooth speaker and mic on my bike. I reckon a loud roar of "come out ta fcuk" would get a padestrians attention better when they walk out in front of me. Likewise for the idiots who cut me up when overtaking.


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    #1421
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    This thread is quickly approaching the point where it might be easier for all
    Concerned to tax cyclists. Or ban cycling altogether.

    Maybe a tax on people who start these threads?


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    #1422
    MangleBadger
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Thank you for making my point for me, the problem as i see it is the amount of bicycles on mass are obstructing vehicle traffic which you just confirmed as being ok.
    You seem to think these groups of bicycle have no responsibility toward other road users which i am get the feeling is general opinion here...

    They are not obstructing traffic. They are traffic. They have just as much right to use the road as cars.


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    #1423
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i drive around north county dublin quite a lot, and NCD is popular with cyclists. i don't ever recall having a problem with cyclists.

    You'll find rational people generally don't. They have learned how to curb their own irritations for the good of all and pay more attention to the big picture around us - including long term health benefits, less congestion, and less emissions.

    NCD is a lovely part of the county to cycle around you're right.

    148 people killed on Irish roads last year according to the RSA. The majority killed by a car, with a declining percentage by truck, bus, or farm vehicle.

    https://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/RSA-Statistics/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/#:~:text=Of%20the%20148%20fatalities%2C%20there,(18)%20were%20particularly%20dangerous.

    None were killed by a bicycle. However 10 cyclists were killed by vehicular traffic.

    149 is almost 3 people killed by vehicles each week. The danger to cyclists on Irish roads is the motoring population, and specifically the private car driving population.


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    #1424
    oisinog
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭oisinog


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Thank you for making my point for me, the problem as i see it is the amount of bicycles on mass are obstructing vehicle traffic which you just confirmed as being ok.
    You seem to think these groups of bicycle have no responsibility toward other road users which i am get the feeling is general opinion here...

    If that was a Tractor would you have overtaken it. At the end of the day you overtook traffic, you performed the illegal and possibly dangerours overtake not the cyclists.


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    #1425
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    They are traffic too

    Yes i know they are traffic which i have no problem with.
    12 bikes take up at least as much road space as an Artic-truck, say travelling at about 25kmh, they take a bit of passing on a minor road.
    Thanks for your help as i think you may now get what i am talking of...


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    #1426
    sprite0
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭sprite0


    Im surprised that motorists in general and in particular those who have not choice but to drive don't actively encourage more people to take up cycling or at least give those who do cycle a bit of space/respect on the road. Approx 95000 daily cycle commuters in Dublin alone (2018 figures). Can you imagine the mayhem if every single one of these decided to switch to a car instead.


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    #1427
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Yes i know they are traffic which i have no problem with.
    12 bikes take up at least as much road space as an Artic-truck, say travelling at about 25kmh, they take a bit of passing on a minor road.
    Thanks for your help as i think you may now get what i am talking of...
    You are impatient. That is your problem, not theirs!


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    #1428
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mod:

    AndrewJRenko's threadban lifted after discussion


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    #1429
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    oisinog wrote: »
    If that was a Tractor would you have overtaken it. At the end of the day you overtook traffic, you performed the illegal and possibly dangerours overtake not the cyclists.

    That's a very bad example as the bikes deliberately take up the space instead of going to smaller groups when it is necessary.
    I would overtake the tractor if the situation was the same, i have no problem with people breaking the law, i do have a problem with people being dis-courteous towards other users...


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    #1430
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Yes i know they are traffic which i have no problem with.
    12 bikes take up at least as much road space as an Artic-truck, say travelling at about 25kmh, they take a bit of passing on a minor road.
    Thanks for your help as i think you may now get what i am talking of...

    How do you manage when you come across other slow drivers? You you come into boards and whinge about being held up and that their mode of transport should be taxed more/banned or whatever your participation in this thread is demanding of cyclists?


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    #1431
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    You are impatient. That is your problem, not theirs!

    Their problem is they have no manners...


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    #1432
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Their problem is they have no manners...
    So by following the law and riding in a manner that is safer for them and gives you as a driver more opportunity to overtake, you think they have no manners?
    Maybe you're one of those drivers that tries to put manners on them?
    As I previously said: you are the one with the problem.


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    #1433
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Their problem is they have no manners...

    Seriously? Are you on a wind up? You say you met 12+ cyclists once and they weren’t going fast enough for you so you had to endanger all 12+ of them and anyone coming from the other direction. Surely you must see that the lowest common denominator is you, your lack of manners, sense of entitlement and dangerous driving?


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    #1434
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    How do you manage when you come across other slow drivers? You you come into boards and whinge about being held up and that their mode of transport should be taxed more/banned or whatever your participation in this thread is demanding of cyclists?

    I said none of what you say, i actually said i do not agree with tax on bicycles.
    I do think insurance for large groups be a good idea but that may aiready be the case i have learned from this thread.
    I am a cyclist and i have my opinion, because your losing the game you call me a "whinge"
    I actually going on my bike this afternoon so i might crash into you...


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    #1435
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I said none of what you say, i actually said i do not agree with tax on bicycles.
    I do think insurance for large groups be a good idea but that may aiready be the case i have learned from this thread.
    I am a cyclist and i have my opinion, because your losing the game you call me a "whinge"
    I actually going on my bike this afternoon so i might crash into you...

    You are the only one that thinks you are in the middle of a game of Grand Theft Auto. It’s a high stake “game” you are playing with other peoples lives.

    Btw, I don’t believe you are a cyclist either. That is often rolled out when a motorist is being a tool on the roads. It doesn’t wash.


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    #1436
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    You are the only one that thinks you are in the middle of a game of Grand Theft Auto. It’s a high stake “game” you are playing with other peoples lives.

    Btw, I don’t believe you are a cyclist either. That is often rolled out when a motorist is being a tool on the roads. It doesn’t wash.

    Your seriously losing the plot when you call someone a "liar"
    The mods must be asleep...


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    #1437
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Your seriously losing the plot when you call someone a "liar"
    The mods must be asleep...

    Losing the plot, losing the game....can’t you counter points made rather than trying to keep score? What does you allegedly being held up for a few minutes by a gazillion cyclists have to do with the OP’s proposal of tax and insurance when it is you that is the danger on the road?


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    #1438
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    Losing the plot, losing the game....can’t you counter points made rather than trying to keep score? What does you allegedly being held up for a few minutes by a gazillion cyclists have to do with the OP’s proposal of tax and insurance when it is you that is the danger on the road?

    Go on have another swig of whatever your onnn...


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    #1439
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i drive around north county dublin quite a lot, and NCD is popular with cyclists. i don't ever recall having a problem with cyclists.

    The problem arises when every time you see one your blood pressure spikes and you start raving incoherantly about bloody cyclists. You then meet another lunatic who has the same affliction and after comparing your anecdotes of the time you were held up for 90 seconds and he was passed by a cyclist while at traffic lights you accept as fact that all cyclists are evil. One day you see a group of lads out for some exercise TOGETHER and your head explodes so you open a thread on boards and the rest is history.


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    #1440
    km991148
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Cilldara_2000 wrote: »
    Maybe we've got wires crossed here. I thought you were arguing for higher taxes on motorists. I'm not. We're already ripped off enough just for the privilege of getting to work etc.

    I'm not actively pushing for a hike on motortax, not really.

    But the thread is about taxing cyclists to somehow make things 'fair'.

    When you look at the numbers, and considering most cyclist also own cars, it's actually already unfair on the cyclist that chooses to do more by bike.

    Per km traveled the motorists without a bike is likely (some exceptions) paying less.

    Motoring is bloody expensive. True. But also the infrastructure costs alone are far more than motortax receipts generate (from what I understand from this thread) - which is often the first red alert for 'fairness'.

    But claiming cyclists are somehow taking something from motorists is ridiculous. Dublin, for example, would be even more screwed with heavy vehicular traffic if cyclists weren't around.

    There should be more threads showing appreciation for taking up the slack instead of nonsense about being held up on a Sunday morning and wanting to make cyclists pay even more.


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    #1441
    oisinog
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭oisinog


    maestroamado wrote: »
    That's a very bad example as the bikes deliberately take up the space instead of going to smaller groups when it is necessary.
    I would overtake the tractor if the situation was the same, i have no problem with people breaking the law, i do have a problem with people being dis-courteous towards other users...

    You do realise that if the cyclists went single file that doubles the lenght of the group and makes it much more difficult to overtake, you have gone from the lenght of one lorry to probably almost 3 when you leave the 1m distance to the person in front of you.


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