Cyclists, insurance and road tax

magicbastarder

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's not a choice for the people who wouldn't live in certain areas of Dublin so they chose to live in Clonee where they could afford a much bigger house

that's completely unfair. my house in phibsborough at one point could have sold for €450k+ in 2007/2008, and it was barely over 600 square foot.
it's not about affording 'a much bigger house', it's about affording a house which could also take two or three kids.

maestroamado

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I prefer not to have to drive behind a train of 80% empty cars when I'm driving in traffic for 60+ minutes and this is what's happening, but unless I get a big estate with private roads, I'd expect it's going to keep happening.

Same for you.

I totally agree with you but i think the reason for this is poor public transport.
I expect if we had especially better train network Ireland be a better place for us all...
I don't think this will likely happen this year so we have to work with what we have, cyclists have a big role in this and we all need to be responsible in this.
As both a cyclist and a motorist who breaks the speed limit pretty regular that's where i am at...
I do not like whingers but valid opinions are important...

km991148

maestroamado wrote: »

I did not say my journey was important or not as usually i am not in a hurry but prefer not have to drive behind a train of bicycles for 10+ mins and this is what's happening...

10mins.. Christ if only my daily commute was only 10mins slower due to the mess of vehicular traffic!

Cilldara_2000

flazio wrote: »

I've not gone through the previous 130 pages (on mobile site) of discussion, but I'm just curious what impact taxing and charging insurance for cyclists will have on children taking up cycling on public roads to school? Is this something that should be discouraged? Who would pay for their tax and insurance? Also what about greenways? Could we forego tax and insurance by buying a ticket at the former train stations to use the greenways?
How exactly does taxing cyclists make cycling a family friendly activity?

Taxing cycling is absolutely crazy. But make sure you don't point out that motorists pay a heck of a lot of tax. For some reason Boards.ie cyclists take this as an attack on cyclists.

Cilldara_2000

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Owning a car is a choice. You know the taxes before purchasing.

Yes people know the taxes before purchasing, but for many people owning a car is a necessity in most parts of the country. Particularly for people who had no choice but to move away from population centres well served by public transport due to being priced out.

And even then a lot of these population centres are only well served by public transport to the extent that one wants to travel to the city centres and locations on the routes to the city centres.

Cilldara_2000

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Taxing cycling is absolutely crazy. But make sure you don't point out that motorists pay a heck of a lot of tax. For some reason Boards.ie cyclists take this as an attack on cyclists.

I found the strawman argument if anyone's looking for it

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

many radar cameras do detect cyclists, but many don't also.

Ah .... maybe that's why the RSA want us all wearing Hi- viz! Those cameras are actually hi-viz detectors!

07Lapierre

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Taxing cycling is absolutely crazy. But make sure you don't point out that motorists pay a heck of a lot of tax. For some reason Boards.ie cyclists take this as an attack on cyclists.

The vast majority of adult cyclists ARE ALSO MOTORISTS!

07Lapierre

km991148 wrote: »

10mins.. Christ if only my daily commute was only 10mins slower due to the mess of vehicular traffic!

Don't think I've ever been held up for 10 minutes by cyclists. But then I know how to drive and I know and have the confidence/experience to overtake.

Cilldara_2000

Deleted User wrote: »

I found the strawman argument if anyone's looking for it

Not really. See post #1537 where I replied to the people who got the wrong end of stick. EG AndrewJRenko who alleged that I had "[expounded] anti-cyclist thoughts and proposals" when literally I had only said that motorists pay this much tax.

AndrewJRenko

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Taxing cycling is absolutely crazy. But make sure you don't point out that motorists pay a heck of a lot of tax. For some reason Boards.ie cyclists take this as an attack on cyclists.

Motorists pay nothing near covering the actual costs of motoring - just think of all the Garda time, the Courts time, the cost of the Road Safety Authority and the National Roads Authority, the health issues resulting from exhaust fumes, brake particles, tyre particles, the vast amounts of public space given over to free storage of private cars.

We've a long way to go.

maestroamado wrote: »

I totally agree with you but i think the reason for this is poor public transport.
I expect if we had especially better train network Ireland be a better place for us all...
I don't think this will likely happen this year so we have to work with what we have, cyclists have a big role in this and we all need to be responsible in this.
As both a cyclist and a motorist who breaks the speed limit pretty regular that's where i am at...
I do not like whingers but valid opinions are important...

What do you mean by 'be responsible'? Are you expecting people to pull over for you, or to plan their journeys around your needs?

micar

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Taxing cycling is absolutely crazy. But make sure you don't point out that motorists pay a heck of a lot of tax. For some reason Boards.ie cyclists take this as an attack on cyclists.

07Lapierre wrote: »

The vast majority of adult cyclists ARE ALSO MOTORISTS!

How many times does cilldara have to be told this?

Fighting Tao

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Taxing cycling is absolutely crazy. But make sure you don't point out that motorists pay a heck of a lot of tax. For some reason Boards.ie cyclists take this as an attack on cyclists.

Yes, I pay hell of a lot of tax for having a car, but why drag cyclists into that conversation and have a bitching session about cyclists?

Fighting Tao

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Yes people know the taxes before purchasing, but for many people owning a car is a necessity in most parts of the country. Particularly for people who had no choice but to move away from population centres well served by public transport due to being priced out.

And even then a lot of these population centres are only well served by public transport to the extent that one wants to travel to the city centres and locations on the routes to the city centres.

Hey, guess what! I am one of those people. I moved out of Dublin to a lane in the countryside. Car ownership is still a choice. How did people manage in the past without having at least a car per adult in the house?

beauf

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Taxing cycling is absolutely crazy. But make sure you don't point out that motorists pay a heck of a lot of tax. For some reason Boards.ie cyclists take this as an attack on cyclists.

Pedestrians who are neither car owner or cyclists also pay tax. Tax is irrelevant.

07Lapierre

micar wrote: »

How many times does cilldara have to be told this?

Also, what's the obsession with people,wanting others to pay tax? If people think that cyclists are using the roads "for free".... so what? Just sell your car, buy a bike (on the bike to work scheme and get tax BACK) and join the club?

km991148

07Lapierre wrote: »

Don't think I've ever been held up for 10 minutes by cyclists. But then I know how to drive and I know and have the confidence/experience to overtake.

Yeah I wasn't even focusing on that part tbh.

Total time held up averaged out on a per kilometre basis is way worse on a bike (being held up by vehicular traffic) than sitting in a car being held up by people cycling!

Cilldara_2000

beauf wrote: »

Pedestrians who are neither car owner or cyclists also pay tax. Tax is irrelevant.

You don't pay tax to walk. You don't pay tax to cycle.

Just in case anyone thinks that just pointing this out is now also an attack on pedestrians, I am not suggesting, proposing, expounding, or thinking that either pedestrians or cyclists should pay tax to walk or cycle.

And it sort of is relevant to the discussion because it was the suggestion in the OP.

In the mean time, there's absolutely no need for you lot to jump down my throat for pointing out how much taxes motorists already pay in response to someone who said that they should pay more.

I am digesting the report that mr potato head quoted from above.

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Yes, I pay hell of a lot of tax for having a car, but why drag cyclists into that conversation and have a bitching session about cyclists?

Ask the OP. I haven't bitched about anyone except those of you who have falsely alleged that I "want to tax people on bikes." I'm still waiting on your justification for this attack on me btw. :pac:

Fighting Tao

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Ask the OP. I haven't bitched about anyone except those of you who have falsely alleged that I "want to tax people on bikes." I'm still waiting on your justification for this attack on me btw. :pac:

Hmmm...why would you dip your toes in a conversation about taxing cyclists, with a moan about motor tax? Do you see how it doesn't add up? Get your own thread to moan about motor tax if that is all you are here for. :P

Cilldara_2000

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Hmmm...why would you dip your toes in a conversation about taxing cyclists, with a moan about motor tax? Do you see how it doesn't add up? Get your own thread to moan about motor tax if that is all you are here for. :P

Well I didn't think it would get people's backs up so much to state that "motorists pay in a huge amount to the general taxation pot" and outline just how much when someone else said "Roads are built and maintained out of the general taxation pot".

Although even if I had thought this I'd prolly have ploughed on anyway!

Pinch Flat

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Well I didn't think it would get people's backs up so much to state that "motorists pay in a huge amount to the general taxation pot" and outline just how much when someone else said "Roads are built and maintained out of the general taxation pot".

Although even if I had thought this I'd prolly have ploughed on anyway!

Just don't think of the roads as a private club funded by motor tax. You'll just hurt your head.

maestroamado

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Motorists pay nothing near covering the actual costs of motoring - just think of all the Garda time, the Courts time, the cost of the Road Safety Authority and the National Roads Authority, the health issues resulting from exhaust fumes, brake particles, tyre particles, the vast amounts of public space given over to free storage of private cars.

We've a long way to go.

What do you mean by 'be responsible'? Are you expecting people to pull over for you, or to plan their journeys around your needs?

I am not surprised with a comment like that coming from you, you have a lot of catching up to do to get to where i am at...

Seth Brundle

Been gone for a few hours (cooked dinner and cleaned up afterwards) and there are several pages of posts made in that time.
Which particular anti-cycling topic are we re-re-re-re-re-discussing now?

maestroamado

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Been gone for a few hours (cooked dinner and cleaned up afterwards) and there are several pages of posts made in that time.
Which particular anti-cycling topic are we re-re-re-re-re-discussing now?

We are starting on building a new train network now but it seems we want to keep the auld bike...

maestroamado

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's not a choice for the people who wouldn't live in certain areas of Dublin so they chose to live in Clonee where they could afford a much bigger house and there were no ruffians and now have to drive 2 hours a day to work and the city should be designed to accommodate them driving to work because of their choices, not the yuppie cyclists who actually live in the city.

I'm surprised you were not told this off-topic
What's a ruffian, i am sure they have special status or will have soon.

Personally i do not believe a person in Clonee should have to drive to work.
If there was a suitable rail network it should be more convenient for anyone with 20km of O'Connell St to travel by train into town. There is no design about any of out transport system that i can see.
Then there be enough space for the rest of the bikers like me...

mr potato head

maestroamado wrote: »

Personally i do not believe a person in Clonee should have to drive to work.
If there was a suitable rail network it should be more convenient for anyone with 20km of O'Connell St to travel by train into town. There is no design about any of out transport system that i can see....

Yea an integrated bus cycle and rail network should mean they no need to drive.

I know a few people who cycle into town from Dunboyne and Clonee, with an e-bike its no issue, but a mixed-mode option would be far more appealing to most.

At this stage, none of the active and public transport options should be designed in isolation.

beauf

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

You don't pay tax to walk. You don't pay tax to cycle.

Just in case anyone thinks that just pointing this out is now also an attack on pedestrians, I am not suggesting, proposing, expounding, or thinking that either pedestrians or cyclists should pay tax to walk or cycle.

And it sort of is relevant to the discussion because it was the suggestion in the OP.

In the mean time, there's absolutely no need for you lot to jump down my throat for pointing out how much taxes motorists already pay in response to someone who said that they should pay more.

I am digesting the report that mr potato head quoted from above.



Ask the OP. I haven't bitched about anyone except those of you who have falsely alleged that I "want to tax people on bikes." I'm still waiting on your justification for this attack on me btw. :pac:

Its not an attack. Its the whole tax thing is bogus argument.

You only pay a small tax to drive. You pay much more in buying a car.
But then you pay tax when you buy a bicycle. You have to look at the purpose of these taxes. Its to change consumer behavior and to create income for the state. Taxing cycling would not achieve these aims, as the objective is to encourage cyclists, not discourage them.

beauf

maestroamado wrote: »

I'm surprised you were not told this off-topic
What's a ruffian, i am sure they have special status or will have soon.

Personally i do not believe a person in Clonee should have to drive to work.
If there was a suitable rail network it should be more convenient for anyone with 20km of O'Connell St to travel by train into town. There is no design about any of out transport system that i can see.
Then there be enough space for the rest of the bikers like me...

There is a rail network within easy cycling distance of Clonee. If you wanted to do it you could, for very little effort. You could park and ride from Dunboyne either.

magicbastarder

a friend lived within a 5 or 10 minute cycle of the maynooth line (halfway between clonsilla and coolmine).
he decided to start cycling it. his bike was stolen on the very first day.

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

a friend lived within a 5 or 10 minute cycle of the maynooth line (halfway between clonsilla and coolmine).
he decided to start cycling it. his bike was stolen on the very first day.

There are bike lockers at many of the stations now.

Or use a folding bike. (finding space on the train will be the issue though). I stopped using my folding bikes due to the overcrowding.